The theory of evilution seems to be contradictory.

[As I was saying]

Do you really understand what you just wrote?


As I Was Saying is unconvinced by all the evidence supporting evolution. Therefore, As I Was Saying's life is controlled by cynicism.


Here...
http://www.theclergyletterproject.org/Christian_Clergy/ChrClergyLtr.htm
... is a list of over 13,000 members of the clergy who support evolution.

Are these clergy controlled by cynicism?

Do you really understand what YOU just wrote?

Haven't found any evidence supporting evolution. The evidence is clear in the Bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and he created everything after its own kind. To believe in evolution is to call God a liar and the Bible is clear that God is not a man that he can lie.

I know you don't understand this fact because satan has blinded your eyes but there is nothing I can do about this whilst you are so cynical.

And for your information, none of these 13,000 died for me and paid the price for my sin so they are irrelevant to my understanding of God and his son Jesus. I happen to know that I am not going to be asked on judgment day "why didn't you believe in evolution when 13,000 clergymen did?

 

[As I was saying]

I don't know. I also made no statement of your thought processes,

No translation could possibly be the inspired word of god, as all of them are demonstrably wrong in numerous aspects (most notably, the existence of a world-wide flood within human history).

I read the bible. I found the moral teachings therein abhorrent ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"?) and the factual claims wrong. I'm sure you know more about the bible than I do, but I know more than enough to conclude that the book was not written by an all-knowing, all-powerful, loving deity.

But even if it was rejected at first, that doesn't matter. You're trying to attack one of the most well-substantiated theories in science by going back in time to before we had the evidence to support it. That's totally unhelpful, though, because we have way more evidence now. It's like saying "I could beat up Mike Tyson when he was an infant".

Ho hum. What I believe about the second coming of Christ is NOT a thought process. it is a belief honed through many years of study.

Yes, I guess loving your neighbour as yourself is morally abhorrent as Jesus taught us to do. Especially as atheism teaches that it is a case of every man for himself (survival of the fittest).

What factual claims are wrong?

Obviously your knowledge of the bible is very deficient if you believe that it was not written by an all knowing, all powerful and loving deity. Until you know God you cannot even begin to understand what the bible says even though you think that an atheist mind can comprehend its teaching which it can't.

Evolution, if you care to have an open mind about it is not scientific, it is philosophical as the main purpose of it is to get God out of the picture and replace him with man. As Dr Wolfgang Smith, former professor of mathematics at MIT and UCLA said, "I am convinced that Darwinism, in whatever form, is not in fact a scientific theory, but a pseudo-metaphysical hypothesis decked out in scientific garb."

And Dr. Theodore Roszak, professor emeritus of History at the California State University said "The irony is devastating. The main purpose of Darwinism was to drive every last trace of an incredible God from biology. But the theory replaces God with an even more incredible deity: omnipotent chance."

 

[As I was saying]

Charles Darwin was a naturalist. Synonyms for naturalist:natural historian, life scientist, wildlife expert;biologist, botanist,zoologist, ornithologist, entomologist, ecologist.So you're wrong.

You mean the theory with an overwhelming amount of evidence in it's favor. So much evidence that if I put it all in front of you, it would take you centuries to read it all.

You don't know what science is and how it works.

For a theory to be accepted it must be observable, repeatable tests and make accurate predictions. Evolution does all of these things.

1. Darwin did not have any degrees in science or biology which you don't dispute so I must be right as your favorite comment is "you're wrong." I think that is very funny you want all our experts to have umpteen degrees but your main one who proffered the basi of what you believe doesn't have any.

Anyway, God has more understanding and knowledge than all the atheists and evolutionists that have ever lived. Why should I believe them when I have the ability to know anything I want to know through the Holy Spirit who leads us into ALL truth. When he tells me that I am to believe the fairy story of evolution that is the day I will.

2. The overwhelming evidence is the truth is what God tells me is the truth through his Holy Spirit. Outside of that there is no truth because Jesus said he was the way, the TRUTH and the life. That means everything I need to know is in and through him.

3. I don't have to go searching every book under the sun and listen to every Joe Blow who has a theory about God and creation. That is a recipe for disaster. I prefer God's peace which passes all understanding, rather than the sort of peace that atheists offer which demands copious scientific knowledge.

4. There are millions of people who cannot read or write so they are behind the eightball when it comes to evolution as they will never know the truth of it [sic]. But they will know God's forgiveness and redemption because the Holy Spirit will show them the truth.

Just realised that I have never heard of anyone who has said that the Holy Spirit showed them evolution is the truth and from God.

 

[crjmurray]

Do you really understand what YOU just wrote?

Haven't found any evidence supporting evolution.

Oh then you haven't looked. Or your education has been lacking. That is a very silly statement for someone of your age to make.

 

[As I was saying]

Oh then you haven't looked. Or your education has been lacking. That is a very silly statement for someone of your age to make.

Is it? Sorry to say I am just facing reality. All I see is book after book debunking the theory of evolution and which say that this theory or that theory does not stack up because....All written by professors and Ph.D's who have taught at universities like Yale, Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, Oxford and Cambridge etc.

 

[crjmurray]

Is it? Sorry to say I am just facing reality.

Just now? I understand your confusion.

 

[As I was saying]

Just now? I understand your confusion.

What confusion? The only confusion I have is how anyone who is intelligent could believe a fairy story like evolution.

 

[crjmurray]

What confusion? The only confusion I have is how anyone who is intelligent could believe a fairy story like evolution.

No, you also seem confused about books and papers you claim to have read. And subjects you claim expertise in.

 

[The Cadet]

Yes, I guess loving your neighbour as yourself is morally abhorrent as Jesus taught us to do.

Jesus also taught that those who did not believe in him were going to be tortured for all eternity. There are good moral lessons in the bible, just like there are good moral lessons in the Qur'an and your average Ayn Rand novel. However, to those who aren't totally on board with the religion, those good moral lessons pale in comparison to things like "Apostasy should be punished with death" or "homosexuality should be punished with death" or "It's a good idea to have a 200-page-long monologue in the middle of a book". The bible contains some good moral teachings, and quite a few very bad moral teachings. However, none of the good moral teachings are specific to the bible - most of them are cribbed straight from older moral systems, such as the code of hammurabi, and all of them are easily developed through secular means. Meanwhile, given that the bible doesn't change, we have no way to go back and update it. We can't just drop Exodus 21 from the book, nor can we pretend that the doctrine of hell is completely baseless.

Especially as atheism teaches that it is a case of every man for himself (survival of the fittest).

Actually, atheism has no moral teachings whatsoever. It is a position on one issue: whether or not a god exists. Atheists get their morals from various other ethical systems. Please stop perpetuating this nonsensical stereotype about what atheism is or means.

What factual claims are wrong?

There was not a worldwide flood within human history. Not a single thing about the Noah myth even begins to make sense. Oh, and the earth does not predate the sun. Almost the entire genesis account is wrong from front to back.

Obviously your knowledge of the bible is very deficient if you believe that it was not written by an all knowing, all powerful and loving deity. Until you know God you cannot even begin to understand what the bible says

...Wait, what? So God wrote this book which is supposed to be his testimony to the world, but unless I already believe in him, I can't understand it? What a bizarre plan. Although I'm curious - what is it about Exodus 21 that I don't understand? Do believers see a different text there compared to non-believers? Am I not understanding the morality behind taking other people as property?

Evolution, if you care to have an open mind about it is not scientific, it is philosophical as the main purpose of it is to get God out of the picture and replace him with man.

Actually, evolution has nothing to do with god or gods. Darwin himself wrote quite a bit about god in the origin of species, most of it quite positive. A great many Christians accept the theory of evolution and believe in Yahweh. If you believe that evolution has anything to do with God, you are simply wrong, and you do not understand the theory or the evidence supporting it.

As Dr Wolfgang Smith, former professor of mathematics

Why should I care what a mathematics professor has to say on biology? Would you turn to a physicist to treat your cancer? Smith is not an expert on biology or biological processes and his opinions on the subject are worth as much to me as your opinions on the subject. Less, actually; I don't know that you're a geocentrist; he is. I think we can all agree that when a scientist says that the sun goes around the earth, it's time to stop treating them as a scientist and start treating them like a crazy person. Dr. Wolfgang Smith is not a good scientist, and while he may have some achievements within his field (I didn't look, I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt), the fact that he is a geocentrist shows very clearly why we shouldn't assume that expertise in one field transfers over to expertise in another.

And Dr. Theodore Roszak, professor emeritus of History

...But again, Roszak, while an accomplished historian, is not a biologist, or indeed any sort of natural scientist. I'm sure he's a very bright man, but let me remind you that Ian Juby is a member of MENSA - being a bright man does not instantly translate into any tangible expertise in any scientific discipline. Not only that, but I cannot access your quote, and thus have no context with which to evaluate it. And while meaning no offense to you, but I long since stopped trusting creationists to accurately portray the context and meaning of the quotations of actual scientists. In any case, the quote is simply wrong, and portrays the exact same nonsensical misunderstanding of the theory that you and Wolfgang Smith have bought into.

 

[florida2]

Do you really understand what YOU just wrote?

Haven't found any evidence supporting evolution.

You could start here: https://scholar.google.co.uk/schola...ved=0CCsQgQMwAGoVChMImKeSqZCXyAIVyrQaCh27BQgL

The evidence is clear in the Bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and he created everything after its own kind. To believe in evolution is to call God a liar and the Bible is clear that God is not a man that he can lie.

The Bible isn't evidence in a scientific context. Genesis is a story, no empirical evidence.

If we took your 'logic' then the Guru Gobind Singh is evidence for the Sikh creation story, or you could look at Hindu or Bhuddist or any other religious texts and claim they are 'evidence' for a particular creation story.

I know you don't understand this fact because satan has blinded your eyes but there is nothing I can do about this whilst you are so cynical.

It's also sad that you appear to be so cynical about science despite enjoying all its benefits.

And for your information, none of these 13,000 died for me and paid the price for my sin so they are irrelevant to my understanding of God and his son Jesus. I happen to know that I am not going to be asked on judgment day "why didn't you believe in evolution when 13,000 clergymen did?

Nobody claimed they did.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

1. Darwin did not have any degrees in science or biology which you don't dispute so I must be right as your favorite comment is "you're wrong." I think that is very funny you want all our experts to have umpteen degrees but your main one who proffered the basi of what you believe doesn't have any.

What should I take more serious: People who spent their life work in the field and the mountains of evidence that support the theory of evolution or your circular reasoning "it's not true because I say its not true"?
What are your "experts" expert in? Lying about the most substantiated theory in all of science?

Anyway, God has more understanding and knowledge than all the atheists and evolutionists that have ever lived. Why should I believe them when I have the ability to know anything I want to know through the Holy Spirit who leads us into ALL truth. When he tells me that I am to believe the fairy story of evolution that is the day I will.

2. The overwhelming evidence is the truth is what God tells me is the truth through his Holy Spirit. Outside of that there is no truth because Jesus said he was the way, the TRUTH and the life. That means everything I need to know is in and through him.

3. I don't have to go searching every book under the sun and listen to every Joe Blow who has a theory about God and creation. That is a recipe for disaster. I prefer God's peace which passes all understanding, rather than the sort of peace that atheists offer which demands copious scientific knowledge.

4. There are millions of people who cannot read or write so they are behind the eightball when it comes to evolution as they will never know the truth of it [sic]. But they will know God's forgiveness and redemption because the Holy Spirit will show them the truth.

All these points are circular reasoning. "It's true because the bible says it's true, it's true because the bible says it's true, it's true because the bible's says it's true". The problem here is that you have no evidence.

Just realised that I have never heard of anyone who has said that the Holy Spirit showed them evolution is the truth and from God.

Maybe because the Holy spirit might not exist? The cool thing about evidence is that you can see it.

Is it? Sorry to say I am just facing reality. All I see is book after book debunking the theory of evolution and which say that this theory or that theory does not stack up because....All written by professors and Ph.D's who have taught at universities like Yale, Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, Oxford and Cambridge etc.

What books? Can you name 5 written by well respected biologists? They'd win a Nobel prize if they falsified evolution. I don't think you're being honest here.

What confusion? The only confusion I have is how anyone who is intelligent could believe a fairy story like evolution.

Well there is an overwhelming amount of evidence .Comparative anatomy, embryology, fossil record, DNA, observations in the lab and my personal favorite, Human Chromosome #2. You can pretend all you want that it's not there, it's not going away.

Next time you get an immunization, remember that it was made possible by the understanding of the theory of evolution

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

As Dr Wolfgang Smith, former professor of mathematics at MIT and UCLA said, "I am convinced that Darwinism, in whatever form, is not in fact a scientific theory, but a pseudo-metaphysical hypothesis decked out in scientific garb.

Bwahahahahaha

He is also a geocentrist!

 

[As I was saying]

Bwahahahahaha

He is also a geocentrist!

Ha ha. Don't make me laugh!!

 

[As I was saying]

1.What should I take more serious: People who spent their life work in the field and the mountains of evidence that support the theory of evolution or your circular reasoning "it's not true because I say its not true"? What are your "experts" expert in? Lying about the most substantiated theory in all of science?

2. All these points are circular reasoning. "It's true because the bible says it's true, it's true because the bible says it's true, it's true because the bible's says it's true". The problem here is that you have no evidence.

3. Maybe because the Holy spirit might not exist? The cool thing about evidence is that you can see it.

4. What books? Can you name 5 written by well respected biologists? They'd win a Nobel prize if they falsified evolution. I don't think you're being honest here.

5. Well there is an overwhelming amount of evidence .Comparative anatomy, embryology, fossil record, DNA, observations in the lab and my personal favorite, Human Chromosome #2. You can pretend all you want that it's not there, it's not going away.

6. Next time you get an immunization, remember that it was made possible by the understanding of the theory of evolution

1.Joke.

2. Joke.

3. Joke.

4. Joke.

5. Joke.

6. Joke.

 

[As I was saying]

You could start here: https://scholar.google.co.uk/schola...ved=0CCsQgQMwAGoVChMImKeSqZCXyAIVyrQaCh27BQgL The Bible isn't evidence in a scientific context. Genesis is a story, no empirical evidence.

If we took your 'logic' then the Guru Gobind Singh is evidence for the Sikh creation story, or you could look at Hindu or Bhuddist or any other religious texts and claim they are 'evidence' for a particular creation story.

It's also sad that you appear to be so cynical about science despite enjoying all its benefits.

Nobody claimed they did.

Why waste my time when I have done copious amounts of reading already? What annoys you is that I don't agree with you and you don't like it. So much for a comment from another atheist who said you are free to believe what you want to believe. Obviously you don't agree with him.

No, we come to that conclusion when we take your logic [sic].

I am only cynical about the fairy story of evolution which is being touted as fact by those who want to get God out of the picture.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

I am only cynical about the fairy story of evolution which is being touted as fact by those who want to get God out of the picture.

It doesn't make any claims for or against the existence of a God. The overwhelming amounts of evidence gathered by several different lines of study have made the theory of evolution one of the strongest theories science has. What objections do you have to the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports the theory of evolution?

 

[As I was saying]

Jesus also taught that those who did not believe in him were going to be tortured for all eternity. There are good moral lessons in the bible, just like there are good moral lessons in the Qur'an and your average Ayn Rand novel. However, to those who aren't totally on board with the religion, those good moral lessons pale in comparison to things like "Apostasy should be punished with death" or "homosexuality should be punished with death" or "It's a good idea to have a 200-page-long monologue in the middle of a book". The bible contains some good moral teachings, and quite a few very bad moral teachings. However, none of the good moral teachings are specific to the bible - most of them are cribbed straight from older moral systems, such as the code of hammurabi, and all of them are easily developed through secular means. Meanwhile, given that the bible doesn't change, we have no way to go back and update it. We can't just drop Exodus 21 from the book, nor can we pretend that the doctrine of hell is completely baseless.

Actually, atheism has no moral teachings whatsoever. It is a position on one issue: whether or not a god exists. Atheists get their morals from various other ethical systems. Please stop perpetuating this nonsensical stereotype about what atheism is or means.

There was not a worldwide flood within human history. Not a single thing about the Noah myth even begins to make sense. Oh, and the earth does not predate the sun. Almost the entire genesis account is wrong from front to back.

...Wait, what? So God wrote this book which is supposed to be his testimony to the world, but unless I already believe in him, I can't understand it? What a bizarre plan. Although I'm curious - what is it about Exodus 21 that I don't understand? Do believers see a different text there compared to non-believers? Am I not understanding the morality behind taking other people as property?

Actually, evolution has nothing to do with god or gods. Darwin himself wrote quite a bit about god in the origin of species, most of it quite positive. A great many Christians accept the theory of evolution and believe in Yahweh. If you believe that evolution has anything to do with God, you are simply wrong, and you do not understand the theory or the evidence supporting it.

Why should I care what a mathematics professor has to say on biology? Would you turn to a physicist to treat your cancer? Smith is not an expert on biology or biological processes and his opinions on the subject are worth as much to me as your opinions on the subject. Less, actually; I don't know that you're a geocentrist; he is. I think we can all agree that when a scientist says that the sun goes around the earth, it's time to stop treating them as a scientist and start treating them like a crazy person. Dr. Wolfgang Smith is not a good scientist, and while he may have some achievements within his field (I didn't look, I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt), the fact that he is a geocentrist shows very clearly why we shouldn't assume that expertise in one field transfers over to expertise in another.

...But again, Roszak, while an accomplished historian, is not a biologist, or indeed any sort of natural scientist. I'm sure he's a very bright man, but let me remind you that Ian Juby is a member of MENSA - being a bright man does not instantly translate into any tangible expertise in any scientific discipline. Not only that, but I cannot access your quote, and thus have no context with which to evaluate it. And while meaning no offense to you, but I long since stopped trusting creationists to accurately portray the context and meaning of the quotations of actual scientists. In any case, the quote is simply wrong, and portrays the exact same nonsensical misunderstanding of the theory that you and Wolfgang Smith have bought into.

You sound like the emperor with no clothes. You atheists are so unoriginal. I have seen most of your first paragraph quoted by atheists umpteen times and all it does is show your paucity of knowledge about God, the Bible and His son Jesus. All you are doing is trotting out quotes from the atheists little red book which you use to save you having to think.

No atheism doesn't have moral teachings. It has immoral teachings which have been detrimental to the world as in the millions of babies that have been murdered in the womb. Margaret Sanger founder of Planned Parenthood said she got her motivation to have babies killed from the atheists survival of the fittest. By the way you atheists perpetuate a nonsensical stereotype about what Christianity, God and the bible is or means.

And your evidence that there was no worldwide flood? And as for Genesis account being wrong from front to back to paraphrase one well know atheist "what should I care what an atheist has to say about Genesis."

Cynicism is a barrier to truth, any truth. I have read enough of the writings of atheists to know they are loaded up with cynicism about what they don't understand. It is said we are afraid of what we don't understand. The atheist illustrates this very well because all they ever seem to do is come onto christian forums and try and convince us we are all wrong and they are all right. I don't know why as at the end of the day they convince no one except themselves.

You would make a good politician who when confronted with the truth then invents a story to tell the people that will absolve you from having to face it. That is why you and other atheists deny that atheism has anything to do with gods when in fact atheism is steeped in the most dangerous god of all...ME, MYSELF AND I. When anyone becomes the centre of the universe, they reap all sorts of havoc and they could not give a dam outside of the little world they conjure up.

I don't think that evolution has anything to do with God. Evolution is a beat up invented by atheists to get God out of the picture and have him replaced with themselves. That one fact is so obvious that I am surprised anyone denies it.

Dr Wolfgang Smith is NOT a geocentric. That is another beat up by an atheist who cannot deny the validity of what he says so they have to lie about him. And as Darwin was not a scientist, that says it all according to your take on things.

And why should I care what an atheist who is far from qualified in terms of the people I quoted, has to say about anything? How many degrees and professorships do you have? Are you a biologist, a natural scientist, a mathematical professor, an expert on biology. Do you have a professorship of any kind? And while meaning no offense to you, but I long since stopped trusting atheists to accurately portray the context and meaning of the quotations of actual scientists who haven't fallen in love with evolution.

 

[As I was saying]

It doesn't make any claims for or against the existence of a God. The overwhelming amounts of evidence gathered by several different lines of study have made the theory of evolution one of the strongest theories science has. What objections do you have to the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports the theory of evolution?

Then I have to say that all the comments I have read from numerous atheists means that they are all liars. the most common claim is that God does not exist and that we christians are following a fairy in the sky. Now I am sure you are going to come back with some nonsensical explanation that they didn't mean what they said or we misunderstood their comment or we don't understand or.....but when eggs are eggs, the import of their claims are obvious.

What objections do you have that the Bible says that God created the heavens and the earth and he created everything after its own kind apart from your obvious bias and prejudiced against God which is based on mere speculation?

And...............evolution as you have admitted is a theory, not a fact. I prefer the facts surrounding Jesus Christ which is out there for all to see. That is if you care to see it which atheists don't as their cynicism does not allow them to.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Then I have to say that all the comments I have read from numerous atheists means that they are all liars. the most common claim is that God does not exist and that we christians are following a fairy in the sky. Now I am sure you are going to come back with some nonsensical explanation that they didn't mean what they said or we misunderstood their comment or we don't understand or.....but when eggs are eggs, the import of their claims are obvious.

I don't speak for other atheists. I just speak for myself. Evolution makes no claims for or against the existence of a God. Science's goal is to explain the natural world. It makes no claims of the super natural.

What objections do you have that the Bible says that God created the heavens and the earth and he created everything after its own kind apart from your obvious bias and prejudiced against God which is based on mere speculation?

That it's a claim with no supporting evidence. I don't outright reject the possibility of a God. I just don't find it convincing. So I choose not to believe in it.

What objections do you have to the overwhelming amounts of evidence in favor of evolution?

And...............evolution as you have admitted is a theory, not a fact. I prefer the facts surrounding Jesus Christ which is out there for all to see. That is if you care to see it which atheists don't as their cynicism does not allow them to.

The definition of a theory in the scientific context is: "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation".

It's higher than a fact because it confirms other facts. Gravity is just a theory. Do you think gravity is "fantasy" too?

I was a Christian for quite some time growing up. I think you'll find that most atheists are former Christians or former members of other faiths. Again I don't speak for everyone but when I really dove into my faith, I came to the conclusion that there wasn't any convincing evidence and I had no good reason to believe any of it to be true.

 

[As I was saying]

No, you also seem confused about books and papers you claim to have read. And subjects you claim expertise in.

Sorry to say, you are the one who is confused. First of all, I haven't claimed I am an expert in anything. All I have done is to pass on what I have learnt from reading, writing, listening, and observing.

As for being confused about books and papers I have claimed to read let me paraphrase. You are having problems that I am not the average Joe who knows very little about atheism and evolution and the fact I have taken the trouble to get informed about it and you do not like the fact that you can't browbeat me into submission with words, accusations and cynicism and am not frightened to confront you about what you believe is silly nonsense.

On forums like these, all we get are theories and hypothesis from atheists who have no qualifications of any kind and who have the audacity to sneer at professors, Ph.Ds, and various educated personnel because they don't believe in evolution and who in fact have more knowledge and understanding in their little finger than all the supposed knowledge (second hand) that is claimed by atheists here.

So let me say it again. Why would I, a person who has been studying evolution for at least 10 years, and have been studying the bible for 60 years and have a degree in theology, and have three university degrees in various disciplines, give the time of day to someone who is not interested in anything apart from pushing a failed ideology that is nothing more than a theory when I personally know the way, the truth and the life?

You claim to be logical then sort that one out because what you want to happen, me to believe what you say is the most illogical thing that can happen.