The Ten Commandments

[alien444]

I appreciate everyone who engages with me on this site. I have wanted to ask this to a group of intelligent Christians for some time. Many of you have probably answered this question before, but if you could humor me by responding, I would appreciate your opinions. These are serious questions that I have, I am not trying to be facetious or sarcastic.

Why are the ten commandments important to Christians?
Are they really the best list of immoral actions/choices.

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

This is directed solely at the tribes of Israel, Why?

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Why are graven images such a bad thing? Hasn't western civilization completely ignored this commandment (see the entire history of western art)
Please explain to me why God is jealous.
We recognize jealousy as a bad characteristic, and many people have successfully overcome it, why can't God.
Isn't it immoral to punish children for the sins of their father?


3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Why is this important to God ?This this mean to not say Yahweh?

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your , male servant or your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.(?) For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Mostly ignored in western civilization, especially Europe.



5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

What is your parents are sadistic? What about sexually or physically abused children?

6 “You shall not murder.

Except in war, capital punishment, or in case of breaking these commandments.


7 “You shall not commit adultery.

Fair enough.

8 “You shall not steal.

Fair enough.

9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You should not lie? Fair enough, but is almost impossible to do as social beings?

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant (?), nor his female servant (?), nor his ox (?), nor his donkey(?) nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I agree with Buddha that desire is a source of suffering. I am content with what I have and material or sensual pleasures are fleeting and will never bring you true happiness. But is this commandment really supposed to be the literal word of God? Besides, coveting your neighbor's goods is the driving force of capitalism.

Couldn't anyone on this site come up with a list of ten better commandments for a society to follow. (empathy and compassion towards ALL creatures, rape, incest, slavery, child abuse, equality of the sexes, tolerance for differences, etc.)

 

[ForJesusChrist]

I will attempt to answer your questions (in order)

The commandments are important because they are basically the laws that God laid down for us to follow to be loyal to Him.

They are the correct things to do and the right choices in God's eyes, so yes.

No, God is simply using the fact that he brought them out of Egypt to remind them what He has done for them so that God's people do not lose faith.

By graven images, God moreover means that we should not brag or emphasize ourself, not to draw attention or cause a scene, however you want to word it. Not necessarily meaning literally an image, more of try not to idolize or put yourself on a high pedestal.

My thoughts are not God's, so I cant tell you this. Perhaps you should ask God. But if I had to answer, I would say that God made us, so why would he want his creations to not follow and be with him.

Refer to the answer above.

Perhaps it is, but God said to, so it will be done for God. God knows what to do, even if it seems wrong or strange in our eyes.

God does not want us to swear or to use His Holy name as a curse word. Why would you curse something you love? Think of it that way. And no, you can say God, Jesus, Yahweh, but not in vain (as a curse word).

It is, but thats our fault, not God's, the majority of the world does not follow His Holy commandments.

Jesus tells us to love all and to forgive. So it does not matter who they are, you should honor and respect your mom and dad.

The commandment never had any exceptions, again, its just us not following them.

OK

OK

Its not impossible, it just that the world we live in makes it seem that way. People are always trying to impress others or to be someone who they are not. Its really not that hard to not lie, try it out.

It means do not be jealous and realized that we are all blessed in our own unique way.

God knows whats best for us, trust in God with all your heart.


Check out this site, it is more in depth explanation of each of the 10 commandments.

The Ten Commandments - God's Ten Bible Commandments


God Bless

Praise Jesus

 

[ForJesusChrist]

I will attempt to answer your questions (in order)

The commandments are important because they are basically the laws that God laid down for us to follow to be loyal to Him.

They are the correct things to do and the right choices in God's eyes, so yes.

No, God is simply using the fact that he brought them out of Egypt to remind them what He has done for them so that God's people do not lose faith.

By graven images, God moreover means that we should not brag or emphasize ourself, not to draw attention or cause a scene, however you want to word it. Not necessarily meaning literally an image, more of try not to idolize or put yourself on a high pedestal.

My thoughts are not God's, so I cant tell you this. Perhaps you should ask God. But if I had to answer, I would say that God made us, so why would he want his creations to not follow and be with him.

Refer to the answer above.

Perhaps it is, but God said to, so it will be done for God. God knows what to do, even if it seems wrong or strange in our eyes.

God does not want us to swear or to use His Holy name as a curse word. Why would you curse something you love? Think of it that way. And no, you can say God, Jesus, Yahweh, but not in vain (as a curse word).

It is, but thats our fault, not God's, the majority of the world does not follow His Holy commandments.

Jesus tells us to love all and to forgive. So it does not matter who they are, you should honor and respect your mom and dad.

The commandment never had any exceptions, again, its just us not following them.

OK

OK

Its not impossible, it just that the world we live in makes it seem that way. People are always trying to impress others or to be someone who they are not. Its really not that hard to not lie, try it out.

It means do not be jealous and realized that we are all blessed in our own unique way.

God knows whats best for us, trust in God with all your heart.


Check out this site, it is more in depth explanation of each of the 10 commandments.

http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/index.html


God Bless

Praise Jesus

 

[alien444]

I will attempt to answer your questions (in order)

The commandments are important because they are basically the laws that God laid down for us to follow to be loyal to Him.

They are the correct things to do and the right choices in God's eyes, so yes.

No, God is simply using the fact that he brought them out of Egypt to remind them what He has done for them so that God's people do not lose faith.

By graven images, God moreover means that we should not brag or emphasize ourself, not to draw attention or cause a scene, however you want to word it. Not necessarily meaning literally an image, more of try not to idolize or put yourself on a high pedestal.

My thoughts are not God's, so I cant tell you this. Perhaps you should ask God. But if I had to answer, I would say that God made us, so why would he want his creations to not follow and be with him.

Refer to the answer above.

Perhaps it is, but God said to, so it will be done for God. God knows what to do, even if it seems wrong or strange in our eyes.

God does not want us to swear or to use His Holy name as a curse word. Why would you curse something you love? Think of it that way. And no, you can say God, Jesus, Yahweh, but not in vain (as a curse word).

It is, but thats our fault, not God's, the majority of the world does not follow His Holy commandments.

Jesus tells us to love all and to forgive. So it does not matter who they are, you should honor and respect your mom and dad.

The commandment never had any exceptions, again, its just us not following them.

OK

OK

Its not impossible, it just that the world we live in makes it seem that way. People are always trying to impress others or to be someone who they are not. Its really not that hard to not lie, try it out.

It means do not be jealous and realized that we are all blessed in our own unique way.

God knows whats best for us, trust in God with all your heart.


Check out this site, it is more in depth explanation of each of the 10 commandments.

The Ten Commandments - God's Ten Bible Commandments


God Bless

Praise Jesus

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

 

[ForJesusChrist]

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

No problem! Hope you have a wonderful Easter Sunday in Jesus name!

Jesus

 

[oi_antz]

Hi Alien, let me wish you a nice time on Easter too, with hopefully some time to remember what He stood for until the end. I don't suggest to know answers for all the questions here, but I will show you how I think for now to hopefully help you along a bit.

I appreciate everyone who engages with me on this site. I have wanted to ask this to a group of intelligent Christians for some time. Many of you have probably answered this question before, but if you could humor me by responding, I would appreciate your opinions. These are serious questions that I have, I am not trying to be facetious or sarcastic.

Why are the ten commandments important to Christians?
Are they really the best list of immoral actions/choices.

For me, the commandments are important because God wrote them. It is the only part of the bible where God has physically written instead of putting His words in the mouth of another person or another person having relayed what He has said to them. I don't know if they are the best list of moral guidelines, and I don't know if that was the intention. What gives you the idea that they are meant to be the best set of moral guidelines instead of just a few fundamental ones?

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

This is directed solely at the tribes of Israel, Why?

It is related to #2

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Why are graven images such a bad thing? Hasn't western civilization completely ignored this commandment (see the entire history of western art)

Take a look at this passage from Isaiah chapter 44:

The blacksmith takes a tool and works with it in the coals;
he shapes an idol with hammers, he forges it with the might of his arm.
He gets hungry and loses his strength; he drinks no water and grows faint.

The carpenter measures with a line and makes an outline with a marker;
he roughs it out with chisels and marks it with compasses.
He shapes it in human form, human form in all its glory, that it may dwell in a shrine.
He cut down cedars, or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest, or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.
It is used as fuel for burning; some of it he takes and warms himself, he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it; he makes an idol and bows down to it.
Half of the wood he burns in the fire; over it he prepares his meal, he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says, “Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”
From the rest he makes a god, his idol; he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says, “Save me! You are my god!”

...

No one stops to think, no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
“Half of it I used for fuel; I even baked bread over its coals, I roasted meat and I ate.
Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”
Such a person feeds on ashes; a deluded heart misleads him; he cannot save himself, or say, “Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?”

When you read this perspective and compare it to the perspective of God, can you see that praying to a block of wood for rain to break the drought, or anything else that only God has power for, is a bad thing? Does this make it more obvious for you?

Please explain to me why God is jealous.

Well, anyone who is not God is not His equal. If someone is worshiping them as God deserves, He should be entitled to feel jealous.

We recognize jealousy as a bad characteristic, and many people have successfully overcome it, why can't God.

What makes it a bad characteristic? Is it always wrong to be jealous? What about this situation, where an imposter or imaginary god is attracting the affection that ought to be given to Him?

Isn't it immoral to punish children for the sins of their father?

I don't know, it isn't my judgement. I personally don't do it and I don't know of a specific case that it has happened, but if you do and you want to take it up with Him, I think you should.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Why is this important to God ?This this mean to not say Yahweh?

I don't think that is what it means. Vanity is something that someone feels proud to be the way they are. Perhaps what this means is the act of using God in the pursuit of that vanity. I see this happening a lot, where people develop an identity as Godly people and then use this to promote their reputation. I think that is an act of taking His name in vain. An act of not taking His name in vain would be to suggest to someone "what do you think God would think?", as a way of referencing Him selflessly. What do you think God would have meant when He issued that command? I agree it doesn't make sense to prohibit a specific word from being used altogether, because words are specific descriptors and usually cannot be perfectly substituted.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your , male servant or your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.(?) For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Mostly ignored in western civilization, especially Europe.

I don't understand it. In western civilization there is largely two days a week like this. I expect that some rest is necessary to be able to appreciate life. I know it certainly has that value for me

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

What is your parents are sadistic? What about sexually or physically abused children?

I read an instruction to act so not to bring dishonour on them. I was a rebellious teen, getting in with crowds of troublesome people. That brought dishonour on my family's name. I don't think it means a child needs to stick around and get beaten. What do you think is the meaning that God intended?

6 “You shall not murder.

Except in war, capital punishment, or in case of breaking these commandments.

I don't know, I would not be comfortable with it in those cases. Still, until war comes to me I don't know how I would respond. There are many who flee war, perhaps they choose to honour this commandment.

7 “You shall not commit adultery.

Fair enough.

8 “You shall not steal.

Fair enough.

9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You should not lie? Fair enough, but is almost impossible to do as social beings?

I don't think this means to just not lie. If it did mean that, then that is what it would have said. Sometimes a lie is necessary for survival. What this specifically says is to not say that your neighbour did something that you know is a lie. What would make someone do this anyway, and is it ever a good thing, or a reasonable action from a human being?

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant (?), nor his female servant (?), nor his ox (?), nor his donkey(?) nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I agree with Buddha that desire is a source of suffering. I am content with what I have and material or sensual pleasures are fleeting and will never bring you true happiness. But is this commandment really supposed to be the literal word of God? Besides, coveting your neighbor's goods is the driving force of capitalism.

Buddha didn't really say that desire is the source of suffering did he? He used the word "root". By this he suggests that elimination of desire is the elimination of suffering, but that doesn't mean to say that desire is what has caused the suffering. Take a tornado for an example, which destroys a family's home. The desire did not cause the suffering, but if the family is content to not have a home then they would not feel the suffering.

Anyway, it is not necessary to covet in order to desire wealth. When you see someone's nice home, do you wish you could have it, or do you admire it and wish you could acquire your own? A lot of people do covet, though it is not necessarily everyone's motive for aquisition.

Couldn't anyone on this site come up with a list of ten better commandments for a society to follow. (empathy and compassion towards ALL creatures, rape, incest, slavery, child abuse, equality of the sexes, tolerance for differences, etc.)

I am certain they could, and I am pretty confident that society is ready to accept it. But, the context of the societies at the time of the Ten Commandments probably wasn't ready for it, and you need to see the context of the society that it was intended for. The legal system was yet to be established, and the definition of law to be decided as the society developed. Even as it does today in fact. Technologies and transgressions occur that are not yet recognized by law, and law is developed as a response.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I appreciate everyone who engages with me on this site. I have wanted to ask this to a group of intelligent Christians for some time. Many of you have probably answered this question before, but if you could humor me by responding, I would appreciate your opinions. These are serious questions that I have, I am not trying to be facetious or sarcastic.

Why are the ten commandments important to Christians?
Are they really the best list of immoral actions/choices.

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

This is directed solely at the tribes of Israel, Why?

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Why are graven images such a bad thing? Hasn't western civilization completely ignored this commandment (see the entire history of western art)
Please explain to me why God is jealous.
We recognize jealousy as a bad characteristic, and many people have successfully overcome it, why can't God.
Isn't it immoral to punish children for the sins of their father?


3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Why is this important to God ?This this mean to not say Yahweh?

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your , male servant or your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.(?) For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Mostly ignored in western civilization, especially Europe.



5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

What is your parents are sadistic? What about sexually or physically abused children?

6 “You shall not murder.

Except in war, capital punishment, or in case of breaking these commandments.


7 “You shall not commit adultery.

Fair enough.

8 “You shall not steal.

Fair enough.

9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You should not lie? Fair enough, but is almost impossible to do as social beings?

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant (?), nor his female servant (?), nor his ox (?), nor his donkey(?) nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I agree with Buddha that desire is a source of suffering. I am content with what I have and material or sensual pleasures are fleeting and will never bring you true happiness. But is this commandment really supposed to be the literal word of God? Besides, coveting your neighbor's goods is the driving force of capitalism.

Couldn't anyone on this site come up with a list of ten better commandments for a society to follow. (empathy and compassion towards ALL creatures, rape, incest, slavery, child abuse, equality of the sexes, tolerance for differences, etc.)

**Keeping in mind that different groups mark out/enumerate the Ten differently from one another (there's the Augustinian method used by Roman Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans; a "Protestant" method; an Orthodox method, and a Jewish method).**

The Decalogue consists in ten commandments out of a total of 613. These 613 commandments make up the Torah, the covenant instructions by which His covenant nation, Israel, was to live and conduct itself after God having delivered them out from Egypt was to put them in the promised land.

We need to remember that these are part of the broader giving of commandments that constitute the Torah, and as such were given exclusively to the Israelites as part of their Covenant with God, which God made with them on Sinai.

The point of the "Big Ten" tends to be lifted up to offer a sort of condensed summary of one's obligation to God and one's obligation to neighbor.

This is its catechetical use in Christian circles. For example, in the Lutheran Confessions we have Luther's Small Catechism which briefly outlines the essence we should take away from each commandment -- link here. In the Large Catechism Luther, of course, offers a more substantial commentary, but for brevity the Small suffices.

The Decalogue isn't intended as an all-comprehensive totality of everything Divine Law. Neither within the context of its giving as part of the Torah to the Jewish people, nor its use in Christian circles as a catechetical tool.

What the Decalogue does is offer a brief summary of man's obligation to God and man's obligation to his fellow man. It functions as a sort of condensation of Divine Law.

The Law is even further condensed in the Great Commandment, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your strength, with all your mind, and with all your soul; and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

But neither the Decalogue nor the Great Commandment are meant to be comprehensive. After all, Christians also remember the commandments of Christ, such as, "Love your enemy" and "Turn the other cheek" and so forth. These too are Law.

-CryptoLutheran

**I've attempted to distinguish "Law" and "Torah" here. "Torah" describes God's specific instructions to the Israelites as part of His covenant with them. The Torah was never given to anyone else. I've tried to speak of "Law" as a broader concept, of what God commands of us as people universally. The Decalogue shows an overlap, in that while the commandment, "Thou shalt not murder" is clearly here part of God's unique instruction to Israel; and yet murder remains wrong for everyone: It is both then Torah instruction and Divine Law.

 

[LilLamb219]

As ViaCrucis points out, we are to love God and our neighbor. By obeying the 10 Commandments (God's Holy Law) we show love to God and our neighbor. We also see, by trying to obey them, that we cannot fully do that and we see our need for the Savior who died on the cross to forgive us for our sins.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Christians are never commanded to keep the 10 commandments they were given to Israel (Jews) and ONLY Israel. One has to become part of Israel which includes being circumcised and then they can keep not only the 10 commandments but also all the commandments listed that were given at that time. We call those commandments given the Mosaic Law after Moses of which they were given through/too as he was the leader of the Jews/Israel at that time. Christians are given many commandments in the New Testament but the two commandments that were given that cover 9 of the 10 commandments are Love God and Love Your Neighbor. If you do this ANY obligation of the (Mosaic) Law is completed. If we are loving God and others then we won't want to murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, etc.

Christians under their obligation to love have it harder than what the 10 commandments prescribe in that instead of just us "not murdering" we are seen as sinful in even hating another as hating your brother is akin to murder and lusting after anothers wife is seen as adultery. In other words even our thoughts now are sinful not just our outward deeds.

The one commandment definitely not mentioned anywhere for Christians to keep is the Sabbath commandment. Without commanding to keep this one the keeping of the 10 is a moot point. You will see all sorts of arguments used to include this commandment to bind it upon Christians but they all base it upon scripture that was specific to only the Jews who were already by allegiance to Israel as a citizen required to keep such. Ironically Paul later concludes that in Christ there is no Jew or Greek (Gentile) they both are seen as the same which means Christians are no longer obligated to Mosaic Law be they Jewish or not.

 

[ViaCrucis]

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Why are graven images such a bad thing? Hasn't western civilization completely ignored this commandment (see the entire history of western art)
Please explain to me why God is jealous.
We recognize jealousy as a bad characteristic, and many people have successfully overcome it, why can't God.
Isn't it immoral to punish children for the sins of their father?

Traditionally this is considered part of the first commandment. The First Commandment covers the having of only one God and that means not worshiping idols--hence no graven image. The commandment is not against images, but idols. In fact God instructs His people to make images--the cherubim who cover the Ark of the Covenant, the bronze serpent for the Israelites in the wilderness, etc.

So it has nothing to do with image-making, but idolatry--the worship of gods that are not gods, but are at best inanimate objects. God's "jealousy" is in this vein, that there are no other gods, and thus to treat a non-god as though it were a god is an offense against the Divine dignity.

It's not a command in favor of iconoclasm; as the 2nd Council of Nicea in the 8th century makes clear that icons are not idols, and holy images are acceptable in the Church as signposts that look back to the Incarnation.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Why is this important to God ?This this mean to not say Yahweh?

It literally refers to swearing falsely by Yahweh's name. To not bring God's name to shame through false oaths.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your , male servant or your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.(?) For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Mostly ignored in western civilization, especially Europe.

The Shabbot was given exclusively to the Jews as part of their Covenant with God.

Christians have no Shabbot to observe and keep. Rather we understand the spirit of the commandment is about setting time aside to honor God, and also the importance of resting from our work.

There is no such thing as a Christian Sabbath; but we do honor God with days of observance, and we should remember that resting from our work is good.

Most important, however, is that we understand that the Sabbath points us to the finished work of God in Christ, in whom we have our true rest from the weariness of this life of sin and death. Christ is our spiritual Sabbath.

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

What is your parents are sadistic? What about sexually or physically abused children?

The commandment means we are to respect those in authority, not follow them blindly even when they are evil. No, we do not honor those who abuse their children, or who are abusive from the place of authority.

6 “You shall not murder.

Except in war, capital punishment, or in case of breaking these commandments.

Murder is murder. Every society has accepted in some form that lawful killing may be a tragic necessity. I don't believe in capital punishment, and I'm not a fan of war; but the point of this commandment is to condemn the unlawful taking of human life; not address the ethical issues of capital punishment and war.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[alien444]

Christians are never commanded to keep the 10 commandments they were given to Israel (Jews) and ONLY Israel. One has to become part of Israel which includes being circumcised and then they can keep not only the 10 commandments but also all the commandments listed that were given at that time. We call those commandments given the Mosaic Law after Moses of which they were given through/too as he was the leader of the Jews/Israel at that time. Christians are given many commandments in the New Testament but the two commandments that were given that cover 9 of the 10 commandments are Love God and Love Your Neighbor. If you do this ANY obligation of the (Mosaic) Law is completed. If we are loving God and others then we won't want to murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, etc.

Christians under their obligation to love have it harder than what the 10 commandments prescribe in that instead of just us "not murdering" we are seen as sinful in even hating another as hating your brother is akin to murder and lusting after anothers wife is seen as adultery. In other words even our thoughts now are sinful not just our outward deeds.

The one commandment definitely not mentioned anywhere for Christians to keep is the Sabbath commandment. Without commanding to keep this one the keeping of the 10 is a moot point. You will see all sorts of arguments used to include this commandment to bind it upon Christians but they all base it upon scripture that was specific to only the Jews who were already by allegiance to Israel as a citizen required to keep such. Ironically Paul later concludes that in Christ there is no Jew or Greek (Gentile) they both are seen as the same which means Christians are no longer obligated to Mosaic Law be they Jewish or not.

Well I get missed messages from Christians about the adherence to the OT and the ten commandments. I just don's see how it is a settled issue among Christians. I am the first to admit that I am weak on theology, but looking at the familiar verses below, it seems to me that Jesus says that the commandments in the OT (all of them) should continue to be followed and to love your God and your neighbor is fundamental to the commandments but in no way negates their importance for Christians.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one jot or tittle of the law to fail" (Luke 16:17); "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law" (Matthew 5:17),
[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif], "I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" (vs.17-18)[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment. And the second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and Prophets" (Matthew 22:37-40);[/FONT]

I have heard the argument that by "fulfill" Jesus was saying that he came to bring full meaning to the law, thereby strengthening its importance. This is based on the original Greek word for fulfill meaning to "fill to the top" or "cause to abound"

If Christians are to believe that the ten commandments are the only example in the bible of God's direct communication to man (instead of "inspired" composition), then how could their importance ever even be questioned?
​

 

[Sophrosyne]

Well I get missed messages from Christians about the adherence to the OT and the ten commandments. I just don's see how it is a settled issue among Christians. I am the first to admit that I am weak on theology, but looking at the familiar verses below, it seems to me that Jesus says that the commandments in the OT (all of them) should continue to be followed and to love your God and your neighbor is fundamental to the commandments but in no way negates their importance for Christians.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one jot or tittle of the law to fail" (Luke 16:17); "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law" (Matthew 5:17),
[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif], "I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" (vs.17-18)[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment. And the second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and Prophets" (Matthew 22:37-40);[/FONT]

I have heard the argument that by "fulfill" Jesus was saying that he came to bring full meaning to the law, thereby strengthening its importance. This is based on the original Greek word for fulfill meaning to "fill to the top" or "cause to abound"

If Christians are to believe that the ten commandments are the only example in the bible of God's direct communication to man (instead of "inspired" composition), then how could their importance ever even be questioned?
​

One has to go beyond writings of Jews who were under obligation to the Law of Moses and study Paul's writings very carefully. The Gospels and Jesus words prior to the cross were based upon keeping the Law and based upon those who were obligated to. Jesus himself said his audience was Israel only (even though there was a very few exceptions) and his words were based upon the Law in full operation at the time. We don't have his words (directly) after the cross instead he commissioned Paul to speak for him regarding our position now in Christ post Cross.
In other words the cross changed everything. Jews and Greeks (gentiles) are now considered the SAME in Christ per Paul there is no Mosaic Law in Christianity otherwise there would be no non Jews allowed to be "saved" as the Mosaic Law was an obligation, not a voluntary choice those who operated outside of the Law (includes the 10 commandments) were considered foreign to God as far as covenants were concerned. In the OT those who accepted God had to become part of Israel and circumcised and keep ALL of the Law. We now have a New Covenant which excludes the Law operating upon us in an obligatory manner. People may choose to keep parts of the Law but are warned by Paul and James that if you put emphasis upon it for salvation you have to keep it all or nothing as one mistake is akin to breaking ALL OF THE LAW.

 

[dcalling]

I appreciate everyone who engages with me on this site. I have wanted to ask this to a group of intelligent Christians for some time. Many of you have probably answered this question before, but if you could humor me by responding, I would appreciate your opinions. These are serious questions that I have, I am not trying to be facetious or sarcastic.

Why are the ten commandments important to Christians?
Are they really the best list of immoral actions/choices.

I think it is very important, I try to keep all of them (the Sabbath one is very hard).
What God really want, as Jesus explains, is to love your neighbor as yourself. I think the 10 commandments are a helper for that, obey the 10 to archive the real goal.

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

This is directed solely at the tribes of Israel, Why?

I think it is directed to everyone.

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Why are graven images such a bad thing? Hasn't western civilization completely ignored this commandment (see the entire history of western art)
Please explain to me why God is jealous.
We recognize jealousy as a bad characteristic, and many people have successfully overcome it, why can't God.
Isn't it immoral to punish children for the sins of their father?

In the bible, the Isrealites made images not for arty, but to worship. When people worship something other than God, bad things happen. Nowadays most people don't worship idols, but money, power.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Why is this important to God ?This this mean to not say Yahweh?

To my understanding, use the name of God in vain is to use God for your own gain, i.e. start war in the name of God.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your , male servant or your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.(?) For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Mostly ignored in western civilization, especially Europe.

I try to keep it. Many of my fellow church members think it is Jewish only, I think God set it aside for Sunday service , and I try my best not to buy anything or do work on Sunday (Jews made it Saturday).

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

What is your parents are sadistic? What about sexually or physically abused children?

You have to honor them anyways, Remember Jesus explains that the biggest law is to love your neighbors as yourself, to love your enemies. If you can't honor your bad parent, how can you love your enemies?

6 “You shall not murder.

Except in war, capital punishment, or in case of breaking these commandments.

7 “You shall not commit adultery.
Fair enough.

8 “You shall not steal.

Fair enough.

9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You should not lie? Fair enough, but is almost impossible to do as social beings?

You should always interpret the law under the golden rule, this should be lie for bad things only, if you lie to your wife that she is not fat, that is exception in my mind.

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant (?), nor his female servant (?), nor his ox (?), nor his donkey(?) nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I agree with Buddha that desire is a source of suffering. I am content with what I have and material or sensual pleasures are fleeting and will never bring you true happiness. But is this commandment really supposed to be the literal word of God? Besides, coveting your neighbor's goods is the driving force of capitalism.

No, the driving force of capitalism is not coveting your neighbor's goods, the driving force of capitalism is to make profit by providing a service to others. It runs best when people follow the rules, try to out do others on innovation, prices, and covet of money usually causing problems.

Couldn't anyone on this site come up with a list of ten better commandments for a society to follow. (empathy and compassion towards ALL creatures, rape, incest, slavery, child abuse, equality of the sexes, tolerance for differences, etc.)

As many has pointed out, Jesus already said the biggest rule of all is the "Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself" rule, with that one rule, all the other stuff (equality for all, women etc) are all included.

 

[aiki]

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

This is directed solely at the tribes of Israel, Why?

Because the Israelites were God's Chosen People. I don't think these commandments were intended solely for Israel, however.

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Why are graven images such a bad thing? Hasn't western civilization completely ignored this commandment (see the entire history of western art)
Please explain to me why God is jealous.
We recognize jealousy as a bad characteristic, and many people have successfully overcome it, why can't God.
Isn't it immoral to punish children for the sins of their father?

Graven images, per se, are not bad things. Graven images serving as idols of false gods are a different matter.

God is jealous in the way that a husband is jealous of the affections of his wife. It would, to say the least, be strange for a man to tell his wife, "I love you deeply," and then not care a whit if she goes off and has affairs with other men. The normal, healthy response of a husband to another man encroaching upon the affections of his wife is jealousy. Jealousy is a reflection of the value the husband puts upon his wife. So, too, with God. He is jealous of His own because He values them highly.

There is jealousy that is selfish and controlling, but this is not the sort of jealousy God has for His own children. God's jealousy reflects the perfection of His Person.

God does not punish the son for the sins of the father. But the consequences of a father's sins may extend to following generations. Children tend to follow the example of their parents, good or bad. A wicked father trains up wicked children. God promises to allow this emulation of wickedness to proceed unhindered - and the destruction that accompanies it - among those who hate Him. But for those who love Him, God promises to show mercy and bestow His blessings.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Why is this important to God ?This this mean to not say Yahweh?

Because His name is above all names; it is sacred and holy and should be shown the highest respect in its use.

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

What is your parents are sadistic? What about sexually or physically abused children?

Why would this command apply under such circumstances?

6 “You shall not murder.

Except in war, capital punishment, or in case of breaking these commandments.

One does not murder the enemy on the battlefield, nor do duly appointed governmental officials murder when they enact the judicially-mandated penalties of the law. And taking a life under the order of the One who gave it is not murder, either.

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant (?), nor his female servant (?), nor his ox (?), nor his donkey(?) nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

I agree with Buddha that desire is a source of suffering. I am content with what I have and material or sensual pleasures are fleeting and will never bring you true happiness. But is this commandment really supposed to be the literal word of God? Besides, coveting your neighbor's goods is the driving force of capitalism.

Yes, it is the literal Word of God.

Couldn't anyone on this site come up with a list of ten better commandments for a society to follow. (empathy and compassion towards ALL creatures, rape, incest, slavery, child abuse, equality of the sexes, tolerance for differences, etc.)

See the Sermon on the Mount.

Selah.

 

[alien444]

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

What is your parents are sadistic? What about sexually or physically abused children?


You have to honor them anyways, Remember Jesus explains that the biggest law is to love your neighbors as yourself, to love your enemies. If you can't honor your bad parent, how can you love your enemies?



I don't know if you really believe this or not, however, I think most Christians would agree with this statement; but this is precisely the kind of thinking and commentary that scares the crap of secularists.
Christians who morally acquiesce to a book written by humans who had less accumulated knowledge than the most uninformed modern human on the planet today, are in power in all branches of government and are making decisions that affect everyone. To paraphrase Sam Harris, we need a 21st century conversation on morality, not a Bronze Age conversation on morality.

 

[aiki]

Christians who morally acquiesce to a book written by humans

Christians don't believe the Bible was authored by humans but by God, which is why they give it the authority that they do.

who had less accumulated knowledge than the most uninformed modern human on the planet today,

Possessing a large body of knowledge does not necessarily mean one also possesses greater moral insight. Far from it. Despite the Information Age it has spawned, the 20th century has been the most violent in all of human history.

are in power in all branches of government and are making decisions that affect everyone. To paraphrase Sam Harris, we need a 21st century conversation on morality, not a Bronze Age conversation on morality.

Sam Harris' rhetoric is just that - rhetoric. The moral commands of Jesus are as appropriate today as they were when he first uttered them. It is his moral directives that have given rise to hospitals, universities, countless charities, and the many rights and freedoms enjoyed by western cultures today.

Selah.

 

[oi_antz]

I don't know if you really believe this or not, however, I think most Christians would agree with this statement; but this is precisely the kind of thinking and commentary that scares the crap of secularists.

Hey, I am not secular and it scares me to see these words. I have not read any scripture that indicates Jesus supports child abuse, or that abuse should ever be tolerated. I don't know what would make a person say such a thing, but I agree it is scary. I would expect to see this sort of statement from a cult member, not someone who has been liberated by the Messiah of God. What do you think motivates someone to believe and say such a thing?

 

[alien444]

Hey, I am not secular and it scares me to see these words. I have not read any scripture that indicates Jesus supports child abuse, or that abuse should ever be tolerated. I don't know what would make a person say such a thing, but I agree it is scary. I would expect to see this sort of statement from a cult member, not someone who has been liberated by the Messiah of God. What do you think motivates someone to believe and say such a thing?

I agree, and I don't know if the poster actually believes this or just got pinned in by his logic but there are a lot of people who believe it is justifiable based on this commandment even if they wouldn't act upon it. I believe people say such things because they are logically sound. If you have a clearly worded commandment straight from an omnipotent being that is not qualified in any way, then it has to be taken as an absolute truth. This commandment can only mean that parents must be honored regardless of circumstances which is of course horrible advice.

 

[alien444]

Christians don't believe the Bible was authored by humans but by God, which is why they give it the authority that they do.

If it is authored by God then it should be followed to the letter. The Amish probably follow it closer than any sect, but to follow it exactly would likely lead to prison or a mental institution as you would be very busy stoning people to death.
Possessing a large body of knowledge does not necessarily mean one also possesses greater moral insight. Far from it. Despite the Information Age it has spawned, the 20th century has been the most violent in all of human history.

That is categorically false and absurd. The humans who wrote the bible had a life span of about 40 and thought the wheel barrow was the height of human innovation. They had no knowledge of civil and human rights, equality of the sexes, the evil of slavery. Ignorance almost always equals immorality. While nuclear weapons have made the world potentially less safe, the modern world is far more peaceful now than in any other time in history. We have learned that crucifixion, torture, genocide, slavery, rape, incest, and racism are actually bad things. Go to this website and you will understand.
www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence#

Sam Harris' rhetoric is just that - rhetoric. The moral commands of Jesus are as appropriate today as they were when he first uttered them. It is his moral directives that have given rise to hospitals, universities, countless charities, and the many rights and freedoms enjoyed by western cultures today.

If you want to see what a civilization looks like when it follows the moral directives of the bible, check out western civilization during the Dark Ages. Secularism and the physical and social sciences are what have given rise to everything on your list.

Selah.

.

 

[aiki]

If it is authored by God then it should be followed to the letter. The Amish probably follow it closer than any sect, but to follow it exactly would likely lead to prison or a mental institution as you would be very busy stoning people to death.

Why would a Christian be required to stone anyone to death? I don't see that mandated for any follower of Christ in the Bible. Instead, Christ commands his followers:

Mat 5:43 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbour, and hate your enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven...

I don't see how living this way would lead to prison or a mental institution...

Possessing a large body of knowledge does not necessarily mean one also possesses greater moral insight. Far from it. Despite the Information Age it has spawned, the 20th century has been the most violent in all of human history.

That is categorically false and absurd. The humans who wrote the bible had a life span of about 40 and thought the wheel barrow was the height of human innovation.

Actually, what you've just written here is "categorically false and absurd." Clearly, you know little of the Bible or its authors. The apostle Paul was killed when he was almost sixty; the apostle John died in his nineties; the other writers of the New Testament were executed.

Paul and John and the other apostles were well-acquainted with Roman society which was, technologically-speaking, advanced far beyond wheelbarrows. In light of the technologies they would have encountered in their captivity in Egypt and Babylonia, the Israelites of the Old Testament would not have found wheelbarrows remarkable in the least, either.

They had no knowledge of civil and human rights, equality of the sexes, the evil of slavery.

We see just the opposite in evidence in what is written in the books of the New Testament.

Ignorance almost always equals immorality. While nuclear weapons have made the world potentially less safe, the modern world is far more peaceful now than in any other time in history.

But this is utterly false. In the 20th century there were the two Great World Wars (WWI - 10,670,868 dead, WWII - 50,000,000 dead) the Korean War (995,000 dead), the Vietnamese War (2,048,050 dead), The Mexican Revolution (125,000 dead), THe Russian Revolution (802,225 dead), The Spanish Civil War (466,300 dead), The Chinese Civil War (1,200,000 dead), The Cambodian Civil War (246,204 dead), the Chinese Revolution (2,050,000 dead), The Hutu Rebellion (153,000 dead)and on, and on it goes. Genocides, too, are a prominent feature of the 20th century. Bosnia-Herzegovina (200,000 killed), Rwanda (800,000 killed), Pol Pot in Cambodia (2,000,000 killed), the Nazi Holocaust (6,000,000 killed), Stalin's forced famine (7,000,000 killed) - and so on. As I said, no other century has experienced so much violence and death as the 20th century. And the advancements of technology and the explosion of information have grown right alongside the darkness and death of the 20th century. Cleary, an increase in knowledge does not equate to greater moral insight and action.

We have learned that crucifixion, torture, genocide, slavery, rape, incest, and racism are actually bad things.

Who is "we"? Obviously, you are not aware that the 20th century saw more slavery than any previous century in human history. Human trafficking is at an all-time high. Today some 27 million people around the globe are slaves.

Modern Slavery Statistics - Abolition Media : Abolition Media

Torture, rape, incest, racism - all of these things have plagued the 20th century. And the advancement of knowledge in the last century has done little to stem the tide of such evil. Now we have people shooting children to death in their schools, and massacres in movie theaters, or college campuses, or workplaces.

Selah.