THe trinity my theory....

[simchat_torah]

Actually, I have not. I meant to check it out last month from the library, but never did... ended up reading too much Palahnuik. Its something I've wanted to read for some time now.

 

[simchat_torah]

Source from the first quotation in question:

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Source from the second quotation in question:

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc

Probably two of the most accepted dictionaries on the market. I still fail to see how I misapplied???

oh well... there are things I will always do wrong.

Things like...

I am unnoficially known as the comma splicing king!!!!

 

[simchat_torah]

oopps... to completely document my dictionary useage...

WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

That was used for: "n : conjoining contradictory terms (as in `deafening silence')"


Again, a highly accepted and respected dictionary... nu?

 

[Plan 9]

[/color]
Ok... ???
I never thought you were. My comments concerning my views of "Hebrew Catholics" were not directed towards you Planny.

Alright... that's fair... how about Diametric?


Again, my comments concerning Hebrew Catholics were not directed towards you.

Fun???

quite hardly. I'm downright offended that people will abuse Messianic Judaism as such. I will let others choose whether they want to be Catholic, Jewish, etc. But I will not allow others to create their own definitions of Messianic Judaism. I've got it hard enough allowing what I consider a 'mess' into Messianic Judaism... I feel as though I've been generous enough with other people's rather loose definitions. However, I am going to draw the line somewhere. This is it dear.

Once more, I am not lumping "you" in with anyone. There is a difference between an earnest seeking of truth and those who want ot play the mix and match game.


I'm at a loss for words. I have been nothing but kind towards you. Via pm's, chats, posts, etc. I have done nothing but extend a gentle hand. Beyond that, I don't have any clue as to what you imply by stating I haven't given you any hope. I have always given the hope of HaShem's redemption. Where this comes from is beyond me planny.

I had considered you a friend here at the forums, but your recent attitude makes me at a loss for words.

What gives?

Shalom,
yafet

I've always considered you a friend, too, but I am a gentile protestant, and your remark included us all, as far as I can tell.
In addition, from what you, and others have told me, I can't convert to Judaism without vowing to reject Jesus ( I have reverted to that name to please you, even though I would prefer to use one closer to his real one) as Messiah, so I am trapped in a catch-22 from which I cannot escape. Have you read Catch-22, by any chance?

I would like some advice in what non-Hebrew subsitutes I can use in place of "Old Testament" and "New Testament", for I believe those terms to be incorrect, and to reflect replacement theology. Now that I know that it makes you feel unhappy when we use more correct the Hebrew terms, I don't really know what to do instead.

 

[Plan 9]

The mixing of catholocism and Judaism is, imo, a contradiction in the greatest sense.
A Jew sees Hebrewisms mixed with Catholic theology... as sloppy at best (though much worse comes to mind).

While there is no limitation on who one accepts as the messiah, there certainly is a limitation on what doctrines and theologies one attaches to that messiah. Catholocism and Judaism are a contradiction in terms when it comes to the messiah. To mix the two is a grave error.

Of course, imho, protestantism is just the little sister of Catholocism, and thus just as offending of a mixture... but hey, who's counting?

Again, this is my opinion. However, I'm quite sure that the Rabbis would agree with me.

Once again I will quote your post, Yafet. The bolding is mine, of course. My "attitude change", as believe you put it, dates from reading this, okay?
Of couse the Rabbis agree with you; this is why I will never be more than a "wannabe".

 

[Plan 9]

Actually, I have not. I meant to check it out last month from the library, but never did... ended up reading too much Palahnuik. Its something I've wanted to read for some time now.

I suggest you rent the film; it's excellent!

 

[iitb]

This thread has not been on-topic since page one, and has turned into petty arguing. Well, take your arguments to PM, because this thread is closed.

 

[iitb]

Okay, simchat_torah has asked that I allow him to get in a final defense of himself, so here it is:

In addition, from what you, and others have told me, I can't convert to Judaism without vowing to reject Jesus ( I have reverted to that name to please you, even though I would prefer to use one closer to his real one) as Messiah, so I am trapped in a catch-22 from which I cannot escape.

Neither can I...

You're not alone.
You see, while having Jewish heritage on both sides of my blood lines, I am still at a loss (more comma splicing I'm sure ). I must convert to be recognized when making Aliyah, or before the Beit Din. I was raised protestant (of sorts). While one of my parents was rather non-christian, the other was... and I was raised in a christian enviornment going to ch-rch (and all that includes).

I have begun the process of conversion with my Rabbi. However, that is temporarily on hold. You see, upon completing my conversion, I will stand before the Beit Din. I will be asked to deny Jesus as the messiah. I only have one option if I want to finish my conversion. But this entails two scenarios:
1) deny "j e s u s". Some have a problem with this for two reasons- some consider this denying the messiah. Others don't seem to have a problem as they view "j e s u s" not as the messiah, but Y'shua as the messiah. Let's pretend I don't have a problem with denying "j e s u s" for the sake of this example. so... this brings us to...
2) Deceiving the Beit Din. I could tell them that I don't believe in 'jesus' while not actually speaking the words "I deny Y'shua". This is the one that I have a problem with. While some can deny "J e s u s" without a guilty conscience, I still have a problem with deceiving the Beit Din. I know full in well what they are asking me. Do I believe that this man who lived approxiametely 2,000 years ago was the messiah?
Yes, I do.

My conversion is at a standstill right now my dear. I am caught in a conundrum (here I go, misusing words again). I can't be fully recognized as Jewish, though my bloodline says I am... yet I can't convert because of a simple belief in a seemingly messiah.

So I tell you this... you are not alone. In fact, I am probably in a harder place than you are! I have begun a conversion that I can not finish. How am I to come before my Rabbi and explain this one!

So please don't think I've alienated you. IN fact, I'll explain who I'm alienating in a bit...

Have you read Catch-22, by any chance?

Uhh... see my previous post. I was probably posting while you were reading a prior post, thus you missed my answer before posing the question again

I would like some advice in what non-Hebrew subsitutes I can use in place of "Old Testament" and "New Testament", for I believe those terms to be incorrect, and to reflect replacement theology.

Old Testament ---> Tenach

Tenach is an acronym for Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvi'im. Torah, of course, is the first five books of the Bible. Nevi'im are the prophets. Ketuvi'im are the writings.
TNK = Tenach
This is a perfectly acceptible term for 'old testament'.

New Testament ---> Brit Chadasha
In Hebrew, the term that is used in Jeremiah 31 "Brit Chadasha" literally means 'REnewed' covenant. Thus, many messianics will refer to the new testament by its Hebrewism... Brit Chadasha. New will often imply something that previously did not exist. There is nothing new in the "NT". You might argue that it is a revelation of secrets contained in the Tenach, but simply put... there is nothing 'new' there. Not to mention the term that was used in prophecy to describe this was Brit Chadasha... Renewed covenant.

Now that I know that it makes you feel unhappy when we use more correct the Hebrew terms, I don't really know what to do instead.

I don't lump you in with Aronbengilad. He is a Catholic who doesn't seek after Messianic ways. Instead, he chooses to use Hebrewisms in his Catholic faith. None of his theology represents Messianic Judaism, nor does he pursue MJ'ism. Instead, he chooses to 'flavor' his Catholicism with Hebrew words. This is deceptive to those who are looking at MJ'ism from the outside.

It is a different thing to be in transition... seeking after what MJ'ism might offer... going through phases. But to be a Catholic and to toss around Hebrew words is just plain deceptive.

You, my dear, have opened up to see what MJ'ism has to offer. While you may still wear the badge of 'protestant', you have decided to open your heart to Messianic Judaism.

This is quite different than "Hebrew Catholic" or "Messianic Protestant". These simply can not exist as movements, as they are *cough*oxymorons*cough*.



Shalom achoti,
Yafet

I tell you what, if the two of you can figure out a way to include others in this discussion, you are more than welcome to start a new thread, but this one is remaining closed.