The third chapter of John

[janxharris]

I would like to discuss any and all of implications of this chapter of John's Gospel, but I will begin by focusing on what was meant by 'the name of God’s one and only Son'?

v.18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

To put the verse into context we might ask:

What is it that the 'everyone' are to believe (v.15)?
Don't the conjunctions 'for' in vv.16 and 17 maintain what it is that we are to believe when we get to v.18?

I say that v.15 is a call to believe in Jesus with a specific focus on the saving work of the cross - and this continues and includes v.18 - which means one is condemned for not believing it. We may then conclude that Christ was lifted up for all, for one cannot be condemned for not believing in what one has been excluded from.

14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.​

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[janxharris]

John 2:18-23
The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.

Acts 2:22
“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know."​

One believes in the name of Jesus through believing in His miracles, wonders and signs. Such acts accredited Him. The sign that Jesus offered to prove His authority was His very raison d'etre - His death and resurrection. So, quite clearly, in John 3:18, unbelievers are condemned for not believing in such miracles, signs and wonders.

Only if Jesus died for all can unbelievers be condemned.

 

[janxharris]

John 11:40-42
Jesus responded, “Didn’t I tell you that you would see God’s glory if you believe?” So they rolled the stone aside. Then Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, thank you for hearing me. You always hear me, but I said it out loud for the sake of all these people standing here, so that they will believe you sent me.”

 

[janxharris]

If Jesus was not sent for all men, why would He purposely thank His father out loud so as to demonstrate that He was sent from God so that they might believe? Jesus proves Himself even for those that then proceed to plot against Him. Quite clearly, He came for them too - to furnish them with proof of who He was. Likewise, His death.

 

[White Butterfly]

And Ofcourse more importantly His resurrection, which they tried plotted to hide and deny....
Acts 4.

 

[White Butterfly]

This must have grieved God the Father very much...

 

[White Butterfly]

There are those who still believe this to be true..

 

[Hammster]

If Jesus was not sent for all men, why would He purposely thank His father out loud so as to demonstrate that He was sent from God so that they might believe? Jesus proves Himself even for those that then proceed to plot against Him. Quite clearly, He came for them too - to furnish them with proof of who He was. Likewise, His death.

Eisegete much? You sure added a lot of stuff to one verse. And ignore what is there.

 

[Skala]

If Jesus was not sent for all men, why would He purposely thank His father out loud so as to demonstrate that He was sent from God so that they might believe? Jesus proves Himself even for those that then proceed to plot against Him. Quite clearly, He came for them too - to furnish them with proof of who He was. Likewise, His death.

John 3:16 says he was sent for believers.

Do a study on the word "hina" and look for it in John 3:16

 

[janxharris]

John 3:16 says he was sent for believers.

Do a study on the word "hina" and look for it in John 3:16

Unbelievers are condemned for what? They are enjoined to believe in Christ lifted up...but Calvinist's claim Christ wasn't lifted up for all. So are they to believe in Christ lifted up for someone else?

But we know Christ was lifted for everyone - His choice of analogy is clear where snake-bitten Israelites are provided for, and so are all men ('For the wages of sin is death...' and 'for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God').

 

[janxharris]

Eisegete much? You sure added a lot of stuff to one verse. And ignore what is there.

John 11:42
...but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me

I don't see that you have refuted my point.

 

[Hammster]

John 11:42
...but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me

I don't see that you have refuted my point.

If Jesus was not sent for all men, why would He purposely thank His father out loud so as to demonstrate that He was sent from God so that they might believe? Jesus proves Himself even for those that then proceed to plot against Him. Quite clearly, He came for them too - to furnish them with proof of who He was. Likewise, His death.

One, He doesn't say the He was sent so that they might believe. You added that. Two, He doesn't mention His death. You added that.

Like I said, eisegesis.

 

[janxharris]

One, He doesn't say the He was sent so that they might believe. You added that. Two, He doesn't mention His death. You added that.

but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.

I wasn't suggesting that v.42 said anything about his death - but, of course, you know John 3:14-18 and Acts 2:22

“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Christ death and resurrection was the climax of all His signs and wonders - and Jesus offered salvation to those that believed in Him through such events.

 

[Hammster]

but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.

I wasn't suggesting that v.42 said anything about his death - but, of course, you know John 3:14-18 and Acts 2:22

“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Christ death and resurrection was the climax of all His signs and wonders - and Jesus offered salvation to those that believed in Him through such events.

When all else fails, clutter it up.

 

[janxharris]

When all else fails, clutter it up.

So instead of providing a refutation you offer the above?

 

[janxharris]

There are those who still believe this to be true..

Not sure what you are saying here White Butterfly.

 

[janxharris]

John 20:30-31
Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[Hammster]

So instead of providing a refutation you offer the above?

Refute what? You left the conversation and threw a bunch of other stuff out there. How about keeping on point?

 

[janxharris]

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Believing in Jesus is believing that He is the resurrection and the life - and this would entail believing in His crucifixion. To suggest that Christ's death and resurrection was exclusive makes a mockery of Jesus' call to believe Him. For then it would be the case that those excluded would then be being asked to believe that Christ died and rose for someone else.

Jesus' claim to be the resurrection and the life is made as an objective fact, without any limitation as to who was provided for.

 

[Hammster]

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Believing in Jesus is believing that He is the resurrection and the life - and this would entail believing in His crucifixion. To suggest that Christ's death and resurrection was exclusive makes a mockery of Jesus' call to believe Him. For then it would be the case that those excluded would then be being asked to believe that Christ died and rose for someone else.

Jesus' claim to be the resurrection and the life is made as an objective fact, without any limitation as to who was provided for.

Actually, all He said was that the one who believes in Him will live. Please stop adding to scripture.