• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Time Gap between Dan.9:26 and 27

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The New Covenant was confirmed (not made) by Christ in His ministry to Israel for the first 3.5 years of the 70th week, and by His disciples for the last 3.5 years. It is an everlasting New Covenant, fulfilled in Matthew 26:28. The Roman armies, His instruments of destruction, set up the abomination of desolation in the temple. The OT sacrifices had no further efficacy after Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:16-18). Scripture refutes you.


What is it that "he" will do? The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years. Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people, usually known as the covenant of grace. "This, then, is a confirming of a covenant already extant, i.e., the covenant of God’s redemptive grace that Christ confirms (Rom. 15:8)," claims Dr. Gentry. Dr. Gentry and those advocating a similar view, must resort to a non-textual, theological interpretation at this point since there was no seven-year covenant made by Christ with the Jewish people at the time of His first coming. They must back off from the specifics of the text in verse 27 and import in a theological interpretation, thus providing us with a classic example of spiritualization or allegorical interpretation.[/font]

If this is supposed to be a reference to the covenant of grace, then "it may be observed first that this would be a strange way to express such a thought," notes Dr. Wood. Christ’s salvation covenant is not limited to seven years rather it is an eternal covenant. Daniel 9:27 says the covenant is to be made with "the many." This term always refers in some way to Israel throughout the book of Daniel (Daniel 11:33, 39; 12:3). Thus it is a narrow term, used in a specific context. It is not a broad term, synonymous with the language of global salvation. Further, "it is evident that the covenant is subsequent to the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of the City and the Sanctuary, in the twenty-sixth verse; therefore, it could not have been confirmed at the First Advent," says G. H. Pember. Such an interpretation does not fit this text and it does not account for the seven years that Gabriel says this covenant will be in place. Dr. Wood further explains:[/font]

Since a covenant as described in verse 27 has not yet taken place in reference to the nation of Israel, it must therefore follow that this will be a yet to occur future event. This then, demands a postponement of the seventieth week with a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years.[/font]

This passage clearly says that the length of the covenant that "he" will make will be for one week or seven years. I suppose that this could mean either that the covenant will be predetermined to last seven years or that it does not specify a length of time when made, but as it turns out, is only in existence for seven years. Many of those who believe that the entire prophecy of the seventy weeks has already been fulfilled around the time of Christ’s first coming teach that the first half of the seventieth week was fulfilled by Christ’s ministry. "We know Christ’s three-and-one-half-year ministry," says Dr. Gentry, "was decidedly focused on the Jews in the first half of the seventieth week (Matt. 10:5b; cf. Matt. 15:24)." G. H. Pember objects to such a view with the following:[/font]

Once again we have seen in this installment on the seventy weeks that the text of this passage supports a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the seventieth week is still future to the time in which we now live. "Israel has now been reestablished as a nation (1948), suggesting that the seventieth seven may soon begin." Maranatha!

By: Thomas Ice, PhD


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people, usually known as the covenant of grace.

Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 

............................................................

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

......................................................................
Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd

http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

....................................................

Apparently Dr. Ice does not understand that Daniel chapter 9 is about the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah found in Matthew 26:28, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:22-24.



.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What is it that "he" will do? The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years. Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people, usually known as the covenant of grace. "This, then, is a confirming of a covenant already extant, i.e., the covenant of God’s redemptive grace that Christ confirms (Rom. 15:8)," claims Dr. Gentry. Dr. Gentry and those advocating a similar view, must resort to a non-textual, theological interpretation at this point since there was no seven-year covenant made by Christ with the Jewish people at the time of His first coming. They must back off from the specifics of the text in verse 27 and import in a theological interpretation, thus providing us with a classic example of spiritualization or allegorical interpretation.[/font]

If this is supposed to be a reference to the covenant of grace, then "it may be observed first that this would be a strange way to express such a thought," notes Dr. Wood. Christ’s salvation covenant is not limited to seven years rather it is an eternal covenant. Daniel 9:27 says the covenant is to be made with "the many." This term always refers in some way to Israel throughout the book of Daniel (Daniel 11:33, 39; 12:3). Thus it is a narrow term, used in a specific context. It is not a broad term, synonymous with the language of global salvation. Further, "it is evident that the covenant is subsequent to the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of the City and the Sanctuary, in the twenty-sixth verse; therefore, it could not have been confirmed at the First Advent," says G. H. Pember. Such an interpretation does not fit this text and it does not account for the seven years that Gabriel says this covenant will be in place. Dr. Wood further explains:[/font]

Since a covenant as described in verse 27 has not yet taken place in reference to the nation of Israel, it must therefore follow that this will be a yet to occur future event. This then, demands a postponement of the seventieth week with a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years.[/font]

This passage clearly says that the length of the covenant that "he" will make will be for one week or seven years. I suppose that this could mean either that the covenant will be predetermined to last seven years or that it does not specify a length of time when made, but as it turns out, is only in existence for seven years. Many of those who believe that the entire prophecy of the seventy weeks has already been fulfilled around the time of Christ’s first coming teach that the first half of the seventieth week was fulfilled by Christ’s ministry. "We know Christ’s three-and-one-half-year ministry," says Dr. Gentry, "was decidedly focused on the Jews in the first half of the seventieth week (Matt. 10:5b; cf. Matt. 15:24)." G. H. Pember objects to such a view with the following:[/font]

Once again we have seen in this installment on the seventy weeks that the text of this passage supports a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the seventieth week is still future to the time in which we now live. "Israel has now been reestablished as a nation (1948), suggesting that the seventieth seven may soon begin." Maranatha!

By: Thomas Ice, PhD


Quasar92

The New Covenant was confirmed (not made) by Christ in His ministry to Israel for the first 3.5 years of the 70th week, and by His disciples for the last 3.5 years. It is an everlasting New Covenant, fulfilled in Matthew 26:28. The Roman armies, His instruments of destruction, set up the abomination of desolation in the temple. The OT sacrifices had no further efficacy after Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:16-18). Scripture refutes you.

1396 [e] 27
wə·hiḡ·bîr 27
confirm

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more strength, strengthen, be stronger,
A primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently -- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more (strength), strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 

............................................................

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

......................................................................
Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd

http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

....................................................

Apparently Dr. Ice does not understand that Daniel chapter 9 is about the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah found in Matthew 26:28, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:22-24.



.


Your above views have been refuted several times before. Why do you keep beating a dead horse? How seriously do you expect to be taken as an amateur lay person with no formal qualifications to teach the Bible, who tries to refute one who is a qualified teacher with a PhD degree? Review the following that refute you:

Our study of Daniel’s seventy weeks prophecy now moves to the final verse in the passage, which also deals with the final week of years.

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. (Daniel 9:27 NASB)

In this installment I will provide further reasons for a time-gap between the sixty-nine and seventieth weeks and note features from the text that support the interpretation that this seven-year period is the yet to come tribulation period.

Antichrist or Christ?

Right off the bat, the first question that arises in verse 27 is to whom does the pronoun "he" refer to? I believe that "he" must refer to "the prince who is to come" in verse 26. However, opponents of literal interpretation disagree. Preterist, Dr. Kenneth Gentry says, "[T]he indefinite pronoun ‘he’ does not refer back to ‘the prince who is to come’ of verse 26." Fellow preterist, Gary DeMar, insists "it is Jesus who ‘will make a firm covenant with the many,’ not the antichrist." Yet, such an errant interpretation violates the grammar and syntax of the Hebrew text.

In Hebrew grammar, as with most languages, a pronoun would refer to the nearest antecedent, unless there was a contextual reason to think otherwise. In this instance, the nearest antecedent in agreement with "he" is "the prince who is to come" in verse 26. This is recognized by a majority of scholars, including a number of amillennialists such as Kiel and Leupold. Only a priori theological bias could lead a trained interpreter of Scripture to any other conclusion. Robert Culver explains the correct meaning of this text as follows:

The ordinary rules of grammar establish that the leading actor of this verse is the Antichrist, the great evil man of the end time. . . . If the pronoun "he" were present in the Hebrew, a case might possibly be made for the introduction of an entirely new personality into the story at this point. However, there is no pronoun; only the third masculine singular form of the verb indicates that an antecedent is to be sought, and that of necessity in the preceding context. Usually, the last preceding noun that agrees in gender and number and agrees with the sense is the antecedent. This is unquestionably . . . "the coming prince" of verse 26. He is a "coming" prince, that is, one whom the reader would already know as a prince to come, because he is the same as the "little horn" on the fourth beast of chapter 7.

Leon Wood provides a list of further reasons for taking the "he" in verse 27 as a reference to "the prince who is to come" of verse 26.

Second, as noted above, the unusual manner of mention in verse twenty-six regarding that prince calls for just such a further reference as this. There is no reason for the earlier notice unless something further is to be said regarding him, for he does nothing nor plays any part in activities there described. Third, several matters show that what is now said regarding the one in reference does not suit if that reference is to Christ. (a) This person makes a "firm covenant" with people, but Christ made no covenant. God made a Covenant of Grace with people, and Christ fulfilled requirements under it, but this is quite different from Christ's making a covenant. (b) Even if Christ had made a covenant with people during His lifetime, the idea of mentioning it only here in the overall thought of the passage would be unusual, when the subjects of His death and even the destruction of Jerusalem have already been set forth. (c) The idea of the seventieth week, here closely associated with this one, does not fit the life or ministry of Christ, as will be shown presently. (d) The idea that this one causes "sacrifice and offering to cease" does not fit in reference to Christ in this context. The amillennial view holds that these words refer to Christ's supreme sacrifice in death, which made all other sacrifices and offerings of no further use, thus making them to cease in principle. But, if so, what would be the reason for such a statement (true as it is) in view of the purpose of the overall prediction? One could understand a direct statement concerning Christ's providing atonement for sin—though its placing at this point in the general thought order the passage would be strange—because that would be important to sin-bondaged Israelites. But why, if that is the basic thought, should it be expressed so indirectly, in terms of sacrificing and offering being made to cease?

It is safe to conclude that the immediate context of this passage and the book as a whole supports our understanding of this matter. This interpretation would also support a futurist understanding of verse 27.

The Making of a Covenant

What is it that "he" will do? The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years. Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people, usually known as the covenant of grace. "This, then, is a confirming of a covenant already extant, i.e., the covenant of God’s redemptive grace that Christ confirms (Rom. 15:8)," claims Dr. Gentry. Dr. Gentry and those advocating a similar view, must resort to a non-textual, theological interpretation at this point since there was no seven-year covenant made by Christ with the Jewish people at the time of His first coming. They must back off from the specifics of the text in verse 27 and import in a theological interpretation, thus providing us with a classic example of spiritualization or allegorical interpretation.

If this is supposed to be a reference to the covenant of grace, then "it may be observed first that this would be a strange way to express such a thought," notes Dr. Wood. Christ’s salvation covenant is not limited to seven years rather it is an eternal covenant. Daniel 9:27 says the covenant is to be made with "the many." This term always refers in some way to Israel throughout the book of Daniel (Daniel 11:33, 39; 12:3). Thus it is a narrow term, used in a specific context. It is not a broad term, synonymous with the language of global salvation. Further, "it is evident that the covenant is subsequent to the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of the City and the Sanctuary, in the twenty-sixth verse; therefore, it could not have been confirmed at the First Advent," says G. H. Pember. Such an interpretation does not fit this text and it does not account for the seven years that Gabriel says this covenant will be in place. Dr. Wood further explains:

Since the word for "covenant" . . . does not carry the article (contrary to the kjv translation), this covenant likely is made at this time for the first time (not a reaffirmation of an old one, then) and probably will concern some type of nonaggression treaty, recognizing mutual rights. Israel’s interest in such a treaty is easy to understand in the light of her desire today for allies to help withstand foes such as Russia and the Arab bloc of nations.

Since a covenant as described in verse 27 has not yet taken place in reference to the nation of Israel, it must therefore follow that this will be a yet to occur future event. This then, demands a postponement of the seventieth week with a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years.


For One Week

This passage clearly says that the length of the covenant that "he" will make will be for one week or seven years. I suppose that this could mean either that the covenant will be predetermined to last seven years or that it does not specify a length of time when made, but as it turns out, is only in existence for seven years. Many of those who believe that the entire prophecy of the seventy weeks has already been fulfilled around the time of Christ’s first coming teach that the first half of the seventieth week was fulfilled by Christ’s ministry. "We know Christ’s three-and-one-half-year ministry," says Dr. Gentry, "was decidedly focused on the Jews in the first half of the seventieth week (Matt. 10:5b; cf. Matt. 15:24)." G. H. Pember objects to such a view with the following:

if the Messiah could be the subject, and the time that of the First Advent, we should then be plunged into the greatest perplexity; for the Lord did none of the things that are mentioned in the twenty-seventh verse. To fulfil that part of the prophecy, He must have made a covenant with the majority of the Jewish people for seven years, neither more nor less. But there is no hint of such a covenant in the Gospels. And, indeed, one of the prophets has intimated to us, that the Lord, just before His death, suspended all His relations with the Jews, and through them with the whole of the Twelve Tribes. This exactly corresponds to the suspension of His dealings with the Jews at the close of the Four Hundred and Eighty-third Year, and to the facts of history. Still further, the very next verse of Zechariah carries us over the interval, and brings us face to face with the Prince that shall come, the Anti-christ, who will make the seven years' covenant on pretence of being the Shepherd of Israel. Lastly, Christ did not cause sacrifice and offering to cease, when He suffered without the gate: the Temple-services were carried on for nearly forty years longer.

Conclusion

Once again we have seen in this installment on the seventy weeks that the text of this passage supports a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the seventieth week is still future to the time in which we now live. "Israel has now been reestablished as a nation (1948), suggesting that the seventieth seven may soon begin." Maranatha!


By Thomas Ice


Quasar92



Quasar
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Your above views have been refuted several times before. Why do you keep beating a dead horse? How seriously do you expect to be taken as an amateur lay person with no formal qualifications to teach the Bible, who tries to refute one who is a qualified teacher with a PhD degree?

The LDS, JWs, et al have their PhDs as well.
 
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The New Covenant was confirmed (not made) by Christ in His ministry to Israel for the first 3.5 years of the 70th week, and by His disciples for the last 3.5 years. It is an everlasting New Covenant, fulfilled in Matthew 26:28. The Roman armies, His instruments of destruction, set up the abomination of desolation in the temple. The OT sacrifices had no further efficacy after Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:16-18). Scripture refutes you.

1396 [e] 27
wə·hiḡ·bîr 27
confirm

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more strength, strengthen, be stronger,
A primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently -- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more (strength), strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.


Definition o covenant: By Merriam Webster:

1:a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement :compact

Dan.9:27 is reference to a confirmation of a covenant/binding agreement, which is clearly for a seven year period of time. The context has nothing whatever to the eternal new covenant of grace Jesus ratified during His first advent. It will be, therefore, a new agreement made between the Antichrist with Israel and many others. The context of the passage has nothing whatever to do with the purpose of the new covenant Jesus established, for salvation, but rather, to Daniel's people Israel, and does not pertain to the Church in any way..


Quasar92
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The LDS, JWs, et al have their PhDs as well.


And your remark sonehow abrogates the PhD of Dr. Ice, together with a number of others who agree with him, pertaining to His articles on who confirms a covenant with many,, in Dan.9:27.

Supposing you provide me with a single PhD from either the LDS or the JW's who have any published material on the above specific issue.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How seriously do you expect to be taken as an amateur lay person with no formal qualifications to teach the Bible, who tries to refute one who is a qualified teacher with a PhD degree?

Dr. Gary Long and the staff of Providence Theological Seminary in Tennessee have rejected both Reformed Covenant Theology and modern Dispensational Theology.
These two systems of interpretation have been at war with each other since the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible.
Both of these systems of interpretation come to pieces in Galatians 3:16-29.
There we find that the Sinai Covenant was temporary in nature and that the promises made to Abraham were made only to the One Seed, who is Christ.


Dr. Long and his dedicated staff teach the Bible from a New Covenant perspective.

They have accepted the fact that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


Providence Theological Seminary

Based on your own standard, the teachers of this seminary are qualified to disagree with both you and Dr. Tommy Ice.

What is New Covenant Theology?
Pastor Douglas Goodin

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Dr. Gary Long and the staff of Providence Theological Seminary in Tennessee have rejected both Reformed Covenant Theology and modern Dispensational Theology.
These two systems of interpretation have been at war with each other since the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible.
Both of these systems of interpretation come to pieces in Galatians 3:16-29.
There we find that the Sinai Covenant was temporary in nature and that the promises made to Abraham were made only to the One Seed, who is Christ.


Dr. Long and his dedicated staff teach the Bible from a New Covenant perspective.

They have accepted the fact that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


Providence Theological Seminary

Based on your own standard, the teachers of this seminary are qualified to disagree with both you and Dr. Tommy Ice.

What is New Covenant Theology?
Pastor Douglas Goodin



None of which has precedence over the Word of God itself as interpreted literally, no matter which group man calls himself.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
None of which has precedence over the Word of God itself as interpreted literally, no matter which group man calls himself.


Quasar92
Still awaiting your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15.
 
Upvote 0

Copperhead

Newbie
Site Supporter
Feb 22, 2013
1,434
442
✟230,825.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
The New Covenant was confirmed (not made) by Christ in His ministry to Israel

I think you are taking some liberties with the text. You are correct that Yeshua confirmed the New Covenant, but there is nothing in the Daniel passage to indicate that it is the New Covenant that is being alluded to. Simply a covenant or agreement, irregardless of translation. Especially in light of the rest of Daniel 9:27 where it gives a good indication that he will break this agreement. The passage really doesn't fit if one assumes it is the Messiah. Messiah did not stop the sacrifice or offerings. As I stated before, the Jerusalem Council headed by the Lord's earthly brother James instructed Paul to make a purification offering at the temple. And Paul complied, and this was near the end of Paul's ministry time. Now that is two major figures in the church who didn't seem to think that Yeshua called a halt to the sacrifice and offerings.

My general assumption is that the false messiah will confirm the Abrahamic Covenant with Israel, regarding the land promised to Abraham and his descendants. Basically protection from their hostile neighbors that we see going on. But then later moves in, stops the sacrifice and offerings, sets himself up as the messiah in the temple, thereby breaking the covenant. At least it seems more plausible that this is what will happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quasar92
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Still awaiting your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15.


First of all, your question is off the subject of the thread. If you expect a reply, it requires a new thread with the proper subject. Any 12 year old can interpret Gen.3:15, FYI.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Messiah did not stop the sacrifice or offerings.


Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 



Mat_27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The New Covenant was confirmed (not made) by Christ in His ministry to Israel for the first 3.5 years of the 70th week, and by His disciples for the last 3.5 years. It is an everlasting New Covenant, fulfilled in Matthew 26:28. The Roman armies, His instruments of destruction, set up the abomination of desolation in the temple. The OT sacrifices had no further efficacy after Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:16-18). Scripture refutes you.

1396 [e] 27
wə·hiḡ·bîr 27
confirm

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more strength, strengthen, be stronger,
A primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently -- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more (strength), strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.


Your assessment that Jesus confirmed the New Covenant of Grace in the first 3.5 years of Dan.9:27, is completely false.

The 70 week prophecy predicted the Messiah being cut off/crucified, in verse 26. The 70th and final week, in verse 27 is completely detached from the first 69 weeks, which was completely fulfilled, by 70 A.D.

Jesus second coming is at the end of the 70th week prophecy, yet to be fulfilled, which is not revealed by Daniel in verse 27, but in Jesus amplification of it, in His Olivet Discourse, in Mt.24:4-31, He reveals it in verses. 30-31. As well as in the Mk.13 and Lk.21 counter parts.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 



Mat_27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

.


During the Millennial reign of Jesus, on the throne of David, in Acts 2:29-30 and 15:16, animal sacrificing will be reinstated, in the temple Jesus will build, as reorded in Zech.1\6:12-13. Review the following facts:

Why will there be animal sacrifices and Feast days and the Sabbath reinstituted in the Millennium period?

Zech. 14 tells us we will celebrate the feasts days along with the sacrifices, these will both be reinstituted in the millennium (Ez.44:1-46- 46:24)

Zech 14:16-18 “And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.”

v.21 “Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.”

Isaiah also says, Isaiah 56:7 “Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Isa 66:23 "And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD. Isa. 66:23 teaches that we will keep the Sabbath, it also teaches we will keep the New Moon festival! This is on earth in the Millennium period- not in heaven."

If the Sabbath and feast days and the sacrifices are done away with in Christ how do we reconcile these two seemingly contradictory positions? How can there be a return to the sacrificial system without taking away from the meritorious sacrifice of Christ?

Millennial Israel will have at its center the Temple. Sacrifices (Ezek. 40:38-39), will continually be done during the Kingdom Age (Ezekiel 45:13 – 46:15).The millennial offerings are distinctly Jewish nature, of Jewish history and will be administered by Jews, their commemorative purpose will be embraced by Gentiles who will join in celebration of the millennial King who will be on earth. This is made clear in Zechariah 8 v.23, 'In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him who is a Jew, saying, We will go with you for we have heard that God is with you'.

It will some similarities to Mosaic system and some new features. So it should not be mistaken for a reinstitution of Mosaic law system, since Moses sacrificial system did not take away sin but Jesus' last sacrifice did.

The problem is easily solved if we view them as being COMMEMORATIVE rather than EFFICACIOUS.

The sacrifices will be a memorial, just as communion is practiced today looking back. They will not be propitiation, or effacacious (they will have no power to redeem) but are a reminder of what took place. The reason this will be instituted is because there will be many unbelievers born in the Millennial period, they will be sinners that will need to understand the sacrifice Christ did. Since his sacrifice is the final one, that cannot be repeated the types he fulfilled will be illustrative of his accomplishment. Just as the church is commanded to continue the Lord's Supper until he comes.

In Isa. 53 the Servant of Jehovah’s sacrifice puts an end to all animals sacrifices. Just as the Old Testament sacrifices pointed forward to Christ, and found their fulfillment in the supreme efficacious sacrifice of Christ, so the millennial sacrifices will look back in commemorative fulfillment in the same manner. In other words, the sacrifices will be symbols to the millennial population of the prior sacrifice of Christ. Just as the church is commanded to continue the Lord's Supper until He comes, they will continue in these because He has come. It will also give testimony of his faithfulness to the Jews for whom he first gave these commands to.

The new moon festivals, the feast of tabernacles, and the Sabbaths, were set times among the Hebrews (not Gentiles) for the worship of God; in the Millennium these will be used as the reminders for the assembly of worship as God will be celebrated in all nations. As all Israel assembled in Jerusalem for the three great feasts under the Old Testament law of Moses, representatives of the nations will journey to Jerusalem every new moon and every Sabbath. The new moon was observed with sacrifices. The Sabbath will be kept by the Gentiles which also includes sacrifices; The Mosaic Law forbid Gentile to enter in the Temple (Deut.231-8), but it will be permitted by the new Law instituted by Christ in the Millennium (Ezek.46:1-5).The Gentiles will show their commitment to the covenant by keeping the Sabbath and the Feast days, thus having fellowship with God.

So, far from being contradictory, the millennial sacrificial system will be instituted as a commemorative celebration of the completeness of the last and efficacious sacrifice of our Saviour, Jesus Christ our Lord and redeemer. The temple will truly become a house of prayer for all nations.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Gentiles will show their commitment to the covenant by keeping the Sabbath and the Feast days, thus having fellowship with God.

In the New Covenant the Sabbath is not a day of the week.
It is the person of Jesus Christ, as revealed by Paul in Colossians 2:16-17.


Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath and the Feast days for us.
Our fellowship with God comes through a relationship with God's Son, as found in 1 John 2:22-23.


We find in Hebrews 8:13 and Hebrews 12:18-24 that in the New Covenant we are not come to the mountain that burned with fire, but instead to the New Covenant of New Jerusalem.
The New Covenant of Christ has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".


In Hebrews 13:20 the New Covenant is "everlasting".

You cannot have the lifting of the curse and a return to animal sacrifice at the same time.

Your interpretation of the Old Testament passages has produced a 1,000 year period when Christ will rule over a planet where sin and death remain for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ.
Numerous cults are based upon this same idea.


In 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 Christ returns in "flaming fire".
When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?



In 2 Peter 3:10-13 Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on the "day of the Lord" when He will appear like "a thief".
Peter was looking for the rotten, sin-cursed world to be "burned up" and "dissolved" at the Second Coming of Christ.


Either you are wrong or Peter was wrong.


In John 4 Christ told the woman at the well that worship would not be in earthly Jerusalem.

Joh 4:20  Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 

Joh 4:21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 


Joh 4:22 
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 

Joh 4:23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 


Joh 4:24 
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 


Either you are wrong or Christ was wrong.


.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
First of all, your question is off the subject of the thread. If you expect a reply, it requires a new thread with the proper subject. Any 12 year old can interpret Gen.3:15, FYI.


Quasar92
Then for someone of your vintage, it should be a complete breeze. I've opened thread "Genesis 3:15 Interpretation" to that end.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Your assessment that Jesus confirmed the New Covenant of Grace in the first 3.5 years of Dan.9:27, is completely false.

The 70 week prophecy predicted the Messiah being cut off/crucified, in verse 26. The 70th and final week, in verse 27 is completely detached from the first 69 weeks, which was completely fulfilled, by 70 A.D.

Jesus second coming is at the end of the 70th week prophecy, yet to be fulfilled, which is not revealed by Daniel in verse 27, but in Jesus amplification of it, in His Olivet Discourse, in Mt.24:4-31, He reveals it in verses. 30-31. As well as in the Mk.13 and Lk.21 counter parts.


Quasar92
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined...

2852 [e]
neḥ·taḵ
נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ
are determined
Verb

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
determine
A primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree -- determine.

You cannot cut off at 70 weeks if you've already cut off at 69 and decapitated the 70th.


Matthew 24 up to verse 28 was completely fulfilled in the first century. The Judean believers' flight and survival in response to Christ's admonition in verse 16 is more than sufficient evidence thereof.

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Us, them, and you were not some futurized fantasies. Christ was responding directly to His disciples and their questions in the discourse which followed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I think you are taking some liberties with the text. You are correct that Yeshua confirmed the New Covenant, but there is nothing in the Daniel passage to indicate that it is the New Covenant that is being alluded to. Simply a covenant or agreement, irregardless of translation. Especially in light of the rest of Daniel 9:27 where it gives a good indication that he will break this agreement. The passage really doesn't fit if one assumes it is the Messiah. Messiah did not stop the sacrifice or offerings. As I stated before, the Jerusalem Council headed by the Lord's earthly brother James instructed Paul to make a purification offering at the temple. And Paul complied, and this was near the end of Paul's ministry time. Now that is two major figures in the church who didn't seem to think that Yeshua called a halt to the sacrifice and offerings.

My general assumption is that the false messiah will confirm the Abrahamic Covenant with Israel, regarding the land promised to Abraham and his descendants. Basically protection from their hostile neighbors that we see going on. But then later moves in, stops the sacrifice and offerings, sets himself up as the messiah in the temple, thereby breaking the covenant. At least it seems more plausible that this is what will happen.
What covenant other than the New Covenant did Christ confirm during His 3.5 years of ministry?

Hebrews 10
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

If there is no more offering for sin, then such offerings are no longer recognized. If they are no longer recognized, they are for all intents and purposes stopped.

What specific passage are you referring to regarding purification?
 
Upvote 0

Copperhead

Newbie
Site Supporter
Feb 22, 2013
1,434
442
✟230,825.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
What specific passage are you referring to regarding purification?

My reference to Paul doing this, try Acts 21:17-26, specifically verse 26.

And if temple sacrifices are stopped from Messiah's death forward, there seems to be a contradiction with that idea and the millennial temple references in Ezekiel 40-44. Yes, even in the millennium there will be sacrifices and offerings. Yes, even sacrifices for sin, Ezekiel 43:19. One thing I don't think many realize, is that sin is not the only requirement for sacrifices and offerings at the temple. For example, A woman who had a child had to follow the purification laws and make offerings as required by the Law. Now it might well be that many of these sacrifices and offerings regarding the millennial temple may be to teach and remind those people go into and live in the millennial kingdom of the high standard of the Lord and point to the ruling Messiah, but they will be going on nonetheless.

Again, I think you are implying more than the text says in Daniel 9:24. The mention of H2852, which is an adverb in this text, has a meaning of confirmed and divided or marked out. And similar in some ways to H1285 briyt which means to cut and is the word used for covenant. The New Testament, in Hebrew, is Brit Chadashah. Brit would also be the Hebrew word one would use in regarding "cutting" orders in the military.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0