The things priests will not tell you.

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Ann M

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charlesseamanj,

Quoting a site that clearly indicates its belief that Catholicism is akin to a cult

" Roman Catholic theology asserts that God's grace is granted through baptism and infused into a person by the Holy Spirit. This then enables him or her to do good works which then are rewarded with heaven. Basically, this is no different than the theology of the cults which maintain that justification is by grace through faith and your works whether it be baptism, going to "the true church," keeping certain laws, receiving the sacraments, or anything else you are required to do. "

to validate your belief that the Catholic Church is wrong is not going to work for many. Christ taught us to "Love thy brother as thyself", not incite hatred in those with beliefs other than ours. Be a Samaritan.

CARM's position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture. Therefore, as a whole, Roman Catholics need to be evangelized. They need to hear the true Gospel.
 
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lmnop9876

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work of mercy to all! :D . to the poor original poster, who's gotten hacked up a bit for it, and to those reading it, to save their poor eyes. ;)
  1. CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
    1. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
      "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 3:24).


      "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).


      "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).


      "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).


      "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:8).
    2. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost," (Titus 3:5).

    CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"

    1. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name," (John 1:12).


      "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).


      "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).


      "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself," (Heb. 7:25-27).
    2. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day," (2 Tim. 1:12).

    Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

    1. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
    2. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).

    Canon 23:"lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."
    1. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him," (John 3:36).

      "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day," (John 6:40).


      "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand," (John 10:28).


      "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord," (Rom. 5:21).


      "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us," (1 John 2:19).
    2. "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God," (1 John 5:13).
    Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."
    1. "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:1-3).
    2. "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law," (Gal. 5:1-3).
    Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."
    1. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
    2. "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross," (Col. 2:13-14).
  2. Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.
    1. This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned.
 
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Ann M

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Gal 5:1 Stand fast and be not held again under the yoke of bondage.

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul tell you, that if you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man circumcising himself that he is a debtor to do the whole law.


Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.

Gal 5:5 For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by Charity.

Gal 5:7 You did run well. What hath hindered you, that you should not obey the truth?

Gal 5:8 This persuasion is not from him that calleth you.

Gal 5:9 A little leaven corrupteth the whole lump.

Gal 5:10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will not be of another mind: but he that troubleth you shall bear the judgment, whosoever he be.

Gal 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? Then is the scandal of the cross made void.

Gal 5:12 I would they were even cut off, who trouble you.

Gal 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called unto liberty. Only make not liberty an occasion to the flesh: but by charity of the spirit serve one another.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another: take heed you be not consumed one of another.

Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the spirit: and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the spirit: and the spirit against the flesh: For these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest: which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects,

Gal 5:21 Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity,

Gal 5:23 Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law.


Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 Let us not be made desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
 
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joyfulthanks

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IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
Don't make excuses. You are being lazy. Are you doing this for the Glory of God? If the answer is yes, then clean it up a bit so people will be able to understand the points you are making and you will be a more effective evangelist.

May the Lord cause His face to shine upon you. May He be gracious to you and give you His peace.

Your brother in Christ.

Please listen to Ignatius on this point. As a protestant, I'm sure I fall squarely in your camp on this, so I'm not saying this because I'm against the point you're trying to make. I'll never know for sure, though, because the OP is so long and messy with all the extra junk included that it's too difficult to read.

If you don't care enough about what you are saying to take the time to make your posts legible, why would you expect us to care enough to take the time to read them?

Ignatius is right, if you are doing something for God's glory, do your best work. Many more people will read what you have to say, and they will take what you say more seriously, which, I assume, is what you want.

I also believe that Ignatius was trying to help you by saying what he said. As a person who disagreed with what you were saying, he was nevertheless kind enough to tell you something that would help your posts get more attention and respect. It would have been far easier for him to have just let you go on your way, knowing that not many people would not bother to read your post the way it was, but he didn't. He probably could have said what he did in a gentler manner, but I believe his intentions were to help you.

With love in Christ,
Grace
 
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charlesseamanj

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GraceMercyPeace said:
Please listen to Ignatius on this point. As a protestant, I'm sure I fall squarely in your camp on this, so I'm not saying this because I'm against the point you're trying to make. I'll never know for sure, though, because the OP is so long and messy with all the extra junk included that it's too difficult to read.

If you don't care enough about what you are saying to take the time to make your posts legible, why would you expect us to care enough to take the time to read them?

Ignatius is right, if you are doing something for God's glory, do your best work. Many more people will read what you have to say, and they will take what you say more seriously, which, I assume, is what you want.

I also believe that Ignatius was trying to help you by saying what he said. As a person who disagreed with what you were saying, he was nevertheless kind enough to tell you something that would help your posts get more attention and respect. It would have been far easier for him to have just let you go on your way, knowing that not many people would not bother to read your post the way it was, but he didn't. He probably could have said what he did in a gentler manner, but I believe his intentions were to help you.

With love in Christ,
Grace

I took your advice and re-created the op.
 
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ScottBot

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PaladinValer said:
What did those oddball Ten Commandments teach?

Something about not bearing false witness against your neighbor?

No?

**Throws out his Bible**
Hey PV, I still got my fireplace going from my own bible burning, there's room. If your gonna get rid of that bible, do it the good old Catholic way and incinerate it. ;)
 
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charlesseamanj

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Scott_LaFrance said:
Hey PV, I still got my fireplace going from my own bible burning, there's room. If your gonna get rid of that bible, do it the good old Catholic way and incinerate it. ;)
Yet another thing the Catholic church preferrs not to say about their past.;)
 
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holeinone

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Catholic Dude said:
First of all "anathema" is an official excommunication from the Church, not a "curse" from God. It comes after willful rejection of full knowledge of a Church teaching.
I would like to talk about this subject but you should first talk to the mods about reediting your post so people can read was you put. eg erase all those tags and stuff.


I believe that is how the church attempts to render the word today, I do not believe that was the initial intent .
It was a curse against Luther and those that followed him out of the church

This was a time when the church used latin and greek

Anathema is actually a BIBLICAL word and principle

1Cr 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.


Anathema ( from the greek)

1) a thing set up or laid by in order to be kept
a) specifically, an offering resulting from a vow, which after being consecrated to a god was hung upon the walls or columns of the temple, or put in some other conspicuous place
2) a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed, and if an animal, to be slain; therefore a person or thing doomed to destruction
a) a curse
b) a man accursed, devoted to the direst of woes



Every Pope affirms trent so the curse still stands.

I wear the curse with pride :)
 
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holeinone

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charlesseamanj said:
So you agree with the curses ageanst those who put faith in Jesus Christ?

Why would I "agree with them?
I left that church by the grace and mercy of God.
The error of men to curse those that have faith in Christ alone will one day be a curse to those that cursed the gospel

Are you in agreement with thr RCC's views? Are youn aware that they curse those who have faith, trust, and hope in Jesus?

I think you missed my point , you may want to go back and try again

So are you wearing the abomanations of the RCC with pride?

Yes, I wear that curse with pride for it is meaningless, it only exposes the heart of those that laid that curse on Luther and those that follow God not men .

One day the curse will return to the sender


Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
 
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Llauralin

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charlesseamanj said:
The Image Controversy (the Iconoclasts)

At the beginning of the 8th century, Leo III, emperor of the
Eastern Roman empire, attacked the use of images as aids in
worship. As such, he was the first leader of the iconoclasts
(image breakers). Statues and icons of Jesus, Mary, and
various other holy men and women were being used as aids in
worship, and many ordinary Christians were failing to
distinguish between the spiritual reality represented by the
image and the image itself. Leo III came into power after a
series of military defeats. There was also a major
earthquake at the beginning of his reign. Some scholars have
speculated the Leo launched his attack on the use of images
because he felt that these disasters were the result of God's
judgement. Other scholars think that he might have yielded
to pressure from Jews and Muslims who stated that Christians
were no longer obeying the commandment against idolatry. In
any case, Leo III and successors for the next century or so
fought against the use of images in worship. In 753,
Constantine V, Leo's son, called a synod at which a gathering
of 338 bishops produced the statement below:


The Synod of Constantinople (Hiera, 753 AD)

When, however, they are blamed for undertaking to depict the
divine nature of Christ, which should not be depicted, they
take refuge in the excuse: We represent only the flesh of
Christ which we have seen and handled. But that is a
Nestorian error. For it should be considered that that flesh
was also the flesh of God the Word, without any separation,
perfectly assumed by the divine nature and made wholly
divine. How could it now be separated and represented apart?
So is it with the human soul of Christ which mediates between
the Godhead of the Son and the dullness of the flesh. As the
human flesh is at the same time flesh of God the Word, so is
the human soul also soul of God the Word, and both at the
same time, the soul being deified as well as the body, and
the Godhead remained undivided even in the separation of the
soul from the body in his voluntary passion. For where the
soul of Christ is, there is also his Godhead; and where the
body of Christ is, there too is his Godhead. If then in his
passion the divinity remained inseparable from these, how do
the fools venture to separate the flesh from the Godhead, and
represent it by itself as the image of a mere man? They fall
into the abyss of impiety, since they separate the flesh from
the Godhead, ascribe to it a subsistence of its own, a per-
sonality of its own, which they depict, and thus introduce a
fourth person into the Trinity. Moreover, they represent as
not being made divine, that which has been made divine by
being assumed by the Godhead. Whoever, then, makes an image
of Christ, either depicts the Godhead which cannot be de-
picted, and mingles it with the manhood (like the Mono-
physites), or he represents the body of Christ as not made
divine and separate and as a person apart, like the
Nestorians.

The only admissible figure of the humanity of Christ, how-
ever, is bread and wine in the holy Supper. This and no
other form, this and no other type, has he chosen to
represent his incarnation . . .


Thirty-five years later, Irene, the regent for Constantine
VI, called another council at which 350 bishops repudiated
the decision documented above. The result of their
deliberations is given below:


Council of Nicaea (7th Ecumenical,787 AD)

To make our confession short, we keep unchanged all the
ecclesiastical traditions handed down to us, whether in
writing or verbally, one of which is the making of pictorial
representations, agreeable to the history of the preaching of
the Gospel, a tradition useful in many respects, but
especially in this, that so the incarnation of the Word of
God is shown forth as real and not merely fantastic, for
these have mutual indications and without doubt have also
mutual significations.

We, therefore, following the royal pathway and the divinely
inspired authority of our Holy Fathers and the traditions of
the Catholic Church (for, as we all know, eth Holy Spirit
indwells her), define with all certitude and accuracy that
just as the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross, so
also the venerable and holy images, as well in painting and
mosaic as of other fit materials, should be set forth in the
holy churches of God, and on the sacred vessels and on the
vestments and on hangings and in pictures both in houses and
by the wayside, to wit, the figure of our Lord God and
Saviour Jesus Christ, of our spotless Lady, the Mother of
God, of the honourable Angels, of all Saints and of all pious
people. For by so much more frequently as they are seen in
artistic representation, by so much more readily are men
lifted up to the memory of their prototypes, and to a longing
after them; and to these should be given due salutation and
honorable reverence not indeed that true worship of faith
which pertains alone to the divine nature; but to these, as
to the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross and to
the Book of the Gospels and to the other holy objects,
incense and lights may be offered according to ancient pious
custom. For the honor which is paid to the image passes on
to that which the image represents, and he who reveres the
image reveres in it the subject represented . . .
You think they're diding that? Ever head of the service of the Triumph of Orthodoxy?

On that note, have you ever actually had an honest conversation with a real priest? I'm getting the impression you haven't.
 
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FreeinChrist

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charlesseamanj said:
So you agree with the curses ageanst those who put faith in Jesus Christ?

Are you in agreement with thr RCC's views? Are youn aware that they curse those who have faith, trust, and hope in Jesus?


So are you wearing the abomanations of the RCC with pride?

Your comments are ridiculous and offensive!
 
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