The true context of science. It is just a model, get over it.

[Justatruthseeker]

Well, nature fits the elegant model extremely well (that's not quite so true outside physics).

How’s that?

They had to add 95% unknown ad-hoc theory to make it fit even a semblance of reality when not a speck of that Fairie Dust is needed where it fits the model extremely well (inside the solar system and tested to a 99.8% accuracy).

Outside the solar system the model didn’t fit at all and so had 95% of it bandaided.......

 

[Justatruthseeker]

The answer is not absolutely nothing, the answer is absolutely everything.

The Technology we have today and that we use trillions of times per day as a species is a testament to said technology being real. That technology was born from scientific principles that again are reaffirmed every day over and over again...

So, when a group tries to use said principles and technology to explain the unknown, their postulations, hypotheses, theories, etc are going to have some credence to them.

I will 100% agree that cosmology models have some fairie dust in them, sure... If you look at the history of science, this has happened plenty of times-- one example that comes to mind is the plum pudding model for atomic theory. We now know that model was completely wrong however the model was disproved by using the scientific method and it helped lead us to better more accurate models.

I feel that cosmology is similar, they will keep modeling the universe using the principles we have learned on Earth and they will refine the model every time things are proved or disproved... eventually they will build more accurate models.

but in the mean time, meh, I'm not ready to completely through the baby out with the bath water and declare that the universe is not billions of years old...

But that technology that we use has nothing to do with theories of Dark Matter, etc.

Those theories could be totally false and it wouldn’t affect technology at all.....

It is billions of years old radiometrically, just not in reality. You know acceleration has increased. You know clocks slow with acceleration, yet you are then willing to ignore what you know is “hard” experimental science and ignore time dilation to retain a belief at direct odds with the science you say you follow.

Far from my definition of science..... or any definition of it.

But they aren’t using the principles they learned on earth. Those principles proved time dilation.... those principles proved Relativity was 99.8% correct without the Fairie Dust. In the solar system...... to a non-ionized state of matter....... planetary systems........ .1% of the universe...... then they ignored those principles and added 95% ad-hoc theory to a theory they already understood was 99.8% correct without any of it.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

^^ bump

 

[ianw16]

Agreed, It is pseudoscience - Fairie Dust.

But it isn't the only game in town. It is only the game they will consider while ignoring a universe 99.9% plasma and instead treating it like a planetary system of non-ionized solids, liquids and gasses with the wrong physics......

Galaxy formation - The Plasma Universe theory (Wikipedia-like Encyclopedia)

Which is a nonsense model that couldn't explain the rotation of stars, failed to get the morphology of a spiral galaxy correct, and failed to show the huge galaxy spanning currents (from where?) in COBE, WMAP and Planck data. Among other things. It was a non-event paper, published in an inappropriate journal, where it has sat ignored for decades. Rightly so.

[1806.05001] The galactic rotation curve of a magnetized plasma cloud

"The rotation curve of a magnetized plasma cloud orbiting in the gravitational potential of a galaxy is calculated by statistical arguments. The working assumption is that a mild magnetic field, decreasing with distance from the galactic center, permeates space. It is shown that the resulting probability density is compatible with a flat rotation curve."

A non-peer reviewed paper sitting on arxiv. No citations. Not worth bothering with.

Magnetic fields as an alternative explanation for the rotation curves of spiral galaxies

"Here we argue that an azimuthal magnetic field can carry slightly ionized gas with the general galactic rotation, rendering dark matter unnecessary (a related idea was first proposed by Nelson1). For the illustrative case of M31, a magnetic field of 6 μG is required, and the synchrotron emission of relativistic electrons in this field is compatible with the observations."

Authors; Battaner, Garrido, Membrano & Florido.
Seems like they've had a change of heart in the time since they wrote that;

On a unified theory of cold dark matter halos based on collisionless Boltzmann–Poisson polytropes
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037843710900168X
Authors include; Battaner & Florido.

 

[ianw16]

They were simply unaware of the deceleration of the solar wind at the heliosphere when they proposed the CMB.

Which is wrong. Although it was predicted in 1948, it wasn't discovered until 1964. And has nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening at the heliopause. See;

Solar wind and interplanetary magnetic field
Dessler, A. J. (1967)
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/RG005i001p00001 (paywalled)

In that paper, Dessler references other works, including Davis (1955), Clauser (1960), Parker (1961) & Axford (1963), all of which model the solar wind interaction with the interstellar medium, and the termination of the solar wind and the interplanetary magnetic field carried by it. Hard to terminate something without slowing it down first.

 

[lesliedellow]

Physicists may be happy with the idea that they are model builders, but I wouldn’t want to try telling a biologist the same thing. They probably think that the structure of human DNA is what it is, full stop.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Physicists may be happy with the idea that they are model builders, but I wouldn’t want to try telling a biologist the same thing. They probably think that the structure of human DNA is what it is, full stop.

If it is what it is, they'd be right; if it isn't what it is, the world is even stranger than I thought...

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Which is a nonsense model that couldn't explain the rotation of stars, failed to get the morphology of a spiral galaxy correct, and failed to show the huge galaxy spanning currents (from where?) in COBE, WMAP and Planck data. Among other things. It was a non-event paper, published in an inappropriate journal, where it has sat ignored for decades. Rightly so.

Because they ignore those currents except when they have no choice but to acknowledge them.....

Space Lightning? Strongest Electrical Current In Universe Found

Every single place we have actually looked for them, why there they are. And an electrical current requires a circuit, so ask yourself where that circuit ends up.

You have already mapped them, you just pretend it’s dark matter, even if gravity does not form Fillaments, electromagnetism does....

Speaking of failed models, who’s the one waving their hands and proposing 95% ad-hoc theory because their models they understood were 99.8% correct in the solar system didn’t work at all outside it??????

Of course, they keep using the incorrect physics, just like Hanes Alfven the originator of MHD informed them 50 years ago they could not use fluid dynamics to describe space plasma.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19870013880.pdf

But let’s pretend that never happened. And let’s pretend actual experiments in space confirmed his prediction.

But here you are using fluid dynamics when it behaves like an electrically charged crystalline lattice in space. So mainstream will always need their Fairie Dust because they won’t help figure out the correct physics....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

If it is what it is, they'd be right; if it isn't what it is, the world is even stranger than I thought...

It isn’t what they thought it was 10 years ago... It won’t be what they think it is now 10 years from now.....

 

[ianw16]

Because they ignore those currents except when they have no choice but to acknowledge them.....

Space Lightning? Strongest Electrical Current In Universe Found

Every single place we have actually looked for them, why there they are. And an electrical current requires a circuit, so ask yourself where that circuit ends up.

Lol. A current from a BH jet! This has nothing to do with Peratt's idiocy. He needed megaparsec currents between galaxies.. They don't exist. Fact. He also had no mechanism for how these non-existent currents would move stars around. It was a complete failure of a hypothesis, and he only managed to get it published in an engineering journal. It was junk.

Dealing with Creationism in Astronomy: Scott Rebuttal. II. The Peratt Galaxy Model vs. the Cosmic Microwave Background

You have already mapped them, you just pretend it’s dark matter, even if gravity does not form Fillaments, electromagnetism does....

Utter nonsense. Sounds like a lie to me. Where is your evidence?

Speaking of failed models, who’s the one waving their hands and proposing 95% ad-hoc theory because their models they understood were 99.8% correct in the solar system didn’t work at all outside it??????

At least they have a model, and indirect evidence for it. You have nothing other than word salad.

Of course, they keep using the incorrect physics, just like Hanes Alfven the originator of MHD informed them 50 years ago they could not use fluid dynamics to describe space plasma.

And that is another lie. He warned against its indiscriminate use. Today's plasma physicists are well aware when, and when not, to use MHD.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19870013880.pdf

Is a dated paper that is mostly wrong. Alfven screwed up over magnetic reconnection, and over estimated the importance of DLs in astrophysics. Raadu is a far better source for DL physics than Alfven.

But here you are using fluid dynamics when it behaves like an electrically charged crystalline lattice in space. So mainstream will always need their Fairie Dust because they won’t help figure out the correct physics....

Word salad. What would you know about the physics? And what the hell has that got to do with galaxy rotation curves? Lol. Show me how you are getting plasma woo to shift dirty great stars around.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It isn’t what they thought it was 10 years ago... It won’t be what they think it is now 10 years from now.....

Possibly - if so, it'll be because they have a better model - and that's what they're after..

 

[ianw16]

Possibly - if so, it'll be because they have a better model - and that's what they're after..

And therein lies the difference between science and pseudoscience. Well, one of them, anyway. Scientific theories are never written in stone. There is always the chance of new observations changing the model. Fine. Science is not a religion. It is not written in stone, nor does it require faith. Both religion and pseudoscience require zero science, zero evidence, and a lot of faith.

 

[Halbhh]

Dark Matter was a ad-hoc rescue device

Here's a key thing to look at more carefully. What actually happened is astrophysicists are simply trying to understand where the seeming gravity is coming from, and since they can't yet see (no light emitted) that seeming missing matter, it's called 'dark matter' temporarily, as a way to name it until it's finally resolved. And they constantly come up with new hypotheses to test, and do not have a doctrine about it.

No conspiracy nor incompetence, nor denial, etc., etc., no bad faith, no bad attitude stuff needed at all!

There is zero attempt to cover up this hole of missing explanation. Just the opposite. We can read hundreds of quotes of astrophysicists emphasizing to the public "we don't yet understand it" and "we haven't figured it out", etc.

Don't revile scientists even indirectly. Don't personalize and attack. This matters actually more than we'd guess at first because of what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 6:10 - "...nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." So, the modern tendency to revile people (the temptation to do that) is far more dangerous to us as believers than we might first suppose.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Lol. A current from a BH jet! This has nothing to do with Peratt's idiocy. He needed megaparsec currents between galaxies.. They don't exist. Fact. He also had no mechanism for how these non-existent currents would move stars around. It was a complete failure of a hypothesis, and he only managed to get it published in an engineering journal. It was junk.

What black hole???? Oh you mean the matter gobbling entity that is instead spewing out enough light to light up the entire galaxy and enough matter that there is no explanation where all that matter comes from???

That Fairie Dust black hole???? The ones you have never ever observed that are mere missing pieces in a theory? The missing piece is plasma, which you ignore.

Gravitational singularity - Wikipedia

"Many theories in physics have mathematical singularities of one kind or another. Equations for these physical theories predict that the ball of mass of some quantity becomes infinite or increases without limit. This is generally a sign for a missing piece in the theory, as in the Ultraviolet Catastrophe, re-normalization, and instability of a hydrogen atom predicted by the Larmor formula."

And sends me to a blog site, can't even produce an actual peer reviewed paper in rebuttal.....

A blog site ran by idiots......

Utter nonsense. Sounds like a lie to me. Where is your evidence?

You were provided with it.... You just keep ignoring the evidence when it is found...

For The First Time, Physicists Have Observed a Giant Magnetic 'Bridge' Between Galaxies

And are everywhere we look....

Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun | Science Mission Directorate

And so obvious it's pathetic you can't see them...

Even if your dark matter is in reality plasma fillaments.

At least they have a model, and indirect evidence for it. You have nothing other than word salad.

What model??? One that needs 95% Fairie Dust added to it to keep it afloat???? That's no model.... That is fantasy....

And that is another lie. He warned against its indiscriminate use. Today's plasma physicists are well aware when, and when not, to use MHD.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19870013880.pdf

Is a dated paper that is mostly wrong. Alfven screwed up over magnetic reconnection, and over estimated the importance of DLs in astrophysics. Raadu is a far better source for DL physics than Alfven.

No, magnetic reconnection is pseudoscience.... Show me in Guass's Laws where magnetic fields do not form continuous loops. And then show me in any science textbook what causes magnetic fields.....

Go ahead, back up your word salad with science. You can't, can you.... It is the electric currents that touch and explode, causing the collapse of the magnetic field, then reforming the magnetic field when the current reconnects... It isn't magnetic reconnection, it is electric circuit reconnection..... At least get part of it correct.....

Lets understand you can't defend yourself with actual science.

Magnetic field - Wikipedia

"A magnetic field is a vector field that describes the magnetic influence of electrical currents and magnetized materials."

Origin of Permanent Magnetism

"In conclusion, all magnetic fields encountered in nature are generated by circulating currents. There is no fundamental difference between the fields generated by permanent magnets and those generated by currents flowing around conventional electric circuits. In the former, case the currents which generate the fields circulate on the atomic scale, whereas, in the latter case, the currents circulate on a macroscopic scale (i.e., the scale of the circuit)."

Keep ranting, but you have no science to back up your pseudoscientific beliefs....

Word salad. What would you know about the physics? And what the hell has that got to do with galaxy rotation curves? Lol. Show me how you are getting plasma woo to shift dirty great stars around.

More than you do apparently, since I am not the one proposing magic Fairie Dust to explain why a theory you know is 99.8% accurate without that Fairie Dust can't explain anything outside the solar system without it.......

If you knew anything about physics....

The Lorentz Force

Charged Particle in a Magnetic Field

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/rws_etd/document/get/osu1367560698/inline

 

[ianw16]

What black hole???? Oh you mean the matter gobbling entity that is instead spewing out enough light to light up the entire galaxy and enough matter that there is no explanation where all that matter comes from???

That Fairie Dust black hole???? The ones you have never ever observed that are mere missing pieces in a theory? The missing piece is plasma, which you ignore.

Gravitational singularity - Wikipedia

"Many theories in physics have mathematical singularities of one kind or another. Equations for these physical theories predict that the ball of mass of some quantity becomes infinite or increases without limit. This is generally a sign for a missing piece in the theory, as in the Ultraviolet Catastrophe, re-normalization, and instability of a hydrogen atom predicted by the Larmor formula."

And sends me to a blog site, can't even produce an actual peer reviewed paper in rebuttal.....

A blog site ran by idiots......




You were provided with it.... You just keep ignoring the evidence when it is found...

For The First Time, Physicists Have Observed a Giant Magnetic 'Bridge' Between Galaxies

And are everywhere we look....

Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun | Science Mission Directorate

And so obvious it's pathetic you can't see them...

View attachment 246180

Even if your dark matter is in reality plasma fillaments.

View attachment 246179







What model??? One that needs 95% Fairie Dust added to it to keep it afloat???? That's no model.... That is fantasy....




No, magnetic reconnection is pseudoscience.... Show me in Guass's Laws where magnetic fields do not form continuous loops. And then show me in any science textbook what causes magnetic fields.....

Go ahead, back up your word salad with science. You can't, can you.... It is the electric currents that touch and explode, causing the collapse of the magnetic field, then reforming the magnetic field when the current reconnects... It isn't magnetic reconnection, it is electric circuit reconnection..... At least get part of it correct.....

Lets understand you can't defend yourself with actual science.

Magnetic field - Wikipedia

"A magnetic field is a vector field that describes the magnetic influence of electrical currents and magnetized materials."

Origin of Permanent Magnetism

"In conclusion, all magnetic fields encountered in nature are generated by circulating currents. There is no fundamental difference between the fields generated by permanent magnets and those generated by currents flowing around conventional electric circuits. In the former, case the currents which generate the fields circulate on the atomic scale, whereas, in the latter case, the currents circulate on a macroscopic scale (i.e., the scale of the circuit)."

Keep ranting, but you have no science to back up your pseudoscientific beliefs....



More than you do apparently, since I am not the one proposing magic Fairie Dust to explain why a theory you know is 99.8% accurate without that Fairie Dust can't explain anything outside the solar system without it.......

If you knew anything about physics....

The Lorentz Force

Charged Particle in a Magnetic Field

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/rws_etd/document/get/osu1367560698/inline

Yada, yada, yada. No currents, woo boy. They are not observed. Get over it. Peratt's model is a complete failure. And the blog site I referenced contains the references that show his woo to be wrong. Tell me how you are moving a star with a magnetic field. With maths, and the observed field strengths, and the constrains for the charge on a star. You can't do it, because it is pure woo.

 

[ianw16]

Go ahead, back up your word salad with science. You can't, can you.... It is the electric currents that touch and explode, causing the collapse of the magnetic field, then reforming the magnetic field when the current reconnects... It isn't magnetic reconnection, it is electric circuit reconnection..... At least get part of it correct.....

Pure nonsense. Unobserved fairy story. MR is observed in-situ and in the lab. It is proven beyond any doubt, and nobody is saying otherwise. Well, nobody who is scientifically literate, anyway.

 

[ianw16]

Keep ranting, but you have no science to back up your pseudoscientific beliefs....

Hahaha. Rich coming from an EU believer who also harbours primitive superstitious beliefs! Show me the current in the solar wind, woo boy. What is the net outflow of current from the Sun? Why can this not happen? For obvious reasons. A magnetic field is created by the movement of charged particles. When the sum charge of those particles = 0, you have no current outside of the Debye sphere. Which is ~ 10m in the solar wind.

 

[tas8831]

Except after 80 years and null result after null result after null result...., they don't seem to want to self correct their cosmological models at all...... but why would they, searching for imaginary things is a great cash cow and you never have to admit you were wrong. You just ask for another billion dollars to find more nothing.....

How about that creationist cosmological model?

How many non-null results have creation scientists produced?

 

[tas8831]

One was deduced from logic, the other from illogical thinking.

How was the creation model deduced?

 

[ianw16]

If you knew anything about physics....

And if you knew anything about it, you wouldn't be peddling your unscientific woo on here. You'd be on a physics forum, debating it with actual physicists. Try ISF or Cosmoquest. I can guarantee you a plasma physicist to confront there, and he'll rip you to pieces.