The Trinity

Originally posted by Neo

The Logos is the only thing that God created directly, everything else God created through the Logos.God cannot actually be the Logos as John implies, because the Bible says that God created the Logos in the beginning. The Logos is made divine by God, and the Logos is above everything else because God created the Logos directly, but the Logos can't be God...

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Nope, at least I don't see it that way. The Word was God and "God said" was and still is the creation of the essence of all existence. God and Logos are one and the same.

Could you please tell me where God create the Logos?

How, Neo, can you have a full grasp of a thing which has no end. To process every nuance and development that would flow from a study would require an infinite amount of energy. Not only that, but an infinite amount of time to understand. You have a broad idea of it, yes, but full comprehension is impossible.

"No, I do not agree. I have fully comprehended infinity. It is easy to do, if you stop trying to put limits on everything."

Neo, I think you're fooling yourself. YOu can't comprehend something that is infinte because you yourself are finite.

Originally posted by Chili


Nope, at least I don't see it that way. The Word was God and "God said" was and still is the creation of the essence of all existence. God and Logos are one and the same.

Could you please tell me where God create the Logos?

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The Logos is the Word of God, but it isn't actually God. Still not sure when God created the Logos? Think about it.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"No, I do not agree. I have fully comprehended infinity. It is easy to do, if you stop trying to put limits on everything."

Neo, I think you're fooling yourself. YOu can't comprehend something that is infinte because you yourself are finite.

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I think that you're fooling yourself by pretending to know what I can and can not comprehend. I also think that you're fooling yourself when you say that you're incapable of comprehending infinity, because I believe that you are capable.

So picture in your mind a straight line that is unending. You can't. You can picture parts of the line but they all have an end. You can't neo, you're fooling yourself. You can continue to if you wish but I'll just bow out and let you keep ranting if you want.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
So picture in your mind a straight line that is unending. You can't. You can picture parts of the line but they all have an end. You can't neo, you're fooling yourself. You can continue to if you wish but I'll just bow out and let you keep ranting if you want.

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Picture the line as a circle, it goes around with no beginning or end. Does that help?

"Picture the line as a circle, it goes around with no beginning or end. Does that help?"

that's not a line, and not in accordance with what I stated. I said straight line, not a curved one so again, you're not getting it.

Originally posted by Neo

The Logos is the Word of God, but it isn't actually God. Still not sure when God created the Word? Think about it.

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No, the Word was God and Lord God formed all that which the Word created. This is clear from Gen.1 and 2. If God was outside his Word the Intelligent Design would not be part of the created and so evolution would not be possible. I should add here that adaptation is the creative Word of God within creation.

Let me say it this way. God creates the essence (the blueprint) of existence and Lord God builts upon this image. This makes God the living God within the created (also in us) to become the creator with whom we are co-creator (but for which we must be crucified).

Let me tie this in with your concept of infinity. Infinity has no beginning and no end. The problem with no beginning and no end is that without a beginning it is impossible for us to know and understand infinity unless we become eternal in which case we also have no end and so become the continuity of infinity (manifestation of God upon earth). Unlike infinity, eternity has a beginning but no end and so when we become eternal we become the continuity of infinity (of God, yes). In the words of St. Francis of Assissi, "it is in dying [to temporal life] that we are born into eternal life."

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Picture the line as a circle, it goes around with no beginning or end. Does that help?"

that's not a line, and not in accordance with what I stated. I said straight line, not a curved one so again, you're not getting it.

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I'm trying to help you comprehend infinity. If you do not wish to comprehend it, just say so.

*chuckles* if you say so Neo, if you say so. a cicle is not an infinite straight line. Another reason is because for it to be a true unending line it cannot run over itself again, some thing with numbers like Pi, they can't repeat patterns.

Originally posted by Neo

Picture the line as a circle, it goes around with no beginning or end. Does that help?

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To understand infinity we need the mind of God. This is possible and is our mandate here upon earth.

Originally posted by Chili


No, the Word was God and Lord God formed all that which the Word created. This is clear from Gen.1 and 2. If God was outside his Word the Intelligent Design would not be part of the created and so evolution would not be possible. I should add here that adaptation is the creative Word of God within creation.

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You are mistaken. The Logos is not God, the Logos is the word of God. Because the Logos came directly from God, it is divine and eternal, just like God, but it is not God.

Logos -
n.

1. In biblical Judaism, the word of God, which itself has creative power and is God's medium of communication with the human race.

2. In Hellenistic Judaism, a hypostasis associated with divine wisdom

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The Bible also says that God created this Logos/Word/Wisdom in the beginning, before anything else. Everything else God created through the Logos.

Originally posted by Neo

You are mistaken. The Logos is not God, the Logos is the word of God. Because the Logos came directly from God, it is divine and eternal, just like God, but it is not God.

The Bible also says that God created this Logos/Word/Wisdom in the beginning, before anything else. Everything else God created through the Logos.

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Yes after the heavens and the earth were created out of chaos as opposites to each other the Word (Logos, Wisdom) became God and God was the Word. I would think here of God is Love and Lord God is Life or God is Beauty and Lord God is Truth and therefore is God the continuty of Life and Life the continuity of God and Beauty the continuity of Truth and Truth the continuity of Beauty. God is not outside of the Word or God would be outside of Life.

Sorry, but that is my take on it and the bible does not contradict me.

Originally posted by Chili


Yes after the heavens and the earth were created out of chaos as opposites to each other the Word (Logos, Wisdom) became God and God was the Word.

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Since the Logos was begotten from God, the Logos is made of the same 'stuff' as God, but it's separate from God. I guess you could say that the Logos is a part of God too.

Originally posted by SCJ
Where does the Bible say God created the Logos in the beginning. I post my references...please post yours.

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I finally found it. God created the Logos before anything else.


Proverbs 8

22 "The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

Originally posted by Neo

I finally found it. God created the Logos before anything else.

Proverbs 8

22 "The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

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_____Just one thing wrong with this post. Where is the word "Logos?"

Originally posted by OldShepherd

_____Just one thing wrong with this post. Where is the word "Logos?"

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Read Proverbs 8 in it's entirety, and you'll see that it's Wisdom. The Logos is the Word/Wisdom/Will of God.

Originally posted by Neo
Read Proverbs 8 in it's entirety, and you'll see that it's Wisdom. The Logos is the Word/Wisdom/Will of God.

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_____No, if you want to prove your point, you read all of Proverbs, then you post your scriptural evidence here. I'm not going to go all over the place to prove your point. Also your last statement is false. Logos is not wisdom. I read and write Hebrew and Greek. What are your qualifications? And in Greek thought Logos is much more than word.

Originally posted by OldShepherd

_____No, if you want to prove your point, you read all of Proverbs, then you post your scriptural evidence here. I'm not going to go all over the place to prove your point. Also your last statement is false. Logos is not wisdom. I read and write Hebrew and Greek. What are your qualifications? And in Greek thought Logos is much more than word.

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'Logos' is the Greek word for the logical or reasoning mind of God. Interchangeable translations of logos are will, word, and wisdom.

Here is Proverbs 8 in it's entirety..

Proverbs 8

1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 On the heights along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gates leading into the city,
at the entrances, she cries aloud:
4 "To you, O men, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;
you who are foolish, gain understanding.
6 Listen, for I have worthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
7 My mouth speaks what is true,
for my lips detest wickedness.
8 All the words of my mouth are just;
none of them is crooked or perverse.
9 To the discerning all of them are right;
they are faultless to those who have knowledge.
10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

12 "I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have understanding and power.
15 By me kings reign
and rulers make laws that are just;
16 by me princes govern,
and all nobles who rule on earth.
17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.
18 With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
19 My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.
20 I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
21 bestowing wealth on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.

22 "The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

32 "Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not ignore it.
34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the Lord .
36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death."