The trials of Job

[2PhiloVoid]

I disagree with you that the Euthyphro Dilemma is fully dependent upon that particular metaphysical system. My second paragraph was very explicitly directed at monotheism instead, so I'm still not sure why you think it's superfluous. I can absolutely leverage the Euthyphro in defense of theistic Platonism over a different metaethical position like divine command theory.

We can question their metaethical properties as well and ask whether the ethical structure laid out in any given book has any basis in reality. I don't see how we can separate the moral question from determining which proposition most closely reflects divine reality--that is one of the ways we can distinguish between what reflects human foibles and what doesn't.

I think you're getting disturbingly close to moral subjectivism yourself here, since if I understand you correctly, you're refusing to independently form a basis for morality at all.

...I think we'll have to start a separate thread some time to investigate your claims. Maybe you're right.

 

[Silmarien]

...I think we'll have to start a separate thread some time to investigate your claims. Maybe you're right.

I think we've been saying that for at least a year.

 

[gaara4158]

What is the punch line, the reductio?

In general you seem to be saying that God's incomprehensibility implies God's untrustworthiness. If that is your argument, would you care to elaborate?

That is the gist of it, yes. Not to say he’s necessarily dishonest, but I wouldn’t go following him over moral cliffs.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think we've been saying that for at least a year.

...not in regard to roasting Divine Command Theories with Platonic pesto, we haven't!

 

[zippy2006]

That is the gist of it, yes. Not to say he’s necessarily dishonest, but I wouldn’t go following him over moral cliffs.

I suppose I agree in a way. I mean, we do consider Fear of the Lord a virtue.

 

[Par5]

In the Book of Job, it is written

not that God set back and had nothing to do with it, no,

it is written in the Book of Job that God had a lot to do with it,

so the Author of the Book of Job clearly knew and wrote that God had a lot to do with it.

How could you believe you understand the message ? And then ignore what is written in the Book of Job that is very clearly and without ambiguity stated ?

According to the story, god did indeed have a hand in the troubles inflicted on Job, but my take on that is that it was meant to show that even though Job felt he was being unfairly punished by his god, that there would be times when troubles would visit even the best of people and had nothing to do with god punishing them. Simply a case of things happen!

 

[Par5]

I never claimed I'm indeed having difficulty in this area. Having a degree in Philosophy, which heavily focused upon surveying and analyzing the various ethical positions of Social Philosophy that exist, has for the most part prevented me from feeling too much difficulty in this area ........

I may be getting on in years, but fortunately, I don't suffer from memory loss, so there is no need for you to keep reminding me of your academic prowess. I wouldn't want to form the opinion that I thought you were bragging. Goodness no!
So, if I asked you to assist me in robbing a bank, would it be a case of you going away and "analyzing the various ethical positions of Social Philosophy that exist" before you were able to tell me yes or no?

 

[gaara4158]

I suppose I agree in a way. I mean, we do consider Fear of the Lord a virtue.

Suit yourself, I guess. If God actually existed I’d fear him too, not out of reverence but just in the way we fear lions, tigers, and bears (oh my!).

 

[gaara4158]

I don't suppose you can help it really, but you continue to equate making necessary judgments concerning good and evil, with making judgments concerning God. They are not even nearly the same. You not only have no right, but you have no ability to judge him, as his works are his alone. We are not his peers.

And to go with that, can you explain why the First Cause with Intent would have any reason to create for reasons of malice?

I’m not interested in the type of judgment you’re denying me anyway. The type of judgement I’m applying to God is the only kind that’s relevant to my life, so that’s the one I’m talking about. I’m not worried about punishing or rewarding God, I’m just determining whether I should take him seriously as a moral authority.

I have no idea what a first cause would do either maliciously or otherwise.

 

[Hawkins]

I’m not interested in the type of judgment you’re denying me anyway. The type of judgement I’m applying to God is the only kind that’s relevant to my life, so that’s the one I’m talking about. I’m not worried about punishing or rewarding God, I’m just determining whether I should take him seriously as a moral authority.

I have no idea what a first cause would do either maliciously or otherwise.

The situation Christianity being about is similar to how your local law is enforced. You can't simply do whatever you want by neglecting what you local law says, or you will be trialed and jailed as a consequence.

 

[zippy2006]

Suit yourself, I guess. If God actually existed I’d fear him too, not out of reverence but just in the way we fear lions, tigers, and bears (oh my!).

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31).

 

[Silmarien]

Suit yourself, I guess. If God actually existed I’d fear him too, not out of reverence but just in the way we fear lions, tigers, and bears (oh my!).

Yo, Aslan!!!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I may be getting on in years, but fortunately, I don't suffer from memory loss, so there is no need for you to keep reminding me of your academic prowess. I wouldn't want to form the opinion that I thought you were bragging. Goodness no!
So, if I asked you to assist me in robbing a bank, would it be a case of you going away and "analyzing the various ethical positions of Social Philosophy that exist" before you were able to tell me yes or no?

If my first name is Robin, I just might ...... of course, it also might depend on who the poor souls will be whom we'll give the money to once we're done.

Let me check with my contacts in Sherwood Forest, read a little social philosophy, and I'll get back to you once I've calculated the weight between the Pros and the Cons.

 

[Par5]

If my first name is Robin, I just might ...... of course, it also might depend on who the poor souls will be whom we'll give the money to once we're done.

Let me check with my contacts in Sherwood Forest, read a little social philosophy, and I'll get back to you once I've calculated the weight between the Pros and the Cons.

I can't imagine you in green tights, but hey, if that's your thing go for it. Live and let live I say!

 

[gaara4158]

The situation Christianity being about is similar to how your local law is enforced. You can't simply do whatever you want by neglecting what you local law says, or you will be trialed and jailed as a consequence.

I await my punishment, then. Any day now.