The tip of the ice berg

[TLK Valentine]

It's ironic that you guys think we should live in caves, yet you'll balk when God uses methods that are so far above science, they aren't even natural.

When did you promote yourself to "God"?

 

[AV1611VET]

Who here has ever said that humans should live in caves?

Oh, nobody.

I just pulled that out of my hat.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Oh, nobody.

I just pulled that out of my hat.

Okay, fair enough. I thought I'd missed something.

Although no, tell, a lie. There are those anarcho-primitivism people. They confuse me to no end.

 

[AV1611VET]

But the whole point of a "miracle" is for God to demonstrate His power to convince nonbelievers....

And, pray tell, when it comes to the miraculous events of the creation week, who (specifically) was God demonstrating His power to? other than the angels?

Sure, it's possible that God could have taken Adam back in time and shown him what He did.

And sure, God can take the unbelievers back in time on Judgement Day and show them what He did.

But if everything He shows us conforms exactly to Genesis 1, what's the point you're making?

 

[AV1611VET]

When did you promote yourself to "God"?

Reply doesn't fit the post being replied to.

 

[AV1611VET]

Although no, tell, a lie. There are those anarcho-primitivism people. They confuse me to no end.

What?

1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Reply doesn't fit the post being replied to.

The post being replied to doesn't fit anything in the thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

The post being replied to doesn't fit anything in the thread.

Would you know it, if it did?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What?

1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.

Anarcho-primitivism. Anarchists who think we should go back to a pre-industrial society.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Would you know it, if it did?

The relevance would make it stand out from all your others.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And, pray tell, when it comes to the miraculous events of the creation week, who (specifically) was God demonstrating His power to? other than the angels?

Now you're getting it! There were no miraculous events... but when you tell the right stories, you don't need actual miracles...

 

[AV1611VET]

... but when you tell the right stories,

Would you know them if I did?

 

[driewerf]

To you someone must accept the TOE or they are wrong. To you there is no room to question be skeptical or reject it. You have more faith than you give yourself credit for

Of course not.
If someone can show a deep knowledge of the subject and reliable data that can refute it, then he or she will be worth to listen to. But just saying "I don't believe it" wont impress anyone. Come with data, hardcore data, and we can talk. But too few creationists say "I don't know much about it but it's wrong". Well, these are the honest ones, those that admit they don't know what they are talking about. And they are too few.
The vast majority hasn't even the humility to admit they don't know much about it.
But the theme of this thread is that, to maintain the YEC stupidity, all sciences are under attack. Because all sciences somewhere either give the ToE some credibility or contradict the narrow minded reading of the bible that the YEC's embrace.
What is under attack is the notion of empirical science. YEC's want to replace by just a choice "I don't believe it", or by arguments of authority "God's infallible word against that of fallible men".
In the mean time, museum staff is harassed or museum visits are disturbed:
The New Pulpit: Museums, Authority, and the Cultural Reproduction of Young-Earth Creationism
Teachers need to walk on eggs for not disturb their students' feelings:
Dealing with Disbelieving Students on Issues of Evolutionary Processes and Long Time Scales

As said earlier, i want good, solid, robust STEM education - wide spread, because you end up with a scientificcally illiterate population, in all the sciences.
https://www.hoover.org/research/scientifically-illiterate-america

 

[AV1611VET]

If someone can show a deep knowledge of the subject and reliable data that can refute it, then he or she will be worth to listen to. But just saying "I don't believe it" wont impress anyone.

Can a person say MUSIC CAN TAKE A HIKE without knowing the difference between classical music and one-hit wonders?

 

[driewerf]

Can a person say MUSIC CAN TAKE A HIKE without knowing the difference between classical music and one-hit wonders?

Yes.
That person would ban all music; without any distinction.
Just like you guys end up threatening all sciences without distinction.
For years your tag line was 'Science can take a hike"?

 

[BPPLEE]

Of course not.
If someone can show a deep knowledge of the subject and reliable data that can refute it, then he or she will be worth to listen to. But just saying "I don't believe it" wont impress anyone. Come with data, hardcore data, and we can talk. But too few creationists say "I don't know much about it but it's wrong". Well, these are the honest ones, those that admit they don't know what they are talking about. And they are too few.
The vast majority hasn't even the humility to admit they don't know much about it.
But the theme of this thread is that, to maintain the YEC stupidity, all sciences are under attack. Because all sciences somewhere either give the ToE some credibility or contradict the narrow minded reading of the bible that the YEC's embrace.
What is under attack is the notion of empirical science. YEC's want to replace by just a choice "I don't believe it", or by arguments of authority "God's infallible word against that of fallible men".
In the mean time, museum staff is harassed or museum visits are disturbed:
The New Pulpit: Museums, Authority, and the Cultural Reproduction of Young-Earth Creationism
Teachers need to walk on eggs for not disturb their students' feelings:
Dealing with Disbelieving Students on Issues of Evolutionary Processes and Long Time Scales

As said earlier, i want good, solid, robust STEM education - wide spread, because you end up with a scientificcally illiterate population, in all the sciences.
https://www.hoover.org/research/scientifically-illiterate-america

I admit that some YEC material I have read is misinformed and some of their arguments are based on scant examples. The last thing I am trying to do is impress anyone. I quit that a long time ago. I was taught the TOE in school over 40 years ago so I don't think there's any real danger of it not being taught in public schools. YEC's are entitled to have their own beliefs though. You can't force them to accept evolution anymore than they can force you to accept creation.

 

[ottawak]

You can't force them to accept evolution anymore than they can force you to accept creation.

Not for want of trying. The whole point of promoting anti-evolution is to get some form of right-wing evangelical prayer and theology into the publiic schools by way of science class.

 

[BPPLEE]

Not for want of trying. The whole point of promoting anti-evolution is to get some form of right-wing evangelical prayer and theology into the publiic schools by way of science class.

Not what I have been reading. Who is making this push? The ID people are the only ones I know of who tried that. I wouldn't want a public school teaching my kids anything about religion

 

[ottawak]

Not what I have been reading. Who is making this push? The ID people are the only ones I know of who tried that

It's been going on since the YEC revival in the 60s. Most of the political effort has been shifted to other fronts in the culture war lately.--abortion, guns, LGBT, immigrants, etc.

 

[BPPLEE]

It's been going on since the YEC revival in the 60s. Most of the political effort has been shifted to other fronts in the culture war lately.--abortion, guns, LGBT, immigrants, etc.

Immigrants? Wanting a secure border makes you a YEC fanatic? It sounds like you are lumping all the issues you disagree with into one category