The Truth About Islam

[Enochcalling]

And second of all, you read the whole page next time:

\Or"tho*dox\, a. [L. orthodoxus, Gr. 'orqo`doxos; 'orqo`s right, true + do`xa opinion (belief), dokei^n to think, seem;
cf. F. orthodoxe. See {Ortho-}, {Dogma}.]
1. Sound in opinion or doctrine, especially in religious
doctrine; hence, holding the Christian faith; believing
the doctrines taught in the Scriptures; -- opposed to
{heretical} and {heterodox}; as, an orthodox Christian.

You are using the common English definition, but there is more history to the word itself.




Since your definition of orthodox is not correct in the first place, the rest of this is not required to respond to. The point of Orthodoxy is that the worship won't change and should not change and the church keeps the traidition of the apostles. They succeeded in this.



Ok more questions. Did you write the piece about Constantine in your post #30? Or quoted some other source? I am not really interested in the minute year conversion as God I believe is out of human limits and time, and His kingdom is full of mysteries, His heaven doesn't have years in eternity.

I see you have been ordained to determine what definition is the proper way the world must attain too. I refuse to debate with you over the definition of the word Orthodox or any other word because you choose to use a different dictionary than me. You want to knit-pick me on inferior points thats your choice but I have better things to do with my life.
As far as the history I quoted about Constantine you can find that on many a web page with the same dates that I posted. So if you want to bash me for that too go ahead. It appears to me you only have one thing on your agenda and that its "Your Way or the Highway" Excuse me but I have a bus to catch I think I am on the wrong highway.

 

[arunma]

I don't understand why hindus on this forum praise each other so much for the fellow hindu reply and remarks?

seems like it's very common that instead of letting others praise the replied made by hindus on this forum I see that hindus themselves praise each other - WHY?

Do you guys support each others in your sins too?

In my time here, I've seen Hindus resort to lies, deception, insulting remarks, and other such things in which no other religious group would partake. As you notice, Satay praises even MahaSudarshanChakra's insults. What sort of religion encourages sin? I would say that Hinduism does, but my experiences with Hindus may not be representative of all of them.

 

[satay]

In my time here, I've seen Hindus resort to lies, deception, insulting remarks, and other such things in which no other religious group would partake. As you notice, Satay praises even MahaSudarshanChakra's insults. What sort of religion encourages sin? I would say that Hinduism does, but my experiences with Hindus may not be representative of all of them.

Again, I ask you to define "sin" your muslim brethern here was unable to define it.

satay

 

[NickD]

I don't understand why hindus on this forum praise each other so much for the fellow hindu reply and remarks?

seems like it's very common that instead of letting others praise the replied made by hindus on this forum I see that hindus themselves praise each other - WHY?

Do you guys support each others in your sins too?

You are not alone, I noticed the same thing too.

In my opinion, that's a professional way of attrackting non-Hindus on this forum. They also have a tendency of attacking one person like a mob!

 

[satay]

You are not alone, I noticed the same thing too.

In my opinion, that's a professional way of attrackting non-Hindus on this forum. They also have a tendency of attacking one person like a mob!

and you have a tendency to run like a rabbit when the questions get tough.

satay

 

[Enochcalling]

You are not alone, I noticed the same thing too.

In my opinion, that's a professional way of attrackting non-Hindus on this forum. They also have a tendency of attacking one person like a mob!

and you have a tendency to run like a rabbit when the questions get tough.

satay

One more warning to this thread that I stated earlier. This thread is entitled The Truth About Islam. Which means it must pretain to the subject of Islam either for or against or indifferent.It is not about Hindu's, Buddhists etc. etc. If you continue to go Off Topic in this thread I will ask the Moderators to close it. OK????

 

[Enochcalling]

It's interesting to me that "Enoch rising" posts an evangelical article biased against Islam and then goes on to champion reincarnation?!


- Art

I didn't "Champion" reincarnation. I said that I am curious if rev. 11 is referring to actual two witnesses that will walk on this earth rather than the symbolic concept as seen by Catholics and other various Conservative Christians. Now if that is true the only way they can die they must be reborn as in a physical body. So??? if reincarnation is going to happen to them maybe we all have been reincarnating all along. Thats all just a curiousity killed the cat scenerio. Please don't spin on my quotes.
I know the scripture Constantine and his clones allowed for mankind to read didn't include pro reincarnation but I am planning on looking into the "banned books" by the "Great Emperor Constantine." Remember I don't share the same "Orthodox" views as some of you do.

 

[Shy21]

Again, I ask you to define "sin" your muslim brethern here was unable to define it.

satay

He did define sin in one of his post. He also posted another post saying he define sin. He didnt define evil....he told you to define that one.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Eh I missed out alot on this thread, so here are go :

For the Muslims: Do you all believe that Jesus will come back and marry or has he already did this?

Not all muslims believe this and scholars do not have an agreed consensus on this belief.

I personally do not believe in a literal second return of the son of Maryam, and no the Quran does not advocate such a return.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

O boy ! Another one of these long paste and copy OPs

Through his (Muhammad) conversations with them, he picked up bits and pieces of both Judaism and Christianity.

One thing Christians like to do when talking about other faiths historical background they tend to throw much of their own speculative matters

His life was radically changed at age 25 when he met a wealthy widow 40 years old who fell in love with him. Their marriage enabled Muhammad to live a life of leisure from that point on.

There is no source that says he lived a life of leisure, again this is speculation. This is not the modern world of men nor the west when men marry women they bleed them dry. This was not the character of our prophet, he was more inclined to the poor and lived a poor life after his prophethood when he was offered the world and even when he established Islam, bi'idhnillah, in the region.


Even after he married mother Khadijah (rah) he still maintained his same employment status with her, nothing changed. Also when the Prophet married Khadijah he gave her 20 camels as dowery. This is not the status of a poor person to allude our prophet was dependant on her wealth to do thing.

Fifteen years after his marriage, at age 40, Muhammad had a visitation from a spirit. Supposedly, this spirit told him that he was called of God to be a “prophet” and an “apostle.” It is in­teresting to note that there was no tradition in Arabian religions of either prophets or apostles. These terms were obviously used by Muhammad to appeal to Jews and Christians.

False, the Arabs even though most of the were pagans traced their associated linage to Abraham and Ismael whom they believe were prophets of G-d.

Muhammad continued to have spirit visitations. They would throw him into a trance, and his utterances during the trances were written down by scribes. These ethereal statements became the Koran, but they were not compiled until after Muhammad’s death.

It was the written text that was not physically compiled until after he was taken away. The Oral text was already compiled in order the way the prophet recited it.

When the compilation was made, the utterances were not organized either chronologically or by subject matter. The result was a jumble of disorganized and often incoherent sayings which are frequently contradictory.

according to your understanding which lacked in understanding the purpose behind it.

For example, the Koran1 gives four conflicting accounts of Muhammad’s call to be a prophet [the word, Sura, means chapter]:

lets see what you got for us:

1. Suras 53 and 81 — God, or Allah as he is called in Arabic, personally appeared to Muhammad.

First of all that was not Alllaah he saw, and you cannot see Alllaah, it was Angel Jabreel in his true form that our prophet saw

2. Suras 16 and 26 — The call was from the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is not that to which Christians understand it. The Holy Spirit is the honorable title of Angel Jabreel.

3. Sura 15 — Angels issued the call.

Eh, it says no such thing to that of your subject.

4. Sura 2 — Gabriel was the one who appeared to him.

Ibid

At the time Muhammad received his initial visitation, there were over 300 gods being worshiped in Mecca by pilgrims who came there each year to pray at the Ka’aba, a small cubic building that housed a black meteorite and effigies of the various gods. One of those gods was Allah, the moon god.

Incorrect, there was no idol called Allah. The moon good idol at teh Ka'abah was called Hubul and called by other names such as Sin and Nanna through out different parts of Arabia.

Hubul the moon god was the son of another idol called Uzza which according the pagans was one of the daughters of Alllaah.

Muhammad decided to proclaim that there was only one god — and he selected Allah as that god. That’s the reason the crescent moon became the symbol of Islam. Muhammad also proclaimed that he was the prophet of Allah.

Crescent moon did not become a symbol of Islam until after the Ottoman empire which was originally a turkish symbol http://www.fotw.net/flags/islam.html and had nothing to do with the moon god Hubul/Sin/Nanna

The original symbol of Islam is what is seen as my avatar, and what is now called the Saudi flag that made an inovation of a sword.

I am going to stop here cause I havent even reached half way through his article and already he is in gross error. In times like this I would crumble this up and toss it to the garbage.

 

[Montalban]

Again, I ask you to define "sin" your muslim brethern here was unable to define it.

satay

Again I ask you to define define.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I see you have been ordained to determine what definition is the proper way the world must attain too.

Yes because Orthodox church doesn't use that generic definition and IT DOES NOT define Orthodox church, I brought up the the meaning Orthodox church has been known to use and you say no they don't mean that.

I refuse to debate with you over the definition of the word Orthodox or any other word because you choose to use a different dictionary than me.

I used your own dictionary, I as a matter of fact, I, unlike you, picked the FIRST common definition available there which the word actually means. Not what I like it to mean.

You want to knit-pick me on inferior points thats your choice but I have better things to do with my life.

Whatever dude. One of the better things you can do with your life, would be not coming here and try to bash islam and then sell a false version Christianity along with it. If you would argue against Islam, you would need a steady and stable ground such as holy Scriptures, not apocryphal texts.

As far as the history I quoted about Constantine you can find that on many a web page with the same dates that I posted. So if you want to bash me for that too go ahead. It appears to me you only have one thing on your agenda and that its "Your Way or the Highway"

I am sorry I am not interested in all this whining. I asked you a simple question, by forum rules you are bound to quote your source. Yet you do not. I found your source, it is even same to the font color and size, yet you don't admit it. I care less about their agenda I must say, but they are not Christians.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

This thread is entitled The Truth About Islam.

Which you carefully insert heretic theology in it, and market it.

If you continue to go Off Topic in this thread I will ask the Moderators to close it. OK????

You might as well because you are following false theology, according to this forums standards you are not considered a Christian, and this is a conclusion based upon the websites you support.

I know the scripture Constantine and his clones allowed for mankind to read didn't include pro reincarnation but I am planning on looking into the "banned books" by the "Great Emperor Constantine."

Those books WERE NOT considered Scripture in the first place let alone they were banned to enter the cannon. Do you have your own invented cannon today? Because it was those clowns who made sure we get the original and authentic teachings which were tracked back to Apostles not the heretical mix you defend here.

 

[Enochcalling]

The only thing I regret about this thread is that I do believe I might have posted it in the wrong forum. I apology for that but not my opinions. I started another post in Christian Persecution and may also post it in a debate forum if I am allowed? I further explained how I stand on certain issues. Your comments are appreciated. Its now entitled Christ vs. Mohammed.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2231798-christ-vs-mohammed.html#post19320003

 

[Montalban]

Eh I missed out alot on this thread, so here are go :

Not all muslims believe this and scholars do not have an agreed consensus on this belief.

I personally do not believe in a literal second return of the son of Maryam, and no the Quran does not advocate such a return.

So the Koran's not clear on this matter?

 

[Montalban]

You are not alone, I noticed the same thing too.

In my opinion, that's a professional way of attrackting non-Hindus on this forum. They also have a tendency of attacking one person like a mob!

I've noticed both these points.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

The only thing I regret about this thread is that I do believe I might have posted it in the wrong forum. I apology for that but not my opinions. I started another post in Christian Persecution and may also post it in a debate forum if I am allowed? I further explained how I stand on certain issues. Your comments are appreciated. Its now entitled Christ vs. Mohammed.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2231798-christ-vs-mohammed.html#post19320003

You need to relax and start your research. Think about if for a second "If I share a good thing done by Prophet Muhammad (SAW) - would you resist it by saying well Prophet Muhammad (SAW) have done this and this...

guess what that's the problem neither Jesus (AS) nor any Prophet ever taught believers to show superiority except spreading what they have been appointed to do by their Creator.

By saying Jesus (AS) VS Muhammad (SAW) you are gaining nothing because God exalted whom He Pleased and we believers do not discriminate any of them.

Descendants of Prophet Ibrahim including Musa, Isa and Muhammad

6:83
This was the argument which We furnished Ibrahim (Abraham) against his people. We exalt in ranks whom We please; surely your Rabb is Wise, Aware.

6:84
We gave him Ishaq (Isaac) and Ya'qoob (Jacob) and guided them all as We guided Nuh (Noah) before them, and among his descendants were Dawood (David), Sulaiman (Solomon), Ayub (Job), Yusuf (Joseph), Musa (Moses) and Haroon (Aaron); thus do We reward those who do good to others.

6:85
Other descendants include Zakariya, Yahya (John), Isa (Jesus), and Ilyas (Elias); all of them were righteous;

6:86
and Isma`il (Ishmael), Al-Yas'a (Elisha), Yunus (Jonah) and Lut (Lot). We exalted every one of them over the worlds

6:87
as We exalted some of their forefather, their children and their brothers. We chose them for Our service and guided them to the Right Way.

6:88
This is the guidance from Allah; He bestows it upon whom He pleases of His devotees. If they had committed shirk (worshiped anyone else besides Allah) all their deeds would have become void.

6:89
Such were the people to whom We gave the Book, wisdom and Prophethood. Now if these people deny this guidance, it does not matter; We would bestow this guidance upon other people who would not disbelieve.

6:90
O Muhammad, those were the people who were rightly guided by Allah, therefore, follow their guidance and tell these people: "I am not asking you any compensation for this work of delivering the Message to you, this message is nothing but a reminder to all the worlds."


Order of Allah to believe in all Prophets without discrimination

2:136
Say: "We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us; and what was revealed to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qoob (Jacob) and their descendants, and that which was given to Musa (Moses), Isa (Jesus) and other Prophets from their Rabb. We do not discriminate any of them, and to Allah we have surrendered ourselves (in Islam)."

True belief of Prophets and Muslims and Believer's supplication

2:285
The Rasool has believed in the Guidance which has been revealed to him from his Rabb and so do the Believers. They all believe in Allah, His angels, His books and His Rasools. They say we do not discriminate against anyone of His Rasools. And they say: "We hear and we obey. Grant us Your forgiveness, O Rabb; to You we shall all return."

 

[arunma]

I've noticed both these points.

I knew that your obsession with Islam hadn't blinded you regarding the idolatry of Hinduism!

 

[Montalban]

I knew that your obsession with Islam hadn't blinded you regarding the idolatry of Hinduism!

A few points, even if, as I'm sure, you say it in jest - but some take these things you say seriously; owing to the calibre of your arguments...

I am not obsessed with Islam. It might seem that way because people only see me posting here on this forum. I am a member of other foruma at the same time. (I'm not talking about other threads within this forum, but totally different debate sites)

I've debated Catholics on one. And I've debated a charismatic on another, and with secularists on another (although I've discontinued these debates, I've done it concurrently with debating Islam here). The only reason I continue here is because I've spread myself out too thin - and I actually am starting to get out more often

But yes I've noticed that one makes a comment on Hinduism and bam, there's a whole posse of them arguing. And the mutual back-slapping never ceases.

 

[Montalban]

You need to relax and start your research.

So much room for a comeback -the irony of it!

By saying Jesus (AS) VS Muhammad (SAW) you are gaining nothing because God exalted whom He Pleased and we believers do not discriminate any of them.

One of the many contradictions in the Koran...
2:285
We make no distinction between any of His messengers.
2:253
Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree.