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Linet Kihonge

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I want to ask these early churches something:

The 1st Century Apostles were - most of them Jews. So they faced a lot of persecution from the Judaism Jew population. IOW Judaism had a very strong religious presence even in ROME considering they considered "Christians" as another sect if not something heretical in as far as observing the Mosaic law and halakha. Therefore, the Christian population was a "minority" in Israel and even if the Church with a reputable trace of its successors can "brag" of its authenticity it can't be 100% clear how much of Judaism infiltrated its practice.

Some sections of Judaism held in esteem the praying to departed Rabii or anyone thought "Holy" in their culture. Also the first prayers to departed Saints were for the Martyrs. There's coincidental proof that Judaism practice of praying to the departed could have influenced the traditions held in Esteem by CC and the Orthodox. Also, they prayed to Angelic Beings.

It shouldn't be dismissed that not all apostles who followed Christ had dropped the OT traditions including Peter who after a vision finally was delivered from foods the OT Laws considered unclean. Therefore, it became a little bit difficult to convert Judaism to Christianity than converting a gentile to the same religion. In other words, there's a truth behind Judaism in the first early church. So it wouldn't make sense that all the traditions practiced today came out of the blues, there was something that Mosaic law/Judaism considered as inherent to the Hebrews.

The very first Jew converts (after the first apostles) to receive the Gospel of the Lord played a dormant role in spreading it when compared to the Gentiles. In fact, there is a very weak trace of the first Jew converts taking any leadership roles in the early church and stunningly, the Christian-Jews only became active in the spreading of the gospel in the mid-20th century.

I would like to rebuke the first early churches for this... Most of the early successors may have applied Culture into Christianity and not Christianity into Culture. Assuming, I came from a culture that offered bulls to a god Tami for babies and fruitfulness. So along the way I met someone who told me about this Jesus who was the "Bull" and his sacrifice was enough to open doors to fruitfulness not only in children but also in everything else I needed. So I will apply Christianity in the Culture by abandoning the tradition, taking up the Gospel and offering up myself to God preaching that Jesus was indeed the "Bull" offered to give access to everything nice.

On the other hand, I listen to this man and instead of abandoning the tradition altogether I decide to apply the culture into the Gospel. So instead, I end up offering bulls every year but to God and in place of a god Tami I curve out a small image of Jesus that I will be praying to everyday for various things I need in life.

So How reformed would I be if I maintained traditions but in the name of GOD??? :neutral:
 

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I want to ask these early churches something:

The 1st Century Apostles were - most of them Jews. So they faced a lot of persecution from the Judaism Jew population. IOW Judaism had a very strong religious presence even in ROME considering they considered "Christians" as another sect if not something heretical in as far as observing the Mosaic law and halakha. Therefore, the Christian population was a "minority" in Israel and even if the Church with a reputable trace of its successors can "brag" of its authenticity it can't be 100% clear how much of Judaism infiltrated its practice.

Some sections of Judaism held in esteem the praying to departed Rabii or anyone thought "Holy" in their culture. Also the first prayers to departed Saints were for the Martyrs. There's coincidental proof that Judaism practice of praying to the departed could have influenced the traditions held in Esteem by CC and the Orthodox. Also, they prayed to Angelic Beings.

It shouldn't be dismissed that not all apostles who followed Christ had dropped the OT traditions including Peter who after a vision finally was delivered from foods the OT Laws considered unclean. Therefore, it became a little bit difficult to convert Judaism to Christianity than converting a gentile to the same religion. In other words, there's a truth behind Judaism in the first early church. So it wouldn't make sense that all the traditions practiced today came out of the blues, there was something that Mosaic law/Judaism considered as inherent to the Hebrews.

The very first Jew converts (after the first apostles) to receive the Gospel of the Lord played a dormant role in spreading it when compared to the Gentiles. In fact, there is a very weak trace of the first Jew converts taking any leadership roles in the early church and stunningly, the Christian-Jews only became active in the spreading of the gospel in the mid-20th century.

I would like to rebuke the first early churches for this... Most of the early successors may have applied Culture into Christianity and not Christianity into Culture. Assuming, I came from a culture that offered bulls to a god Tami for babies and fruitfulness. So along the way I met someone who told me about this Jesus who was the "Bull" and his sacrifice was enough to open doors to fruitfulness not only in children but also in everything else I needed. So I will apply Christianity in the Culture by abandoning the tradition, taking up the Gospel and offering up myself to God preaching that Jesus was indeed the "Bull" offered to give access to everything nice.

On the other hand, I listen to this man and instead of abandoning the tradition altogether I decide to apply the culture into the Gospel. So instead, I end up offering bulls every year but to God and in place of a god Tami I curve out a small image of Jesus that I will be praying to everyday for various things I need in life.

So How reformed would I be if I maintained traditions but in the name of GOD??? :neutral:

the immediate early church was built up of Jewish born believers but biblical accounts show us that the gospel was spread quickly into non-jewish backgrounds with most letters written to Greek background believers.

Paul shows us the method to do this in 1 Corinthians 9 saying to the weak we must become as the weak so that we may minister to the weak or we must become all things to all people so that we may save some (paraphrase from memory). I believe Paul's chief point is that in order for people to understand the gospel we must contextualise it within a culture in order for it to have meaning which I think is what you are getting at.

There is a passage in Acts that shows this happening in Act 17. Paul is speaking to the people of Athens and uses an idol inscribed to the unknown God to point to Christ. Although he makes it clear that God is not an idol that lives in a temple or is made by human hands, rather then offending them he shows them that their attempts to seek God is part of their journey to know the true God.

Contextualization is at the heart of the gospel as God has made a way for humans to come to know him by becoming human himself as a baby and living and dying as a human. So we too should present the gospel to others in cultural forms so it can be truly grasped not just with book knowledge but being able to embrace it as something always known only rediscovered.

Your example of the bull is called a redemptive analogy first coined by a man named Don Richardson. He believes within all cultures lies ingrained values and practises that can be used to show Christ. When these practises and values are understood through the lens of Christ it transforms the meaning to something that truly can redeem because they no longer are blind and hopeless but have rich meaning and new hope through Christ.

It can get messy but we should worry less about how normal it looks and more about introducing Jesus to the conversation. If Jesus is truly embraced he'll sort out the details

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
 
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...So instead, I end up offering bulls every year but to God and in place of a god Tami I curve out a small image of Jesus that I will be praying to everyday for various things I need in life.

So How reformed would I be if I maintained traditions but in the name of GOD??? :neutral:

I think that would not be good, because:


'You shall make for yourselves no idols, neither shall you raise up an engraved image or a pillar, neither shall you place any figured stone in your land, to bow down to it: for I am Yahweh your God.

Lev. 26:1

Jews have had many bad habits; I recommend that you don’t make the same mistakes.
 
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nick notes

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I want to ask these early churches something:
So How reformed would I be if I maintained traditions but in the name of GOD??? :neutral:

Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe



Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

IMO the early church tought of themselves as a new sect of Judaism.
 
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Linet Kihonge

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Hi, I still believe all the things that were declared sinful in the Laws of Moses are still sinful to date including sins that defiled the "Temple of God" or our bodies. The only thing that we need to ensure is that we be repentant of them (in place of sacrificed animals) and for a non-believer to believe in the LORD Jesus. Therefore, it would still be important to observe the laws of Moses lest we fall short of God's glory all the time. On the other hand, there are traditions that the early churches adopted that are no longer useful after the LORD declaring us as his living sacrifices and his new temple. The use of burnt incense, oil, water and others that were consistent with the traditions of the Lord's Temples back then. :/
 
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Hi, I still believe all the things that were declared sinful in the Laws of Moses are still sinful to date including sins that defiled the "Temple of God" or our bodies. The only thing that we need to ensure is that we be repentant of them (in place of sacrificed animals) and for a non-believer to believe in the LORD Jesus. Therefore, it would still be important to observe the laws of Moses lest we fall short of God's glory all the time. On the other hand, there are traditions that the early churches adopted that are no longer useful after the LORD declaring us as his living sacrifices and his new temple. The use of burnt incense, oil, water and others that were consistent with the traditions of the Lord's Temples back then. :/

Thank you for responding to my posts.
You are correct that since the Temple is not standing we no longer have animal sacrifices or any of the stuff associated with the Temple
 
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When we read the letters to the churches in Revelation Yeshua mentions his displeasure at some who are Christians but also hold to the traditions of the Nicolaitans. Apparently they liked to mix the old ways with the new religion.
The Biggest Decision of Your Life.

Have you chosen the right church? The true Church? Jesus’ Church?

They say there are about seven billion people in the world; but only about one billion people who identify themselves as Christians. Have the Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, and other non-Christians chosen the wrong church damning themselves for all eternity?

But even among Christians, some are Catholic, and some are Protestant. Which group is saved and which is damned? Some might argue that Jesus chose the Catholic Church as his church.
“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.” Matthew 16:18
But Protestants argue that the Roman Catholic Church is corrupt and Protestantism is the “right way.”

Jesus gave us some clues that only a few would find it.
““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”” Matthew 7:13-14

There are literally thousands of Christian denominations, sects, cults, etc.
Is yours the winner or is yours among the myriad of losers?

Does the right church believe in a Trinity? Or not? Which one is right?
Trinitarians are more numerous. Are they on the broad way?

Does your church observe the Sunday Sabbath or the Seventh Day Sabbath?
Sunday is more popular…is this the broad way to destruction?

Does your church have infant baptism or adult baptism? Immersion or Sprinkle?

Does your church accept gays or not? Gay pastors? Gay marriage?

Are you rich? Maybe you are poor by US standards but rich by world standards?
“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:24

If you choose the wrong Church are you damned?
Is it possible you have chosen the wrong church?
 
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Shempster

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The Biggest Decision of Your Life.

Have you chosen the right church? The true Church? Jesus’ Church?

They say there are about seven billion people in the world; but only about one billion people who identify themselves as Christians. Have the Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, and other non-Christians chosen the wrong church damning themselves for all eternity?

But even among Christians, some are Catholic, and some are Protestant. Which group is saved and which is damned? Some might argue that Jesus chose the Catholic Church as his church.
“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.” Matthew 16:18
But Protestants argue that the Roman Catholic Church is corrupt and Protestantism is the “right way.”

Jesus gave us some clues that only a few would find it.
““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”” Matthew 7:13-14

There are literally thousands of Christian denominations, sects, cults, etc.
Is yours the winner or is yours among the myriad of losers?

Does the right church believe in a Trinity? Or not? Which one is right?
Trinitarians are more numerous. Are they on the broad way?

Does your church observe the Sunday Sabbath or the Seventh Day Sabbath?
Sunday is more popular…is this the broad way to destruction?

Does your church have infant baptism or adult baptism? Immersion or Sprinkle?

Does your church accept gays or not? Gay pastors? Gay marriage?

Are you rich? Maybe you are poor by US standards but rich by world standards?
“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:24

If you choose the wrong Church are you damned?
Is it possible you have chosen the wrong church?

I find it amazing that practically nobody asks questions like these.
If you sit in church on Sunday and hear doctrines with holes in the theories then you are not alone. Almost though..lol...
Many modern teachings leave huge questions unanswered. Well, they do answer questions but only leave you with more questions.

Yes, my friend, there IS something wrong with the modern church teachings. I know what it is but there would be about zero agreement among believers if I show you so I just keep it to myself.
All I can say is that you are on the right track asking questions like these. Like a miner digging for gold you have to spend much time in seeking. For some reason the key to discovery seems to be TIME spent searching. I can guarantee you if you spend little time looking then its unlikely you will find the treasure.
I will give you a hint about it in your search and something about the bible..... The truth will not be found simply by understanding the printed words...it will go much deeper.
(on the bible text)....the facts are found in the black words
the hints are found in the red words
but the TRUTH of the mystery is found in the white spaces

Blessings! Keep searching.
 
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I find it amazing that practically nobody asks questions like these.
If you sit in church on Sunday and hear doctrines with holes in the theories then you are not alone. Almost though..lol...
Many modern teachings leave huge questions unanswered. Well, they do answer questions but only leave you with more questions.

Yes, my friend, there IS something wrong with the modern church teachings. I know what it is but there would be about zero agreement among believers if I show you so I just keep it to myself.
All I can say is that you are on the right track asking questions like these. Like a miner digging for gold you have to spend much time in seeking. For some reason the key to discovery seems to be TIME spent searching. I can guarantee you if you spend little time looking then its unlikely you will find the treasure.
I will give you a hint about it in your search and something about the bible..... The truth will not be found simply by understanding the printed words...it will go much deeper.
(on the bible text)....the facts are found in the black words
the hints are found in the red words
but the TRUTH of the mystery is found in the white spaces

Blessings! Keep searching.

Thank you so much for your wisdom and understanding.
Years ago my wife and I used to attend many religious conventions around the country. We were both extremely motivated Bible readers. We got to discuss the Bible with convention attendees and we were always surprised to discover so many people who seemed on fire for Jesus but yet had a kindergarten knowledge of the Bible. My belief is that you can never find the true church unless you have an accurate knowledge of Scripture to properly judge what you are being told by church leaders.
I wish you well in your journey.
 
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