The Trinity

[Albion]

Here is something to ponder while we wait:

All of the sources you read from below are Trinitarians. The thing that is striking to me is that they are being honest about the origins of the Trinity of three persons in one essence. You cannot simply go to the Bible and extract this theological position.

You could say that -- to the extent that you are quibbling with the particular wording used by the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople or of certain theologians who might be quoted. However, I referred you to the Bible and ITS wording that, IMO, makes dismissing the Trinity out of hand impossible to justify.

The prophets, Jesus and the apostles were all believers that God is one single person.

What do you mean by "person" there?

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not three separate persons that exist eternally side by side next to each other in fellowship.

That's correct.

Father, Son and Spirit are three different manifestations of the one God.

That's been run up the flagpole before and hardly anyone saluted.

 

[djkms]

The word "trinity" is nothing more than a label which states God the father, God the son and God the spirit are ONE, co equal and co eternal. Scripture backs this up, can you use scripture to refute it? You can quote every study possible to man but it means nothing if it can't be backed up by scripture

 

[JustHisKid]

Please read the whole article, as it shows historically the even the term trinity was not used until the 2-3rd centuries. Neither was any Christian baptized in titles

I get it, but it doesn't matter. I don't worship the "trinity", I worship God.

 

[JustHisKid]

The word "trinity" is nothing more than a label which states God the father, God the son and God the spirit are ONE, co equal and co eternal. Scripture backs this up, can you use scripture to refute it? You can quote every study possible to man but it means nothing if it can't be backed up by scripture

Exactly, but they aren't three, they are one. It is all the same God. They are not equal, HE IS.

 

[faroukfarouk]

If God is not triune, how would that change anything regarding Christian faith?

The end of Matthew 28; John 13 thru 17; John's First Epistle all clearly show God in Three Persons.

 

[donfish06]

Exactly, but they aren't three, they are one. It is all the same God. They are not equal, HE IS.

But there is no such thing as "God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit"

Man has made that up! Jesus never referred to himself as God the Son. You will not find it one time in the Scriptures.

It isn't "three in one, coequal and coexistant". Co existing means there are more than one! Hint: how can "ONE" coexist with ANYTHING?

 

[donfish06]

I get it, but it doesn't matter. I don't worship the "trinity", I worship God.

Sister, are you inferring that what God says does not matter??

 

[JustHisKid]

But there is no such thing as "God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit"

Man has made that up! Jesus never referred to himself as God the Son. You will not find it one time in the Scriptures.

It isn't "three in one, coequal and coexistant". Co existing means there are more than one! Hint: how can "ONE" coexist with ANYTHING?

I agree with you. Jesus claimed to be God and I don't believe God is a they, that they might coexist. I believe God is one.

 

[JustHisKid]

Sister, are you inferring that what God says does not matter??

Not in the least. I'm saying that people who believe in something called the 'trinity' believe the same thing you do, they just call it something else.

 

[donfish06]

Not in the least. I'm saying that people who believe in something called the 'trinity' believe the same thing you do, they just call it something else.

Let me ask you this. If God tells us to do something, and someone else makes up a different way to do it, and they make it the norm, and we do it their way and NOT God's way, would you say that we are being obedient to God?

Obedience to God IS worship. God told us to be baptized in the NAME. The Catholics told us to be baptized in TITLES. If you obey God then you are, in fact, worshiping God. If you listen to ANYTHING other than what God has said, then you are worshiping THAT, through your obedience to it.

 

[djkms]

But there is no such thing as "God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit"

Man has made that up! Jesus never referred to himself as God the Son. You will not find it one time in the Scriptures.

It isn't "three in one, coequal and coexistant". Co existing means there are more than one! Hint: how can "ONE" coexist with ANYTHING?

Is this a matter of semantics? Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God? If you answered yes to both questions then are you not in essence saying the same thing by saying God the Son, God the Holy Spirit? If they in fact do not mean the same thing then please explain. Now if you say no to either of those questions then please tell us why you do not agree and please let us know your scriptural resource. Otherwise, we are essentially agreeing.

I agree, I think the co-eternal and co-exist can be argued that it would mean 1+ when God is only 1. However at the end of the day we are trying to put God in a finite box due to our limited capacity for knowledge.

 

[donfish06]

Is this a matter of semantics? Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God? If you answered yes to both questions then are you not in essence saying the same thing by saying God the Son, God the Holy Spirit? If they in fact do not mean the same thing then please explain. Now if you say no to either of those questions then please tell us why you do not agree and please let us know your scriptural resource. Otherwise, we are essentially agreeing.

I agree, I think the co-eternal and co-exist can be argued that it would mean 1+ when God is only 1. However at the end of the day we are trying to put God in a finite box due to our limited capacity for knowledge.

Okay, I am home now on my computer, so I will explain.

First off, what we all must understand is that God has never, EVER been careless about how he was to be worshiped. He always gave very specific details on EXACTLY how we must approach him. MANY people have been killed just because of changing ONE LITTLE THING.

Think about how explicit he was concerning the details of the tabernacle! If ONE thread was the wrong type, or color, then He would NOT have dwelt there! SOO, if God gives us instructions, we better follow them to the "T", if we want to be received by him, Yes?

 

[donfish06]

The end of Matthew 28; John 13 thru 17; John's First Epistle all clearly show God in Three Persons.

Can you explain to me what you mean by "God in three persons"?

 

[JustHisKid]

Let me ask you this. If God tells us to do something, and someone else makes up a different way to do it, and they make it the norm, and we do it their way and NOT God's way, would you say that we are being obedient to God?

No.

Obedience to God IS worship. God told us to be baptized in the NAME. The Catholics told us to be baptized in TITLES. If you obey God then you are, in fact, worshiping God. If you listen to ANYTHING other than what God has said, then you are worshiping THAT, through your obedience to it.

I agree. I was raised Catholic and was baptized as an infant in titles. That baptism meant nothing to me and I reject everything about that religion. I was baptized as an adult after I accepted Christ.

 

[JustHisKid]

Okay, I am home now on my computer, so I will explain.

First off, what we all must understand is that God has never, EVER been careless about how he was to be worshiped. He always gave very specific details on EXACTLY how we must approach him. MANY people have been killed just because of changing ONE LITTLE THING.

Think about how explicit he was concerning the details of the tabernacle! If ONE thread was the wrong type, or color, then He would NOT have dwelt there! SOO, if God gives us instructions, we better follow them to the "T", if we want to be received by him, Yes?

Yikes. It sounds like you are tying to follow the law. What happened to grace?

 

[GillDouglas]

"And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:16-17)

 

[donfish06]

Yikes. It sounds like you are tying to follow the law. What happened to grace?

Sorry, don't get me wrong ... I am not stuck under the old covenant, Jesus has fulfilled the Law. The fact still remains, however that God cannot change. If he tells us to do something and we do something different, then it is sin.

In Matt 28:19 Jesus told the disciples to baptize in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

What NAME were you baptized in? If it is not the one HE said, then it is disobedience, which is sin!

We do NOT and have NEVER been given freedom to worship God how "we" feel. We see this from the beginning:

Cain and Abel both had it in their heart to worship God! Cain was not making a sacrifice because he hated God, he wanted to serve Him. When God told him that he hated his sacrifice and that ALL he had to do was worship Him like Abel worshiped, he was MAD. He did not want to worship God the way that God wanted to be worshiped. He wanted to do it HIS way. And lets be honest.. he worked a LOT harder on his sacrifice than Abel did. Think about all the ground tilling, and seed sowing, and watering, and weed pulling, and back breaking labor involved in the sacrifice that Cain offered. Abel on the other hand, sat on his rear all day watching sheep. Not a hard job at all. Another thing, Cains sacrifice was WAY more BEAUTIFUL than Abel's bloody dead lamb. To the carnal eye, we would have probably thought that Cain was more righteous, because he seemingly did more for God. But God does not want more, he wants OBEDIENCE!

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.​

 

[donfish06]

"And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:16-17)

In your opinion, what does this prove?

 

[GillDouglas]

In your opinion, what does this prove?

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just quoting Scripture. Is there something you see in this quote, that I might be missing?

 

[donfish06]

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just quoting Scripture. Is there something you see in this quote, that I might be missing?

I am simply trying to see what your understanding is. Please tell.