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Justatruthseeker

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The Sun, an enigma for ages. Just a ball of gas with a thermonuclear core, or does it have a surface like every other object in the solar system?
I'll let you decide now that we have the technology to *see*. Thanks to SOHO and Trace satellites.

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/T171_000828.avi
 

BarryDesborough

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Justatruthseeker

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What the screaming abdabs are you on about?

Figure it out, maybe you should watch it where the intervening plasma layers have been screened out. It's called technology and advancement. It supports the recent finding of abnormally low (read 1%) of that required to allow convection.
[1206.3173] Anomalously Weak Solar Convection

Maybe you need to watch that non-moving surface below the plasma atmosphere again....
http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/T171_000828.avi

I should note this is at the frequency of iron molecules, if that helps in contemplation of 1000 year old beliefs.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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The effects of dark matter are observed.


No, an unexplained phenomenon is observed. That it is electrical forces in plasma, 99.99% of the universe is more likely than Fairie Dust that cannot be detected or measured, and is only needed in select spots. Don't need that Fairie Dust in the solar system or the center of the galaxy where plasma and matter is in close confines, just where your math doesn't work, about 96% of the universe.
 
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LogicDreamer

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No, an unexplained phenomenon is observed. That it is electrical forces in plasma, 99.99% of the universe is more likely than Fairie Dust that cannot be detected or measured, and is only needed in select spots. Don't need that Fairie Dust in the solar system or the center of the galaxy where plasma and matter is in close confines, just where your math doesn't work, about 96% of the universe.

No, the effects of dark matter are observed with gravitational lensing of background radiation in addition to obscure gravitational effects on observable matter. The term "dark matter" is a placeholder and not to be taken literally.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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No, the effects of dark matter are observed with gravitational lensing of background radiation in addition to obscure gravitational effects on observable matter. The term "dark matter" is a placeholder and not to be taken literally.


I know, its a placeholder for plasma and electric currents as soon as you get around to admitting these currents exists and do something, despite your claims they don't.

http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/articles/hazards-of-solar-wind-on-moon/

NASA - The Electric Atmosphere: Plasma Is Next NASA Science Target

NASA - Cassini Sees Saturn Electric Link With Enceladus

NASA - Electric Moon Jolts the Solar Wind

2001 News Releases - Jupiter's Io Generates Power and Noise, But No Magnetic Field

Learn what plasma is. NASA is trying to tell you if you will but listen.
 
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ReverendDG

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I know, its a placeholder for plasma and electric currents as soon as you get around to admitting these currents exists and do something, despite your claims they don't.

Hazards of Solar Wind On Moon | NASA Lunar Science Institute

NASA - The Electric Atmosphere: Plasma Is Next NASA Science Target

NASA - Cassini Sees Saturn Electric Link With Enceladus

NASA - Electric Moon Jolts the Solar Wind

2001 News Releases - Jupiter's Io Generates Power and Noise, But No Magnetic Field

Learn what plasma is. NASA is trying to tell you if you will but listen.

whats there to learn? you are one of those electric universe types who thinks all questions are answered by spewing drivel about the electric universe even though the evidence for a lot of the claims made by the idea are bogus.

ooo look a bunch of press releases by people hired to write press releases! lets see the science, not press releases...they prove nothing.


as we all know, it has to be one or the other, and not both.. like plasma can't exist with the standard theories about the sun and planets...
 
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Justatruthseeker

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whats there to learn? you are one of those electric universe types who thinks all questions are answered by spewing drivel about the electric universe even though the evidence for a lot of the claims made by the idea are bogus.

ooo look a bunch of press releases by people hired to write press releases! lets see the science, not press releases...they prove nothing.


as we all know, it has to be one or the other, and not both.. like plasma can't exist with the standard theories about the sun and planets...


Ignore NASA if you want, not my concern. Your thermonuclear core is dead, get over it already and move on. Your comet theory is dead, they ain't balls of icy dust, get over it and move on. There is no dark matter, just electrical interactions in plasma, get over it and move on.

ALL your scientists know it, strange you don't.

http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mendis_Horanyi_ROG_2013.pdf

Get over it, move on, come join the future. Its coming whether you like it or not.
 
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Michael

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The effects of dark matter are observed.

It would be more correct to say that the effect of 'missing mass" are observed. Whether any of that "missing mass" is contained in exotic forms of matter is a whole different issue.
 
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Michael

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No, the effects of dark matter are observed with gravitational lensing of background radiation in addition to obscure gravitational effects on observable matter. The term "dark matter" is a placeholder and not to be taken literally.

Actually, *if* that were the only claim NASA and others were making, I'd tend to agree with you. Since however they all keep claiming that 'exotic matter did it', that's a horse of a completely different color.

Dark matter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A small proportion of dark matter may be baryonic dark matter: astronomical bodies, such as massive compact halo objects, that are composed of ordinary matter but which emit little or no electromagnetic radiation. Study of nucleosynthesis in the Big Bang produces an upper bound on the amount of baryonic matter in the universe,[13] which indicates that the vast majority of dark matter in the universe cannot be baryons, and thus does not form atoms. It also cannot interact with ordinary matter via electromagnetic forces; in particular, dark matter particles do not carry any electric charge.

FYI, all of these claims are *predicated* upon an affirming the consequent fallacy related to BB nucleosynthesis projections. None of these statements can be demonstrated in controlled experimentation, and all the 'simple' brands of SUSY theory, including WIMPS, were already falsified at LHC.

If you were correct that the mainstream wasn't making additional claims about the nature of 'dark matter', I might not be such a skeptic. In fact however, they are making an *outrageous* number of claims about the nature of dark matter. Specifically they are claiming that a new type of matter must exist, and it must make up the bulk of the "missing mass'.

Note however that the mainstream *never* accounts for EM field influences in spacetime, so their calculations related to rotation curves are dubious at best. Peratt was able to replicate virtually every type of galaxy using simple EM fields, and we just found more mass in the form of ordinary baryons in 2012 than we had know about in the history of mankind, prior to last year.

Colossal Gas Cloud Discovered Around Milky Way | Space.com
 
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Michael

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whats there to learn?

We might learn about the actual cause of solar wind for starters.....

Birkeland actually *predicted* that *both types* of high speed charged particles came from the sun based on his active experimentation in the lab with a 'cathode sun'. He also predicted the existence of high speed plasma jets, electric discharge "flares", and pretty much everything we observe in SDO images today. Unlike the mainstream model however, Birkeland's solar model was never dependent upon convection as a major source of energy in the solar atmosphere.

Keep in mind that the *standard solar theory bit the dust* last year in terms of their "power supply", and their claim about elements staying mixed together in the solar atmosphere by convection.

Weak solar convection – approximately 100 times slower than scientists had previously projected | Watts Up With That?

you are one of those electric universe types who thinks all questions are answered by spewing drivel about the electric universe
What "drivel"? A lack of specifics makes it tough to respond meaningfully.

even though the evidence for a lot of the claims made by the idea are bogus.
Speaking of bogus claims, how about those bogus mainstream claims about fast convection? Should we simply ignore that data because it doesn't jive with preconceived theory?

ooo look a bunch of press releases by people hired to write press releases! lets see the science, not press releases...they prove nothing.
There have been published papers on a variety of topics in EU theory. What kind of *science" are you looking for that Birkeland didn't already perform *in the lab*?

as we all know, it has to be one or the other, and not both..
Actually it could be "none of the above" as well. :)

like plasma can't exist with the standard theories about the sun and planets...
I don't understand that statement. Even in the standard theory, the sun *is* a plasma. A "cathode sun" might also be composed of mostly plasma. Alfven's concept of an "electric sun" was actually not particularly different from the standard model in terms of energy generation, but it was radically different in the way it electrically interacts with the rest of the universe.

I'd be the first to admit that *some* "electric universe" ideas are a little 'out there', but compared to mainstream theory, it's not that bad. Even at the level of solar physics, the mainstream theory has started to unravel due to the technologies of SDO, and PLANCK is rewriting cosmology theory as we speak. Already the mainstream is talking about adding a *forth* ad hoc supernatural entity to get their model to 'work right'. :confused: :doh:
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Isn't all matter dark until some electromagnetic wave reflects off of it into a sensor that can then sense it? We simply just need the correct frequency and sensor to bring the dark matter into the light.


No, according to mainstream dark matter does not interact with EM forces. We have already observed it. It is *plasma* found everywhere we look, existing in large filaments and braids stretching from galaxy to galaxy and as what they term clouds of gas or dust throughout space. These same scientists 20 years ago said no electric currents existed in space, now we find them everywhere. So they were wrong about electric currents existing in space to begin with. Since their discovery have they revised their theory? Nope. Now they mention the electric currents, they have to, it is in the data, but they just do not apply any action to it. According to mainstream they are just there, they do nothing, even though it is acknowledged the electrical force is 10 billion, billion, billion, billion, billion times stronger than what we term gravity.

Also we have doubled the amount of mass found - see Michael's post above - and doubled it again.

New View: Universe Suddenly Twice as Bright | Space.com

Those plasma filaments are there if one just looks at the data.

Vast Cosmic Filament Discovered Connecting Milky Way to the Universe

Of course they apply this filament to dark matter even though plasma makes up 99.99% of the universe and naturally forms filaments.

I am searching for it now and when I find it will post it. There was a discovery about the same time that showed the number of stars was vastly underestimated as well, making more matter in the universe. These mass discoveries have not yet caused them to go back and revise their DM estimates, even though the addition of more normal mass would require less non-baryon mass. So from 26% non-baryon mass we should be down to about 4% now with the addition of all this extra mass left out of the equations. Within the next 10 years I expect to be able to drop that to 0%.

Found one of them, there is still another and will continue to look for it.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2010-12-01-dwarf-stars_N.htm?csp=34news

And not to leave out this extra mass as well.

http://www.noao.edu/news/2013/pr1306.php

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2...ars-than-previously-believed-astronomer-says/

http://www.sciencerecorder.com/news...rger-than-previously-thought-astronomers-say/

http://space.about.com/b/2010/03/29/the-universe-has-more-stuff-than-previously-thought.htm
 
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Michael

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Isn't all matter dark until some electromagnetic wave reflects off of it into a sensor that can then sense it? We simply just need the correct frequency and sensor to bring the dark matter into the light.

Well, not exactly, but sorta.........

"Supposedly" dark matter is "dark" because it neither emits or absorbs light (usually) nor does it interact with EM fields. They do tend to sometimes make bold and unsubstantiated claims about "dark matter" annihilating, and emitting positrons and gamma rays.

A Whiff of Dark Matter on the ISS - NASA Science

Now of course positron emissions are directly (physically) related to electrical discharges, and every "popular" SUSY and WIMP theory was already falsified at LHC.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Well, not exactly, but sorta.........

"Supposedly" dark matter is "dark" because it neither emits or absorbs light (usually) nor does it interact with EM fields. They do tend to sometimes make bold and unsubstantiated claims about "dark matter" annihilating, and emitting positrons and gamma rays.

A Whiff of Dark Matter on the ISS - NASA Science

Now of course positron emissions are directly (physically) related to electrical discharges, and every "popular" SUSY and WIMP theory was already falsified at LHC.


Yah, but with a claimed excellent accuracy of 1% for their measurements, I wouldn't worry about that going anywhere at all.
"The accuracy of our measurements is 1%, which is excellent, and we have statistics unmatched by any other spacecraft," says Ting.
Only in astronomy would a 1% accuracy be considered excellent, and only in the search for DM. In every other field it would be considered a dismal failure. Even the Michelson–Morley experiment detected a small ether movement of about 25% of that predicted at the time, yet was considered a null result of the ether.

And the statistics unmatched by any other spacecraft simply means all other results have been null and no other spacecraft data supports their conclusion... So we have a 99% chance it doesn't concern DM at all. And positrons have many theoretical sources as it is. Electrical interactions as you noted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron

So one should take such claims with a grain of salt.
 
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Michael

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Yah, but with a claimed excellent accuracy of 1% for their measurements, I wouldn't worry about that going anywhere at all.
Only in astronomy would a 1% accuracy be considered excellent, and only in the search for DM. In every other field it would be considered a dismal failure. Even the Michelson–Morley experiment detected a small ether movement of about 25% of that predicted at the time, yet was considered a null result of the ether.

And the statistics unmatched by any other spacecraft simply means all other results have been null and no other spacecraft data supports their conclusion... So we have a 99% chance it doesn't concern DM at all. And positrons have many theoretical sources as it is.
Positron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So one should take such claims with a grain of salt.

Not just a grain of salt, a *whole truck load of salt*. It's not even the 1% accuracy of their measurements that's the real problem. The real problem is that they never demonstrated that positrons are in any way related to "dark matter". They simply *assumed* that high energy positrons are related to DM, and then they pulled another obvious affirming the consequent fallacy out of their back pocket.

The fact of the matter is that positron emissions *are directly empirically linked* to electrical discharges, not "dark matter". Their aversion to EM field activity in space makes their entire belief system predicated upon pure denial. They never even *mentioned* the "most common" source of positrons in that article, not even once. Even their claim about "pulsars" being a source of high energy positrons is due to the fact that a heavily magnetized spinning object would necessarily induce currents in the plasma around that object, and produce (drum roll please...) "electrical discharges" in the atmosphere around the pulsar. They intentionally avoided all use of the term 'discharge' however. :(

Like I said, their entire belief system is predicated of *denial* of the relevance/validity of EU/PC theory, and it's predicated on a series of affirming the consequent fallacies.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Not just a grain of salt, a *whole truck load of salt*. It's not even the 1% accuracy of their measurements that's the real problem. The real problem is that they never demonstrated that positrons are in any way related to "dark matter". They simply *assumed* that high energy positrons are related to DM, and then they pulled another obvious affirming the consequent fallacy out of their back pocket.

The fact of the matter is that positron emissions *are directly empirically linked* to electrical discharges, not "dark matter". Their aversion to EM field activity in space makes their entire belief system predicated upon pure denial. They never even *mentioned* the "most common" source of positrons in that article, not even once. Even their claim about "pulsars" being a source of high energy positrons is due to the fact that a heavily magnetized spinning object would necessarily induce currents in the plasma around that object, and produce (drum roll please...) "electrical discharges" in the atmosphere around the pulsar. They intentionally avoided all use of the term 'discharge' however. :(

Like I said, their entire belief system is predicated of *denial* of the relevance/validity of EU/PC theory, and it's predicated on a series of affirming the consequent fallacies.


That is because as everyone knows, electric currents cannot exist in space.

NASA - Cassini Sees Saturn Electric Link With Enceladus

ftp://space.mit.edu/pub/plasma/publications/jwb_io/jwb_io.withthumbs.pdf

Jupiter's Electric Moon Io

NASA - Electric Moon Jolts the Solar Wind

It is quite obvious that there are no such things as electric currents in space. Right? :doh:
 
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Michael

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That is because as everyone knows, electric currents cannot exist in space.

NASA - Cassini Sees Saturn Electric Link With Enceladus

ftp://space.mit.edu/pub/plasma/publications/jwb_io/jwb_io.withthumbs.pdf

Jupiter's Electric Moon Io

NASA - Electric Moon Jolts the Solar Wind

It is quite obvious that there are no such things as electric currents in space. Right? :doh:

I'm pretty sure now that it will be solar physics that overturns astronomy as we know it. Once they figure out that Birkeland was right about the sun interacting with "space", it's going to change the way we look at "space".

That convection falsification was a death sentence to mainstream solar physics. Birkeland's solar model isn't dependent upon convection as an energy source for solar atmospheric activity, so it's virtually irrelevant to his model.

Convection *is* the mainstream model when it comes to mathematically modelling the atmospheric behaviors of the sun. They *need* those strong magnetic fields that were supposedly caused by convection to explain solar flares and CME's. Without fast convection, their mathematical models are completely dead in the water.

That's not even the *worst* part however. Without high speed convection, there's no logical way to claim that iron and nickel stay mixed together with wispy thin hydrogen and helium atoms at the surface of the photosphere. There is no way to maintain that claim at 1 percent of predicted convection speeds.

Pretty much the entire solar theory is at stake in those convection measurements, and thus far nobody has taken any "shots" at those findings. It's been a year now, and nothing had contradicted those findings. What now?

The other shoe is already dropping in those high resolution SDO images. It's quite clear in the SDO images that the current carrying flux ropes rise up and through the surface of the photosphere, and fall back into that surface. They "light up' (heat up) that surface in 1700A and 1600A images. They leave magnetic footprints on that surface that is directly related to the flow of current through the loop as it traverses that surface. The whole thing can be put together now in real time using online (and offline) tools like Helioviewer.

It's only a matter of time before the guys that do spaceweather forecasting start to 'jump ship' and start realizing that Birkeland's model was correct in terms of solar atmospheric activity. Once that change takes place, the rest will follow, but solar physics has to change first IMO.

Then again, that Planck data is a real kick in the teeth for inflation theory. The homogeneous layout of matter was inflation's last claim to fame. Now even that's gone.
 
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