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The timing of Pesach and the crucifixion--one last time

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Open Heart, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    The Orthodox celebrate the Resurrection at midnight.

    Exodus 11:4
    Moses said, "Thus says the LORD, 'About midnight I am going out into the midst of Egypt

    Exodus 12:29

    "Now it came about at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle."

    Psalm 119:62
    "At midnight I rise to praise you."

    Matthew 25:6
    "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him."
     
  2. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    So, Yeshua did not fulfill the Passover lamb because he was killed on the wrong day?

    Exodus 12:6 clearly says the lambs were killed on Abib 14, correct?

    Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
    Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
    Verse 7 is referring to Abib 14. Verse 8 shows Yeshua is still alive on Abib 14.
     
  3. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    It's just as likely that a 24 hr day in ancient times began at sunrise and ended at dawn just before sunrise for: Noah, Abraham, the Egyptians and the Israelites who were exiled for 400+ years in Egyptian culture. Abib may even be an Egyptian word just as Moshe is an Egyptian word. This timeline actually fits with Exodus 12:6-12 as occurring during Abib 14. Exodus 12:10 ... "nothing of it remain until the morning" ... the morning sunrise being the beginning of Abib 15 and the start of a new day. So, the end of the 24 hr day in ancient times was at dawn when stars were no longer visible.​

    Exodus 12:8 reads "in that night" (referring to the 14th) and Exodus 12:12 reads "For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night (the 14th), and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD". You get the impression in Exodus 12:6-12 that it's Abib 14, not Abib 15.​

    So, it's possible that Abib 14 began at sunrise (Exodus 12:8-12) with the same timeline two years later in Leviticus 23:5-6. So the lambs were slaughtered in the afternoon of Abib 14, and blood was smeared on the doorposts. Then the lambs were roasted between 3 to 6 and eaten during the evening twilight. The Death Angel came at mid-night (still Abib 14). Then the Israelites were told to get their things together and left Egypt on Abib 15. This 24 hr timeline from sunrise to dawn just before sunrise, and the beginning of the next 24 hr timeline fits with the Exodus 12 account of Passover activities during Abib 14.

    Exodus 12:39 (Abib 15)
    They baked the dough that they brought out of Egypt into thin cakes of unleavened bread. It had not been leavened because they were driven out of Egypt and could not wait, nor had they prepared provisions for themselves.​

    The Tanakh does not clearly define day and night or their divisions, such as "evening, morning, and noonday" (Ps. 55:18), the watches of the night (Ex. 14:24; Judg. 7:19), midnight or half the night (Ex. 11:4; 12:29), and the notion of "hour" is not mentioned at all. The duration of a "halakhic" day is from dawn until the appearance of the stars, i.e., a full solar day; it is divided into secondary periods, according to three systems: Day and Night

    It's possible that what has become known as the "halakhic" day didn't become ingrained into Jewish culture until the Babylonia captivity. This might explain differences in observing Pesach by various sects (e.g. Essenes and Sanhedrin) during the time of Yeshua.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  4. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Yahshua wanted to take part in the Passover with the disciples, but he knew he wouldn't.
     
  5. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    As far as everyone one concerned, Yahshua's death and burial fulfilled prophecy. I do not know of anyone who disagrees with that.
     
  6. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    I agree, but the Jews were not going to eat the Passover until the beginning of Abib15. Yeshua died at the end of the 14th. His last supper was the beginning of the 14th. Therefore, he did not die on the 13th. That is ani mpossibility.
     
  7. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    I agree, but the Jews were not going to eat the Passover until the beginning of Abib15. Yeshua died at the end of the 14th. His last supper was the beginning of the 14th. Therefore, he did not die on the 13th. That is ani mpossibility.
     
  8. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    I agree, but the Jews were not going to eat the Passover until the beginning of Abib15. Yeshua died at the end of the 14th. His last supper was the beginning of the 14th. Therefore, he did not die on the 13th. That is an impossibility.
     
  9. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    I agree, but the Jews were not going to eat the Passover until the beginning of Abib15. Yeshua died at the end of the 14th. His last supper was the beginning of the 14th. Therefore, he did not die on the 13th. That is an impossibility.
     
  10. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Duplicate
     
  11. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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  12. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Yes, it fulfilled prophecy, but it also fulfilled the shadow of the Passover lamb dying on Abib 14, not Abib 13.
     
  13. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Christ was kill Friday the 13th.
     
  14. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Christ was killed Friday the 13th.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  15. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    It was the 14th...
     
  16. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    What are your two most compelling pieces of evidence showing it was the 13th?
     
  17. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    John 19:28. Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." 29. A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. 30. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
    31. Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath[s.] Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath[s,] they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36. These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken," 37. and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced."

    The Burial of Jesus
    38. Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews. With Pilate's permission, he came and took the body away. 39. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. 40. Taking Jesus' body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41. At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42. Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.



    Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.



    The first day of the week is Sunday, but the first day of the week after the Sabbath is Monday. In keeping that commandment they did not go to attend Yahshua's grave on Sunday.


    Before the lunar calendar was introduced in 167 BC, the Feast of Bread was always on the first day, Sunday.



    The Feast of Bread.

    Levticus 23:7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  18. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    I see that CF is malfunctioning again.
     
  19. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    I see that CF is malfunctioning again.
     
  20. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    This says nothing about it being Abib 13. All we learn from this is that it was the day before a Sabbath. Why was the Sabbath of verse 31 a "special Sabbath" and why did you make it plural?


    This says nothing about Abib 13. It simply teaches us that the day he died was the preparation day.


    Verses 55-56 say nothing about Abib 13. Why did you cross out "in obedience to the commandment"? And what is all that other stuff you crossed out?
     
  21. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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  22. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    That is because THAT weekly Sabbath was also the 15th So Friday was the 14th.
     
  23. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    They would not have prosecuted on a Sabbath.
     
  24. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    They didn't...it was on Friday the 14th.
     
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