The Thief On The Cross, Thoughts Please

[ChristServant]

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

This passage above puzzled me for some time until I found out original scripture was void of the use of commas. My thoughts are now, that the comma in the sentence should not have been used after YOU but after TODAY. The reason I say this is because how could the thief of been with Christ that same day in paradise when Christ wasn't in paradise but was dead for 3 days and then risen and then after quite some time went to Heaven.

Any other thoughts on this will be greatly recieived.


Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

luke 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Abraham's bosom - This is a phrase taken from the practice of reclining at meals, where the head of one lay on the bosom of another, and the phrase, therefore, denotes intimacy and friendship. See the notes at Matthew 23:6. Also John 13:23; John 21:20. The Jews had no doubt that Abraham was in paradise. To say that Lazarus was in his bosom was, therefore, the same as to say that he was admitted to heaven and made happy there. The Jews, moreover, boasted very much of being the friends of Abraham and of being his descendants, Matthew 3:9. To be his friend was, in their view, the highest honor and happiness. Our Saviour, therefore, showed them that this poor and afflicted man might be raised to the highest happiness, while the rich, who prided themselves on their being descended from Abraham, might be cast away and lost forever.barnes

hope this helps !!!

 

[Francis Drake]

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

This passage above puzzled me for some time until I found out original scripture was void of the use of commas. My thoughts are now, that the comma in the sentence should not have been used after YOU but after TODAY. The reason I say this is because how could the thief of been with Christ that same day in paradise when Christ wasn't in paradise but was dead for 3 days and then risen and then after quite some time went to Heaven.

You cannot claim the commas are void, and then choose where you want it to be.

The intention of the phrase, "Today you will be with me in Paradise," is very clear.
If you insist the word "today" belongs in the previous phrase, then that word becomes a completely unnecessary and useless word, which adds no value.

If your chosen meaning for the sentence is correct, then in adding an utterly useless word, God has become the author of confusion!

 

[Spiritual Jew]

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

This passage above puzzled me for some time until I found out original scripture was void of the use of commas. My thoughts are now, that the comma in the sentence should not have been used after YOU but after TODAY. The reason I say this is because how could the thief of been with Christ that same day in paradise when Christ wasn't in paradise but was dead for 3 days and then risen and then after quite some time went to Heaven.

Any other thoughts on this will be greatly recieived.

The comma is in the correct place. Are you aware of any English translations that place the comma where you do? I'm not. So, do you think you understand Greek better than all of the English translators? Probably not. The translators knew what they were doing.

If you read a little further after that verse (Luke 23:43) you can see that it says this:

Luke 23:46: Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Do you believe that when we die our spirits go to be with the Lord in heaven? Paul taught that.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

So, what Jesus was telling the thief on the cross is on that very day his spirit would go to paradise (third heaven - 2 Cor 12:1-4) to be with the Christ's spirit there. Notice in verse 46 that Jesus committed his spirit to the Father right before He died. Only His body was in the grave for 3 days after He died, not His spirit.

 

[mkgal1]

Any other thoughts on this will be greatly recieived.

I agree. I believe these verses support what you're saying as well. Jesus was telling the thief that on that day.....but until the copy on earth was destroyed... the way in to the heavenly Holy of Holies had not been opened:

Hebrews 9:8
By these regulations the Holy Spirit revealed that the entrance to the Most Holy Place was not freely open as long as the Tabernacle and the system it represented were still in use.
​

......there was a time to wait (but I believethat waiting ended in 70 AD):

Revelation 6:9-10
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”​

 

[mlepfitjw]

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

This passage above puzzled me for some time until I found out original scripture was void of the use of commas. My thoughts are now, that the comma in the sentence should not have been used after YOU but after TODAY. The reason I say this is because how could the thief of been with Christ that same day in paradise when Christ wasn't in paradise but was dead for 3 days and then risen and then after quite some time went to Heaven.

Any other thoughts on this will be greatly recieived.


Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ

@ChristServant. Assuredly the Lord Jesus died, and went into the Paradise Part of She'ol/Hell. The Thief ended up there with him, afterwards the Lord went onward from the Paradise part of She'ol/Hell, to the Prison side of it. He came proclaiming a message to the souls from Noahs day. After three days of this spiritual travel, God raised the Lord Jesus Christ back from the dead.

1 Peter 3: 18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit,

19in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison

20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

 

[1213]

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

This passage above puzzled me for some time until I found out original scripture was void of the use of commas. My thoughts are now, that the comma in the sentence should not have been used after YOU but after TODAY. The reason I say this is because how could the thief of been with Christ that same day in paradise when Christ wasn't in paradise but was dead for 3 days and then risen and then after quite some time went to Heaven...

I have understood that people who die, go either to paradise, or to hades and there they wait until the judgment day. So, grave, or death is either paradise or hades. And when the final judgment comes, people are raised from hades or paradise and sent to hell, or “heaven”. And this is why Jesus could be in paradise with the person that day.

 

[Der Alte]

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
This passage above puzzled me for some time until I found out original scripture was void of the use of commas. My thoughts are now, that the comma in the sentence should not have been used after YOU but after TODAY. The reason I say this is because how could the thief of been with Christ that same day in paradise when Christ wasn't in paradise but was dead for 3 days and then risen and then after quite some time went to Heaven.
Any other thoughts on this will be greatly recieived.
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him
We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.
Peace be with all those in the body of Christ

For the past 2000+ years Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox. Who better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible know the meaning of Greek words.

EOB Luke 25:43 And Jesus said to him, “Amen, I tell you: today, you will be with me in Paradise.”
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (Lk 23:42–43). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.​

One early church writer had this to say.
Philip Schaff: ANF08. The Twelve Patriarchs, Excerpts and Epistles, The Clementia, Apocrypha, Decretals, Memoirs of Edessa and Syriac Documents, Remains of the First Age - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

The Narrative of Joseph.
And the robber having thus spoken, Jesus says to him: Amen, amen; I say to thee, Demas, that to-day thou shalt be with me in paradise. (Luk_23:43) And the sons of the kingdom, the children of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and Moses, shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Mat_8:11, Mat_8:12) And thou alone shalt dwell in paradise until my second appearing, when I am to judge those who do not confess my name. ​

 

[Timtofly]

Paradise is the Garden of Eden. Can someone tell me how a place where Adam and all his descendants were banned from ended up underground in sheol, if no one was allowed in it? It was the temple of God on earth and Adam was the first priestly caretaker. Why in sheol would it not be with God in heaven?

The only reason the thief could enter Paradise (which he most certainly did and received an incorruptible body), is only the Atonement of Jesus on the Cross removed the ban that declared humans off limits. Those in Abraham's bosom could not enter Paradise until Jesus declared, "It is finished". At that moment they came out of their graves. It was the first Resurrection because Matthew placed it there and not Sunday morning. They had their new body, because it was allowed in Paradise.

That was the one and only last day Resurrection of the church, those in Christ, declared from OT writings. The firstfruits of the coming NT church. Now you all can argue what and when of Jesus Christ went where till you are blue in the face. Some time, late Sunday before 6pm, Jesus and those OT saints ascended to heaven. Because that morning Jesus could not be touched until He ascended. Later he could be touched by Thomas, who missed the first upper room meeting. Remember that Jesus was God, Christ, the Holy Spirit while also a human body, human soul, and human spirit, all 6 parts in one body. Before the Cross on the Mt. Of Transfiguration he showed the full image of God in a robe of radiant light. So explain to me where all 6 parts went? God went back to heaven and Paradise. God was there when a few hours later the thief's soul went from one body to the permanent body in Paradise. Paradise had been opened for a few hours.

Now explain that the OT saints waited until Jesus ascended on Sunday afternoon. Only the thief could go, because he could not enter Abraham's bosom. It stopped existing a few hours before the thief died. The OT believers did not return to Abraham's bosom. Also only the human shell, that was no longer God nor contained a soul or spirit, because it died, was in the grave. Why did it change, and could no longer be found, when the tomb was opened, found empty? Did Jesus need a human body Now? Whatever is was, it was no longer bound by the laws of physics.

The OT believers did not need to die again, they ascended to Paradise the first time Jesus did with Jesus and were presented as one body to God in Paradise. The only other humans there would be Moses and Enoch/Elijah and the thief who Jesus claimed was in Paradise after his soul left the body on his cross and entered his permanent body in Paradise that day.

Of course God was there and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what went to heaven when Jesus said, "It is finished". The souls went and preached in Abraham's bosom, and the God body. Literally, the only part that had to go into the tomb, was the human body, not the Christ body. But who can truly say, as it was not spelled out in precise detail? One cannot deny that Jesus when on the cross was fully God, all 3 beings, and fully human, body, soul, and spirit. That was the precise moment in history where God Himself redeemed Adam's descendants back to Himself. It had been planned before the foundation of creation.

 

[Dkh587]

Jesus did not go to paradise that day. He died, and was dead for 3 days & 3 nights.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jesus did not go to paradise that day. He died, and was dead for 3 days & 3 nights.

I disagree. Only His body died. His spirit didn't die.

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” 44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

 

[Dkh587]

I disagree. Only His body died. His spirit didn't die.

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” 44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

David used the same phrase when he was alive and not dying

Psalm 31:5
Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Yahweh God of truth.

We need to determine what it means to commit our spirit into God’s hands, particularly for David to do so while
He was still alive.

 

[WebersHome]

.
FAQ: In some Bibles; Jesus told one of his fellow prisoners that they would be in paradise the very day of their deaths (Luke 23:43). But three days later he told Mary Magdalena that he had not yet ascended to his Father (John 20:17). How do you reconcile Jesus' statements?

A: Well, of one thing we can be very certain: when Jesus died, he didn't go up; quite the opposite direction: he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps 16:9-10, and Acts 2:25-31)

Paradise is structured such that its elements exist in more than one place. For example: a city park system consists of any number of parks located in any number of places, yet each individual park can still be correctly called a city park.

For another example; the Pacific Crest Trail (a.k.a. PCT) traverses the north/south length of three states-- California, Oregon, and Washington. No matter where trekkers might be located on the trail at any given moment-- whether south at mile No.1 in Campo San Diego, or 2,140 trail-miles to the north at Cascade Locks Oregon --they're all on the very same PCT regardless of which State they happen to be passing thru.

Paradise is sort of like that. There's a section of it in the netherworld (Luke 16:19-31) another in a secret region called the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2-4) and yet another situated with God. (Rev 2:7)
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