The Theistic in Theistic Evolution

[gluadys]

Just like most Christians we distinguish between general revelation and special revelation.

General revelation is what we can conclude about the creation from evidence and reason.

Special revelation is what requires a direct revelation from God to his prophets.

As long ago as medieval times, Thomas Aquinas recognized that general revelation, and in particular, human reasoning, could not establish beyond doubt the origin of nature, but could rationally conclude that the universe is eternal. Belief that nature was the work of a Creator and hence has a beginning requires special revelation--which we have recorded in scripture.

Similarly TEs recognize the limitations of science in providing a complete picture of truth and the need for special revelation, believed by faith, to supplement the findings of science.

 

[CPman2004]

In The Beginning . . .

The theological part of theistic evolution is based on the same theological beliefs of anyone who accepts the big bang, mainstream geology, mainstream science, etc. If one is Christian, it is based on the bible.

After all, the theists who accept evolution who participate here are Christian. Their theology is supported just as any other Christians theology is supported. Just as the Christian theists who accept geology or cosmology attribute the creation of what they study to the Christian God.

Ok you said that your theology is supported, but by what?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Ok you said that your theology is supported, but by what?

TE's are not a uniform group, unlike YECists. There is a definite conservative---liberal spectrum in TE. On the very rightmost edge you have very reluctant TE's like BB. Warfield. Examples of outspoken yet very conservative TE's online would include Terry Gray, Howard Vantill and many members of ASA. Terry Gray is perhaps one of the most interesting because AFAIK is the only person to have undergone a Church trial on the issues this generation. Dr. Gray is, i believe, PCA. Dr. Vantill is CRC.

With people like this, their theology is indistinguishable from almost any conservative Reformed theologian who happens to be YECist, differing only on immediate issues separating YECist and OEC's in general. All the rest of the theology is identical. Look at the reports on Terry Gray's trial, the only issue was if Adam was created from a pre-existent evolved creature, nothing else was under scrutiny. Dr Gray being fully orthodox and unchallenged in his theology but this single point.

....

 

[notto]

Ok you said that your theology is supported, but by what?

The Bible and Gods own creation.

 

[CPman2004]

The Bible and Gods own creation.

Can you expand on that?

 

[Maccie]

The Bible and Gods own creation.

Can you expand on that?

I hope he can't expand on the Bible!! Otherwise he will be adding to it, and of course, that is forbidden!!!

No, seriously, notto has already explained he uses the same Bible, and anyone can look at creation, its there under our eyes.

[QUOTE-notto]Their theology is supported just as any other Christian's theology is supported. Just as the Christian theists who accept geology or cosmology attribute the creation of what they study to the Christian God.[/QUOTE]

What could be clearer than that? How could you expand on that???

 

[CPman2004]

I hope he can't expand on the Bible!! Otherwise he will be adding to it, and of course, that is forbidden!!!

No, seriously, notto has already explained he uses the same Bible, and anyone can look at creation, its there under our eyes.



What could be clearer than that? How could you expand on that???

Oh, I am not asking him to expand on the Bible. I am just wondering if there are any Bible verses that would back up TE. I know that he uses the same bible as the rest of Christians and believes in the same Savior as I do. I just would like to know from what parts of the Bible would support TE.

 

[Vance]

Oh, I am not asking him to expand on the Bible. I am just wondering if there are any Bible verses that would back up TE. I know that he uses the same bible as the rest of Christians and believes in the same Savior as I do. I just would like to know from what parts of the Bible would support TE.

It is right after the verses explaining photosynthesis and quantam mechanics. The Bible would never have a scientific explanation of evolution or any other natural process by which God created and by which He allows this planet to operate. That is not its purpose. The point is that there is nothing in Scripture which contradicts evolution and an old earth, when Scripture is properly read. So, in the absence of any direct statements about the HOW and WHEN of creation, we should let the evidence from God's OTHER revelation, His Creation itself, to tell us about those things. We do this with every other aspect of His Creation, so why would we not do so with its origins?

Also, the point is that the theology of a theistic evolutionist is EXACTLY THE SAME as any other Christian on every important point. We get that theology from the same Scripture as you. Those Christians who accept evolution (which is very likely the majority of Christians worldwide) come from all doctrinal backgrounds and from the full spectrum from liberal to conservative. Personally, I am pretty conservative, as is rwilliams, Herev, Paladin, Shenren, and many others. Gluadys and Karl are more liberal. I don't think it is all that unusual that most of the TE's here are actually conservatives.

 

[PaladinValer]

Actually, I'd call myself a moderate

 

[]RiSeN[]

Oh, I am not asking him to expand on the Bible. I am just wondering if there are any Bible verses that would back up TE. I know that he uses the same bible as the rest of Christians and believes in the same Savior as I do. I just would like to know from what parts of the Bible would support TE.

They cant. Because its not. But we cant say anything because they've built themselves a fortress of theories, and now some of them even have theology as a moat.

Id love to hear what God would say about people who add to His bible and take away credit for His creation, oh wait! I can, its in the bible! silly me...

 

[Maccie]

Id love to hear what God would say about people who add to His bible and take away credit for His creation, oh wait! I can, its in the bible! silly me...

TE's are neither adding to the Bible nor taking away the credit to God for his creation.

What exactly, have they added? And what TE would ever NOT give the glory to God for his wonderful creation.

Are you sure you are not confusing Theistic Creationists with Atheists??? Theistic means 'of God', you know.

 

[]RiSeN[]

TE's are neither adding to the Bible nor taking away the credit to God for his creation.

What exactly, have they added? And what TE would ever NOT give the glory to God for his wonderful creation.

Are you sure you are not confusing Theistic Creationists with Atheists??? Theistic means 'of God', you know.

No im confusing my morals and concience with someone elses, accept my appologies. We'll all just have to hold on to our cards till the 'flop'.

 

[gluadys]

Id love to hear what God would say about people who add to His bible and take away credit for His creation, oh wait! I can, its in the bible! silly me...

TEs give glory to God for ALL creation. In my experience it is only creationists who say that if something comes about by natural process it was not created by God. So who is really taking away credit for His creation?

 

[CPman2004]

It is right after the verses explaining photosynthesis and quantam mechanics. The Bible would never have a scientific explanation of evolution or any other natural process by which God created and by which He allows this planet to operate. That is not its purpose. The point is that there is nothing in Scripture which contradicts evolution and an old earth, when Scripture is properly read.

How then is the proper way to read Scripture?

So, in the absence of any direct statements about the HOW and WHEN of creation, we should let the evidence from God's OTHER revelation, His Creation itself, to tell us about those things. We do this with every other aspect of His Creation, so why would we not do so with its origins?

Ok, I can see that part. Since we do have some leyway when identifiying sins and what not. Though, I would challenge the accuracty of evolution, but that is not the purpose of this thread.

Also, the point is that the theology of a theistic evolutionist is EXACTLY THE SAME as any other Christian on every important point. We get that theology from the same Scripture as you. Those Christians who accept evolution (which is very likely the majority of Christians worldwide) come from all doctrinal backgrounds and from the full spectrum from liberal to conservative. Personally, I am pretty conservative, as is rwilliams, Herev, Paladin, Shenren, and many others. Gluadys and Karl are more liberal. I don't think it is all that unusual that most of the TE's here are actually conservatives.

Have I accused TEs of not being christians and librals? I don't believe I have, and if it does seem that I have done this, please forgive me. I would also want to re post that my intentions of this thread was to ask questions and NOT to debate.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

They cant. Because its not. But we cant say anything because they've built themselves a fortress of theories, and now some of them even have theology as a moat.

Id love to hear what God would say about people who add to His bible and take away credit for His creation, oh wait! I can, its in the bible! silly me...

TE's give God credit for His creation. That's were the T comes from.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

The first rule of Bible interpretation that I would propose would be to always start with how the original audience would have understood the passage. This won't give a complete understanding, but it will help us to avoid a lot of pitfalls that can come from when our modern assumptions and ignorance get worked into the interpretation.

 

[]RiSeN[]

The first rule of Bible interpretation that I would propose would be to always start with how the original audience would have understood the passage. This won't give a complete understanding, but it will help us to avoid a lot of pitfalls that can come from when our modern assumptions and ignorance get worked into the interpretation.

Bioethics?

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Bioethics?

Bioethics, like all ethics, is an application of principles to a situation. Biblical interpretation gives us the principles. Once we have these, we can apply them to determine ethics.

 

[]RiSeN[]

TE's give God credit for His creation. That's were the T comes from.

Yes but is that 'T' from God?

 

[notto]

Yes bit is that 'T' from God?

Well, if one is a Christian, what do you think?