The Trinity

[Cleany]

"Fully God"? Apparently it is "necessary" to believe that about Jesus to be a Christian, but why? And what does it mean anyway, does anyone actually understand it?

 

[FriarTuck]

Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic faith. Whoever does not guard it whole and inviolable will doubtless perish eternally. Now this is the catholic faith: We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being. For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another. But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty. What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit. Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit. The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite. Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited. Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty. Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God. Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord. As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords. The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son. Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits. And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons. Whoever wants to be saved should think thus about the Trinity. It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe that our Lord Jesus Christ became flesh. For this is the true faith that we believe and confess: That our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man. He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother -- existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity. Although he is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ. He is united because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform deity into humanity. He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing his natures. For as the rational soul and body are one person, so the one Christ is God and man. He suffered death for our salvation. He descended into hell and rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, those who have done evil will enter eternal fire. This is the catholic faith. One cannot be saved without believing this firmly and faithfully.
That's the long and the short of it. Well mostly the long...

 

[Iollain]

Excellent post Friartuck. Yes there is One God, and God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are Him.

 

[Iollain]

No Cleany we can't fully understand God, but when you read the Bible you'll notice that God is Trinity.

 

[TreesNTrees]

And then, there is God's own condensed version. He lives up to His own standard of let thy "words be few"

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

God's Romans Creed

 

[Gwenyfur]

Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic faith...

So I'm going to hell because....I'm jewish, and believe in the same that the apostles did....BEFORE the catholic church was even founded.....

....
....

interesting... but sorry not buying it

 

[kopilo]

So I'm going to hell because....I'm jewish, and believe in the same that the apostles did....BEFORE the catholic church was even founded.....

....
....

interesting... but sorry not buying it

This is how it works, how can you be saved when you believe the saviour hasn't come yet.

However I'm sure you might goto heaven whatever heaven may be.

 

[Gwenyfur]

This is how it works, how can you be saved when you believe the saviour hasn't come yet.

However I'm sure you might goto heaven whatever heaven may be.

Excuse me? You apparently don't understand what a Messianic Jew is....let me clarify...

Y'shua (Jesus) is Messiah, the Savior of the World.

Again:

Y'shua is Messiah...The Messiah for ALL the world!

Lest you forget that Y'shua was a JEW...as were the APOSTLES that you base your apostolic succession on.

And when I die...or Y'shua returns (whichever comes first) I will be with Him, in His glory, praising His name and singing with the rest of His children.

Shalom

 

[kopilo]

Excuse me? You apparently don't understand what a Messianic Jew is....let me clarify...

Y'shua (Jesus) is Messiah, the Savior of the World.

Again:

Y'shua is Messiah...The Messiah for ALL the world!

Lest you forget that Y'shua was a JEW...as were the APOSTLES that you base your apostolic succession on.

And when I die...or Y'shua returns (whichever comes first) I will be with Him, in His glory, praising His name and singing with the rest of His children.

Shalom

You just simply said Jewish.. yes I read your icon, but as a Messianic Jew, well that is a completely different ball game.
and yes the chicken and rooster becomes before the egg. However the chicken or the egg is no more important then eachother.. the egg is the future the chicken is keeping the egg alive.

If you read what the statement you were responding to claims, it clamis anyone but catholics will be saved.............. that part I find really disheartening I have been in over three different type of denominational christian schools, mainly lutheran and catholic... they basically say the same thing, next to paralle beliefs about the trinty.

Also someone who contributed to some of my current beliefs was born in germany (no not martin luther) Rudolf Steiner, some of his research doesn't come from jewish but pagan and mysteries.

 

[Gwenyfur]

You just simply said Jewish.. yes I read your icon, but as a Messianic Jew, well that is a completely different ball game.
and yes the chicken and rooster becomes before the egg. However the chicken or the egg is no more important then eachother.. the egg is the future the chicken is keeping the egg alive.

If you read what the statement you were responding to claims, it clamis anyone but catholics will be saved.............. that part I find really disheartening I have been in over three different type of denominational christian schools, mainly lutheran and catholic... they basically say the same thing, next to paralle beliefs about the trinty.

Also someone who contributed to some of my current beliefs was born in germany (no not martin luther) Rudolf Steiner, some of his research doesn't come from jewish but pagan and mysteries.

Don't be disheartened...Abba loves all of His children. Those who call on the name of His Son and keep His laws will be with Him in the end.

Mark 16:15-16 KJV


15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[mutzrein]

Oh darn! So, if for arguments sake someone was to say that they did not believe that Jesus was God, is there going to be outright condemnation to the point of saying that they cannot be saved?

 

[kopilo]

Don't be disheartened...Abba loves all of His children. Those who call on the name of His Son and keep His laws will be with Him in the end.

Mark 16:15-16 KJV

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

ohh no no, I'm only disharened with that statement about only catholics going to heaven..as in I find it depressing someone would say such a definative line.

 

[Gwenyfur]

ohh no no, I'm only disharened with that statement about only catholics going to heaven..as in I find it depressing someone would say such a definative line.

oh!!!!

well....errmmmmm

that's what I get for being so literal at this time of morning

 

[Tetzel]

ohh no no, I'm only disharened with that statement about only catholics going to heaven..as in I find it depressing someone would say such a definative line.

that's catholic with a small c as in the adjective universal, not a denominational marker. Of course if one does not believe in the trinity, they are not part of the universal church according to the Athanasian Creed.

 

[kopilo]

that's catholic with a small c as in the adjective universal, not a denominational marker. Of course if one does not believe in the trinity, they are not part of the universal church according to the Athanasian Creed.

thanks, that makes a little more sense. lol

 

[Cleany]

Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic faith. Whoever does not guard it whole and inviolable will doubtless perish eternally.

so let me understand this in logical language ... call it a salvation algorithm

IF we do not "cling to the catholic faith" THEN we will "perish eternally.

thats a bit cut and dried isnt it?

No Cleany we can't fully understand God, but when you read the Bible you'll notice that God is Trinity.

if jesus is fully god then why ...

Mark 13:32

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

anyway how about some discussion about it rather than blank statements about salvation.

heres an example:

the trinity can be implied in the gospels, but that doesnt explain anything about it. how can a man be fully god?

 

[harvester]

Oh darn! So, if for arguments sake someone was to say that they did not believe that Jesus was God, is there going to be outright condemnation to the point of saying that they cannot be saved?

John 8:24, we will die in our sins if we will not believe in the claims of Jesus about himself.

so i say yes!!!!

 

[Oblio]

if jesus is fully god then why ...

Questions like this belong in Unorthodox Theology

 

[Tonks]

that's catholic with a small c as in the adjective universal, not a denominational marker. Of course if one does not believe in the trinity, they are not part of the universal church according to the Athanasian Creed.

Is anyone else surprised that the meaning of the "small c" catholic was not apparent in that statement?????

 

[kopilo]

Is anyone else surprised that the meaning of the "small c" catholic was not apparent in that statement?????

You would be surprised by what some people state on CF.