Yes, I agree, that was a poor choice of words. I don't think Calvin claimed to be a prophet or that his followers claimed that either. Forgive me for this!
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No Calvinists nor Calvin ever claimed to be a prophet. Just another cheap shot or lack of understanding.
No problem.Yes, I agree, that was a poor choice of words. I don't think Calvin claimed to be a prophet or that his followers claimed that either. Forgive me for this!
I am not stirring the pot! I have said plainly that I think Calvinism, the tulip, is not true Christian doctrine, but a perversion of it. I am demonstrating it by pointing out the inconsistencies between the rhetoric and the stated doctrines. Those who have commented have accused me of misrepresentation but none has demonstrated it.
Are we required to have a positive view of the TULIP before we can comment on this site?
I do not mean to come across as obnoxious and if I do, I apologize for that but people with whom one has strong disagreements rarely think you are nice!
I really think that most of you are not educated enough in your doctrines to defend them and I think some of you are surprised when I tell you what they are! For instance, I have no evidence that you are familiar with them! So far, you have just been a critisizer.
I am not buying that I have made clear mis-statements until you give examples and declare how I have misrepresented you.
The simplicity of salvation is really what I think Calvin and all his prophets rebelled against. They could just not believe that it is by simple faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and nothing else and it is for everyone who will simply believe. I think they probably thought it must be more complicated than that so they set out to create a system that would be more worthy of something so grand. TULIP is the result!
Rep Daddy, CygnusX1, nobdysfool, Behe's Boy, MamaZ, anyone else bearing the Calvinist tag:I think you are a Calvinist but I do not know if you really understand your own teaching.
I have over 5000 posts here from a Calvinist's perspective.You have presented very little of your actual doctrines for me to comment on. I certainly do not desire to enter in a discussion on philosophy with you. My faith is not based on philosophical musings, it is based on the words of scripture. The words of scripture concerning who can be saved and how they are saved are so simple, I do not know how anyone can miss it.
Well your thoughts are fantasies of your own construction.The simplicity of salvation is really what I think Calvin and all his prophets rebelled against.
Read something historical. Then you'll discover so much of your view is tilting at windmills. The Man of La Mancha should really encounter the machinery of the Netherlands as it is, rather than as a group of monsters. Otherwise the conversation is comical.They could just not believe that it is by simple faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and nothing else and it is for everyone who will simply believe. I think they probably thought it must be more complicated than that so they set out to create a system that would be more worthy of something so grand. TULIP is the result!
Rep Daddy, CygnusX1, nobdysfool, Behe's Boy, MamaZ, anyone else bearing the Calvinist tag:
Would anyone else who considers themselves Calvinistic take issue or accept my claim [up to now] to being a Calvinist, particularly as to soteriology? Please, respond for JDS to see.
For example it has been told to you that Calvinists do not try to figure out who is elect and who isn't - but you refuse to hear or understand this.
If you read through my post you will find me agreeing with your not knowing. I have stated to one of you that the one who claims his election cannot even be sure because he cannot find one promise from God that he is. You must have God saying you are elect or there is a possibility that you are deceived into thinking you are elect when you are not.
Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.....
Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
You must not trust your heart. The word of God is the only thing that is sure!
Any Bible statement that JDS personally is right and not deceived by misinterpretation?
Goose <> Gander
The ambiguities in such a question prevent people from saying much meaningful in answer to it.If you read through my post you will find me agreeing with your not knowing. I have stated to one of you that the one who claims his election cannot even be sure because he cannot find one promise from God that he is. You must have God saying you are elect or there is a possibility that you are deceived into thinking you are elect when you are not.
If your heart is indwelt by the Spirit of the God of the Universe?You must not trust your heart. The word of God is the only thing that is sure!
If you read through my post you will find me agreeing with your not knowing. I have stated to one of you that the one who claims his election cannot even be sure because he cannot find one promise from God that he is. You must have God saying you are elect or there is a possibility that you are deceived into thinking you are elect when you are not.
Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.....
Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
You must not trust your heart. The word of God is the only thing that is sure!
The man said he was elect
At least he was the last time he checked
He said There is no need to fear
All I must do is persevere
I was chosen I can not die
And my election is the reason why
God promised me deliverance from the curse
But he did not promise in a verse
This salvation is for just a few
And I can't be sure it is meant for you
But I am glad I am elect
But, sad, I have no way to check
Any Bible statement that JDS personally is right and not deceived by misinterpretation?
In terms of responding spiritually to God, that's accurate. But it's already blown by a critical distinction without comment.The Calvinist posters on these forums comment on what they learn from their source materials and pastors and churches. The TULIP is clear cut. For instance the T is for total depravity which teaches that a man dead in trespasses and sins is totally unable to respond to God. He must be regenerated (given life, quickened) in order to be saved.
Wrong. There's actually no determination how many are elect. God regenerates a few monergistically -- by Himself alone. The Cross is means for establishing the covenant of redemption, which includes regeneration. I don't think I'd say that the Cross is the means of regeneration, it is the means of accomplishing redemption as a whole.God has a few elect that he alone will regenerate and the cross is the means by which he regenerates them.
Ambiguous terminology. "will" future? "will" desire? He does actually regenerate no one other than He elects (ie "chooses") to regenerate. But that's ... tautological.He will regenerate no others.
... which I don't ...Now, if you agree that I understand this correctly,
It's quite consistent. The accused is presented with his charges, even if he has no means of escaping the verdict. The accused is presented with his options, even if it's a foregone conclusion which path he will take.why would you say that "ALL ARE INVITED TO COME TO THE CROSS"? Who is inviting them and why? Are the evangelists that God sends out speaking for God, or not? I am telling you that this makes no sense. The statement is not consistent with the "T' or tulip.
How is it easy "to figure that all can be saved"? It's always a good idea to describe your reasoning.Here is one. You would probably say no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws him and whosoever cometh to him he will in no way cast out and so if one is welcome at the cross and comes, it is because the Father has drawn him and will not be turned away. If "all" are welcome at the cross, then it is not hard to figure that all can be saved!
The simplicity of salvation is really what I think Calvin and all his prophets rebelled against. They could just not believe that it is by simple faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and nothing else and it is for everyone who will simply believe. I think they probably thought it must be more complicated than that so they set out to create a system that would be more worthy of something so grand. TULIP is the result!
Apparently not bro.... He must use the one and only VWT of the Bible.
What if a man who is elect and perseveres for 40 years and then falls away from the faith? What if he makes the case many times during those years before he falls away that he is elect? Will it be you that tells him he was never elect because he did not persevere or will it be him who admits he was obviously never elect?
If the man did not persevere he could not be elect, could he? The P is the last petal in the TULIP. It is not negotiable, is it?
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