I dont insult or look down on anyone. Im informing you of how you are coming across to me...hence the word "seem" I dont know you and never can....therefore i cant judge....
Clarifying to me that you were not judging me now personally is a little late to be doing so (Although it is appreciated); Also, it still does not appear like you were not judging me either (even with your recent explanation now). How so? Well, if I said to Bob that he appears to be like a thief, I am still saying he is a thief because he appears that way or seems that way by something he has done. In other words, you would need to add the words, "Not that I am sayng you are this, etc." But you didn't say that. Anyways, if I were to say to Bob that he appears like a thief and I did not provide a good reason as to WHY, I am blindly accusing him that he is one with no real evidence. To be seemly like something is to be like that thing. You did judge me on how I appeared to be (or how I seemed to be). That is still a judgment concerning me that I believe is wrong. It sounds to me like you are splittling hairs on your accusation towards me.
Also, you have not given any specific reason as for your accusations on how I appear to be the way that you suggest. The only time you are saying you are not judging me is now (Which is a little late to be saying such a thing). Granted, I do appreciate your saying you are not judging me, but it still appears even in after your recent explanation that when I re-read your previous post (I cannot see it in the way that you suggest). For to be like something is to be that thing.
RaymondG said:
just like you cant judge the hearts of the people giving money to the church building.
If you were careful to read what I had written, I had said that not everyone may tithe in the wrong way. But to assume that all self professing believers tithe with the right motivation is to simply not be aware of the human condition of man's sinfulness within the world. Man does what is wrong. This is why we see so many religions.
RaymondG said:
I dont believe tithes is monetary....so I give my tithes directly to the Lord and still give money freely to churches and anyone else God leads me to give to.
You are giving money and yet you do not consider it as a form of giving monetarily? Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
RaymondG said:
And I will always have to give because those who give, receives! it is a law! God has opened the windows of heaven and i dont have room enough to receive it all.....so I have to keep giving to make room.... you should be giving advise on who we can give to, instead of only telling us who not to give to.
Again, you did not read what I had said. I said that believers give openly and freely to the body of Christ directly (of those who are in true real need) and not to an organization with a big building and with church men who are on salaries. Paul said he worked so as not to charge for the gospel. Paul said we are to follow his example and his example was Christ. The problem I have is that you are thinking that the OT Law on 10% tithing of agriculture involving Israel (and not the Gentiles) is translated as saying that believers under the New Testament have to tithe 10% of their income to a church organization that has a building and a paid staff. It is written...
"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart,
so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7).
In other words, if you are obligated to give 10%, this is done of necessity and not out of openly giving because you want to give because you love the Lord and other people.
RaymondG said:
But you cant put money in heaven.....the money is only to use here.....so what are you talking about?
The Bible describes one of the ways to have treasures in Heaven is by selling what we have and giving money to the poor.
"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go
and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come
and follow me." (Matthew 19:21).
Another instance whereby a believer can have a reward in Heaven is when others speak evil against them falsely for Christ's sake.
11 "Blessed are ye, when
men shall revile you, and persecute
you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great
is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."
(Matthew 5:11-12).
RaymondG said:
Just to let you know....even if I did meet in someones house....I would still leave money, because there are bills that still need to be paid no matter where you meet.
Most people who have a home usually work and can afford to pay the bills on their own. Unless a brother specifically tells you they are struggling or is seeking to go on a long journey to preach the gospel (But lacks the funds), then that would be a good time to help them. Leaving them money when they do not need it is a waste of resources if you were to continually do so. That would be like trying to treat a healthy person. While it is a nice gesture to leave money (at first glance), that is actually a man made church practice or tradition that has slipped into your thinking that cannot be found in the New Testament. Yes, give and you will receive. But we should not give expecting to receive something. We give because we want to love the Lord and love other people. We want to lay down our lives for Christ. Our goal is not to receive but to give because it is our nature of wanting to love. Granted, I am not suggesting that you or others are giving so as to receive or that there is no love in your giving, but I am saying that it is a reality for certain religious people out there in the world today. The Lord said to the churches, "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have
somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." (Revelation 2:2-4).
RaymondG said:
How much money do you feel we have to give to support the preaching of your gospel?
It can be 100% free. A person can preach the gospel on the streets.
A person does not have to add any cost that they normally would not spend otherwise as a part of every day living. For they can preach Jesus to others on the internet even. As for the great commission: A person can sometimes inexpensively travel by car to their neighboring country to spread the good news, as well. But they should pray to the Lord where God wants them to go. If God is calling them to go to a far away country and they lack funds to go, the Lord will provide (And not by the body of Christ always). God will find a way for a believer to preach the good news.
RaymondG said:
And after you are satisfied with what we give to your cause, would it still be wrong if i chose to give some of the left overs to a church building? If so, Why? If not, why are you putting down those who do?
There are many reasons biblically why the church that exists today runs contrary to Scripture. The church today is about one man ruling over others whereby one man speaks and others are to be silent the whole time during fellowship. This is foreign to God's Word.
The Bible says,
1 Peter 5:3 GW
"Don't be rulers over the people entrusted to you, but be examples for the flock to follow"
2 Corinthians 1:24
"Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."
2 Corinthians 11:20 NLT
"You put up with it when someone enslaves you, takes everything you have, takes advantage of you, takes control of everything, and slaps you in the face."
Acts 15:25
"It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul."
1 Corinthians 1:10
"...that ye all speak the same thing, and
that there be no divisions among you; but
that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment"
1 Corinthians 12:7
"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal"
1 Corinthians 14:26 NASB
"What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification."
1 Corinthians 14:31
"For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted."
1 Peter 4:10-11
10 "As every man hath received the gift,
even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11 If any man speak,
let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister,
let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen"
Colossians 3:16-17
16 "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."
Colossians 2:8
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ"
Matthew 20:25-27
25 "But Jesus called them
unto him, and said,
Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:"
3 John 1:9 AMPC
I have written briefly to the church; but Diotrephes, who likes to take the lead among them
and put himself first, does not acknowledge my authority
and refuses to accept my suggestions
or to listen to me."
1 Corinthians 3:9 KJ2
"For we are laborers together with God: you are God's field, you are God's building."
Jesus is the great shepherd of the sheep:
Hebrews 13:20-21
20 "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom
be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
God rules in hearts by which we are called unto one body:
Colossians 3:15
"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful."
Christ is the head of the church:
Ephesians 4:15
"Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ."
Ephesians 1:22-23
22 "And hath put all
things under his feet, and gave him
to be the head over all
things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."
Jesus is the foundation:
1 Corinthians 3:10
10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
Jesus is the Rock:
Matthew 7:24-25
24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock."
1 Corinthians 10:4
"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
RaymondG said:
This doesnt make sense to me. you show me in the scriptures where traveling via cars, bikes, buses and planes to preach was practiced. Show me where paying to go to a gym was practiced. are you saying that everything not mentioned in the bible is wrong to do? or just the things your have decided are wrong?
Those things you list are not spiritual things. Worshiping God is a spiritual matter. So if we desire to seek to worship God in spirit and in truth, doing so according to Scripture and not our own way (or the BurgerKing way) is the safest way to do so. Another problem with the churches of today is that they are an assembly of people who are a mix of believers and unbelievers who worship God together. The church welcomes it doors to unbelievers to worship God. But a person cannot worship in spirit and in truth if they are an unbeliever. Unsaved people cannot worship God. They would be pretending. Scripture says, "What fellowship does light have with darkness?" Fellowship is gathering with other believers and not mixing in unbelievers so as to fellowship with you. Nowhere will you see this practice in the New Testament.
RaymondG said:
I think you are confusing your will with God's.
Not true. God's will is laid out within His Word. You stick to His Word and you are in line with His will. You venture outside of God's will on spiritual matters and you open yourself up to the danger of creating man made traditions that Jesus condemned the Pharisees for.
RaymondG said:
And if we cant do anything not mentioned in the bible, we all would have to live in caves.
Again, we are talking about spiritual matters here.
The Bible does not have rules on breathing or going to the bathroom in the New Testament. So obviously there are things we are going to do that are not in the realm of spiritual matters that we need to do as a part of living in a physical world.
RaymondG said:
Do you know that where are people that feel that you fit this category?
I am not allowed to say here on the forums without breaking it's rules.
But simply look around you at all the different religions and compare them to what Jesus does and see if they line up with what He did.
RaymondG said:
Since we are on the subject of Tithes....there are people who would say that because you dont give yours to the church, you dont want to follow Jesus or conform and just want to live your own way and spend your money your own way. And since you are always right and everyone else wrong...why cant they be as well?
Because there is no Scripture backing them in saying that such and such organization even exists let alone whereby it can even demand or command such a thing from the New Testament (Whereby no command exists).
RaymondG said:
You refuse to consider anything outside of your own beliefs, so why condemn others who want to do the same?
We both cannot be right.
I strive to show people what the Bible actually says.
If they don't like that, then that is on them (And they will have to give an account of themselves as to why the did not want to follow God's Word on matters relating to spiritual things).
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