The theory of evilution seems to be contradictory.

[ecco]

I wonder how people living in central and southern Africa survived before 1500 AD what with all the predators sharing the land with them.

I guess they didn't. I guess they were all eaten up.

 

[SkyWriting]

Man cannot eat raw meat and definitely cannot eat meat that is not fresh. Every other predator is able to eat raw meat and meat that is not fresh. Why has evolution favored a creature with such special dietary restrictions? When man first hunted, man must have also had access to fire. The ability to create fire precedes the ability to hunt. It is safe to therefore to assume, that man must have been a herbivore. Then after discovering how to make fire, man was only then enabled to hunt. Our evolutionary digestive system does not favor man as a hunter. I reject the notion that man was ever an omnivore by evolutionary design.

Biologically there is no innate problem with raw or rotten meat.
It has been determined that the use of fire to cook food reduced
the amount of calories used for digestion and allowed faster
eating of more calories which allowed the brain to grow for humans.

Based on the calorie requirements for our brain, there would not be enough
time in the day to hunt and gather the needed calories.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...t-meat-the-brains-of-early-humans-grew-bigger

 

[Strathos]

The majority of the Korowai clans live in tree houses on their isolated territory.

SOURCE
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korowai_people

Let's not be any more stupid about this than we have to be.

But that's still technically living in trees

I think the more important consequence of this is that it pretty much debunks any claims that humans can't have lived in trees. BTW: Is anyone claiming that before civilisation, in the wild state, that humans primarily lived in trees?

Probably not.

 

[crjmurray]

But that's still technically living in trees

Not in the sense we are discussing.

 

[ecco]

RE:
Man cannot eat raw meat.

I know this has been beaten to death but...
I have eaten raw meat (and raw eggs in the from of eggnog) since I was a wee child, it was just part of my heritage. I still eat chunks of raw hamburger when adding spices before cooking. I cook/order my steaks very rare. I order my rack of lamb and even pork chops rare. I love sushi and eat it regularly. Ditto clams and oysters. I eat Ceviche which is typically made from fresh raw fish cured in citrus juices.

Ancient man knew what could and could not be eaten raw or, in the pre-use-of-fire era, what could or could not be eaten at all. Most people get the urge to vomit when they see or smell someone else vomiting. It's an evilutionary thing. If someone else ate something that made them sick, it was better for the whole tribe to vomit up the bad food.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

It is a rather odd thread this one. It seems to be full of claims that mankind couldn't possibly do things that there are plenty of examples of mankind doing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It is a rather odd thread this one. It seems to be full of claims that mankind couldn't possibly do things that there are plenty of examples of mankind doing.

True. Tarzan, who was clearly a primitive man (albeit living in the modern age) built a really cool treehouse.

 

[klutedavid]

What has this got to do with the question? I have specifically mentioned that an important part of human suruval 'in the wild' is based on advantages we have such as social organisation. So, I would arrange with others from my tribe to keep watch and to wake the others if any large predators approach. We'd then deal with them as a group. Sorted. It was pointed out to you on page one of this thread that large predators are typically scared of Bushmen.

Hello all.

You might find this recent article interesting in light of the previous posts.

"Around one million years ago, early humans were skilful at using the landscape features of the Kenyan Rift
to ambush and kill their prey, according to new research published in Scientific Reports. The area was a popular
grazing site for larger animals (e.g., giant gelada baboons, elephants, hippopotami and the spotted hyenas) due to
its locally high nutrient levels and the presence of an ancient freshwater lake, together with the relative lack of
dangerous predators, such as lions." (Science Daily)

It is not hard to notice that lions needed to be omitted from the narration. Why do they need to ommit the large
predators? If early man was a hunter, then there exists a serious difficulty, fresh meat attracts predators. So the
scientific community is well aware that they must exclude the large predators, in order for early man to safely hunt.

Some folk on this thread do not seem to understand that large predators and man, cannot coexist. That is why
the scientists need to develop an environment, where early man can exist. That environment must be free of
large predators.

The odour of meat is an invitation to all predators. Whether the smell is from the carcass, or the smell is all over
the hunters. The large predators will be drawn to the smell of the meat. If you carry the meat back to camp, then
that is where the predators will go. Lions and early man as a hunter, is not a scenario that has any substance.

Please resist the idea of early man carrying a hindquarter of zebra over his shoulder. Early man and the odour of
meat is an open invitation to all predators. You must flesh out another possible variation in the evolutionary tale.

One needs to seriously consider a walled habitat that early man could call home. As far as I know from archeology,
mankind in the past always lived in walled enclosures.

 

[klutedavid]

I wonder how people living in central and southern Africa survived before 1500 AD what with all the predators sharing the land with them.

I guess they didn't. I guess they were all eaten up.

Hello Ecco.

Mankind will destroy all large predators, that is the only way that man could move into southern
Africa. You cannot set up camp with women and children in a predator rich location. Folk need
a village with walls to keep predators out at night. Archaeology illustrates this point, all old
cities in the deep past, had high and thick walls.

I repeat, a family cannot sit around a fire at night in a predator rich environment.

 

[crjmurray]

Hello all.

You might find this recent article interesting in light of the previous posts.

"Around one million years ago, early humans were skilful at using the landscape features of the Kenyan Rift
to ambush and kill their prey, according to new research published in Scientific Reports. The area was a popular
grazing site for larger animals (e.g., giant gelada baboons, elephants, hippopotami and the spotted hyenas) due to
its locally high nutrient levels and the presence of an ancient freshwater lake, together with the relative lack of
dangerous predators, such as lions." (Science Daily)

It is not hard to notice that lions needed to be omitted from the narration. Why do they need to ommit the large
predators? If early man was a hunter, then there exists a serious difficulty, fresh meat attracts predators. So the
scientific community is well aware that they must exclude the large predators, in order for early man to safely hunt.

Some folk on this thread do not seem to understand that large predators and man, cannot coexist. That is why
the scientists need to develop an environment, where early man can exist. That environment must be free of
large predators.

The odour of meat is an invitation to all predators. Whether the smell is from the carcass, or the smell is all over
the hunters. The large predators will be drawn to the smell of the meat. If you carry the meat back to camp, then
that is where the predators will go. Lions and early man as a hunter, is not a scenario that has any substance.

Please resist the idea of early man carrying a hindquarter of zebra over his shoulder. Early man and the odour of
meat is an open invitation to all predators. You must flesh out another possible variation in the evolutionary tale.

One needs to seriously consider a walled habitat that early man could call home. As far as I know from archeology,
mankind in the past always lived in walled enclosures.

Can you try shortening your posts? You don't need that much space to be so wrong. You could do it in a few words.

 

[Paulos23]

Hello Ecco.

Mankind will destroy all large predators, that is the only way that man could move into southern
Africa. You cannot set up camp with women and children in a predator rich location.

You seam to have this all or nothing approach to this. All predators are lazy, and man is one tough prey/predator in groups. As long as there was enough food in the area, there would be no reason for a predator to attack a group of men past the first time. It would get poked a few times and it would learn not to mess with men.

Folk need a village with walls to keep predators out at night. Archaeology illustrates this point, all old
cities in the deep past, had high and thick walls.

Village walls where more for keeping other men out rather than predators. There is no reason to have high thick walls around cities to keep out predators when a thick ring of pointed sticks would do the same.

I repeat, a family cannot sit around a fire at night in a predator rich environment.

Unless the predator is starving, that fire will keep them away. And that is all a family needs to survive for a night. And the family around the fire would have weapons as well, not fire arms, but sharpen rocks on sticks does a lot to convince a predator that it would be to damaged in taking on that family.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It is not hard to notice that lions needed to be omitted from the narration. Why do they need to ommit the large
predators? If early man was a hunter, then there exists a serious difficulty, fresh meat attracts predators. So the
scientific community is well aware that they must exclude the large predators, in order for early man to safely hunt.

One wonders how the other animals got by... and I don't recall anyone saying humans didn't regularly get eaten by large predators; natural selection - it's a cruel world.

 

[klutedavid]

One wonders how the other animals got by... and I don't recall anyone saying humans didn't regularly get eaten by large predators; natural selection - it's a cruel world.

Hello FrumiousBandersnatch.

The animals in general did not get by, endless extinction is the real story of the past.

 

[Shemjaza]

Hello FrumiousBandersnatch.

The animals in general did not get by, endless extinction is the real story of the past.

Yes, after eons of existence. That's like saying no one lived or did anything until the year 2000 because most of them are dead.

 

[ecco]

Hello Ecco.

Mankind will destroy all large predators, that is the only way that man could move into southern
Africa. You cannot set up camp with women and children in a predator rich location. ...
I repeat, a family cannot sit around a fire at night in a predator rich environment.

And yet the people of Africa did live and flourish in areas with many predators like lions and hyenas for thousands of years.
And yet the native Americans did live and flourish in areas with many predators like mountain lions and coyotes for thousands of years.

Folk need a village with walls to keep predators out at night. Archaeology illustrates this point, all old
cities in the deep past, had high and thick walls.

Not all old (pre 14th Century) cities in Africa and America had high and thick walls. Actually none did.

• Walls around small villages were not built to keep "keep predators out at night". They were built to keep human enemies out.
• Castle walls were not built to keep "keep predators out at night". They were built to keep human enemies out.
• Early wooden forts built in this country by "Europeans" had walls to keep out the "Indians".
• The Chinese built a massive wall to keep human invaders out.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Hello all.

You might find this recent article interesting in light of the previous posts.

"Around one million years ago, early humans were skilful at using the landscape features of the Kenyan Rift
to ambush and kill their prey, according to new research published in Scientific Reports. The area was a popular
grazing site for larger animals (e.g., giant gelada baboons, elephants, hippopotami and the spotted hyenas) due to
its locally high nutrient levels and the presence of an ancient freshwater lake, together with the relative lack of
dangerous predators, such as lions." (Science Daily)

It is not hard to notice that lions needed to be omitted from the narration. Why do they need to ommit the large
predators? If early man was a hunter, then there exists a serious difficulty, fresh meat attracts predators. So the
scientific community is well aware that they must exclude the large predators, in order for early man to safely hunt.

Some folk on this thread do not seem to understand that large predators and man, cannot coexist. That is why
the scientists need to develop an environment, where early man can exist. That environment must be free of
large predators.

Other people such as Ecco have already addressed this quite well.

However, I'll add my $0.02. First, it is very odd that you make this claim. It is a well known historical fact that humans did coexist with large predators. It's been pointed out that large predators are scared of bushmen. Also, your above quote doesn't say that there are no large predators just that there were a 'relative lack' of large predators. So there were large predators there, just fewer than in other locations. And hence even your own quote shows that humans could co-exist with large predators. Just that it's an advantage if there are fewer large predators.

The San people (Bushmen) historically lived in Botswana, Namibia, Angola, Zambia, Zimbabwe and South Africa. This is a huge range, and shows that people following primitive lifestyles can survive in areas where there are big cats, including lions.

I find it strange that people are persisting in claiming that primitive man couldn't have lived in areas with large predators even though it is very well known that people did. It's like claiming that nobody could live in Australia before we had the internal combustion engine.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If primitive man's fossils are found in the same original strata (not re-deposited strata) with fossils of large predators then of course they co-existed, and probably routinely killed each other.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The animals in general did not get by, endless extinction is the real story of the past.

Many hominin species went extinct too. Yet there are plenty of savannah species still left for the big predators to hunt, but homo sapiens is the only hominin to make it to the present. Most creatures become extinct, but some don't. Your point is?

 

[USincognito]

You would not be employing any assumptions or inferring, I hope.

Assumptions!

 

[Shemjaza]

If primitive man's fossils are found in the same original strata (not re-deposited strata) with fossils of large predators then of course they co-existed, and probably routinely killed each other.

Still do.