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Genesis 1:
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament/expanse in the midst of the waters/mayim, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven/sha-mayim. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Expanse is from the root to stretch, beat out....
The expanse/firmament in the midst of the waters is the stretched out heavens -firmament/expanse. Paradise is in the third layer/story of the stretched out firmament/expanse/heavens.
1. The root word in both Greek and Hebrew does not determine meaning since the meaning is derived contextually.
2. An extended surface is not a stretched surface but merely an area that has been extended. God separated the waters; God did not stretched the waters.
3. The heavens spoken in the second day of creation is not the third heaven but the atmosphere. This IS what God created on the second day. The third heaven, God's abode, already existed.
Amo 9:6
It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven...
The half of the earth's created waters are still above the stretched out /expanse/firmament/heavens/sha-mayim.
Here is ALL of verse 6:
The One who builds His [b]upper chambers in the heavens
And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth,
He who calls for the waters of the sea
And pours them out on the face of the earth,
The Lord is His name.
1. Nothing in this verse about waters above the expanse.
2. The waters referred to here is rain which is absorbed from the sea. There is no water above the expanse.
3. The Hebrew word mah-al-aw' means literally a step, as in stairs. The Hebrew word shamayim means literally heaven, as in the area of the atmosphere where rain is gathered.
4.The creative activity of God is found in the verbs builds (habbôneh) and sets (yĕsādāh). A palace in the heavens whose foundation is on the earth speaks of a transcendent sovereignty over both earth and heaven. Both heaven and earth are his domain where he has sovereign authority. This is why escape from him is futile. The verses attributes to the Lord the control of rainfall. He has authority to call for the waters of the sea and the power to pour those waters out over the face of the land.
Gen 1:7
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Yep. Except that you are misinterpreting this verse. God formed an expanse to create a boundary, giving structure to the upper and lower waters. The expanse is the atmosphere that distinguishes the surface waters of the earth (i.e., the waters below) from the atmospheric waters or clouds (i.e., the waters above).
Psa 148:4
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
148 [a]Praise [b]the Lord!
Praise the Lord from the heavens;
Praise Him in the heights!
2 Praise Him, all His angels;
Praise Him, all His hosts!
3 Praise Him, sun and moon;
Praise Him, all stars of light!
4 Praise Him, [c]highest heavens,
And the waters that are above the heavens!
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord,
For He commanded and they were created.
6 He has also established them forever and ever;
He has made a decree which will not pass away.
This is a Psalm of praise. The whole of creation should praise the Lord. The highest of heavens here refers to the whole of the universe and the waters in verse 4 is most likely rained filled clouds. This is poetic language.
Heaven is "plural", so the mayim-שָׁמַיִם/waters, is plural, with the plural ending, as the heaven/sha- mayim-שָׁמַיִם is, "heavens". It is translated singular or plural, on the whim of the translator, but it is plural.
I don't doubt that is plural but is referring to the observable heavens not God's abode.
God is specific that the atmosphere is the "face/paniym -פָּנִים" of the heavens.
Not particularly. The word atmosphere does not appear in scripture and is derived contextually from the word for heaven(s).
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open/face/paniym h6440 firmament of heaven.
This verse is talking about the creation of birds and land-bound creatures. Both live in the open space between the land and the "heavens." Again, the meanings of the various instances of "heaven" are contextually derived.
God specifically states that He set the sun and moon in the expanse/firmament/stretched out heavens on day 4. He also set the stars/wandering stars in this instance, which are the planets, in the firmament of the heavens on day 4.
He did not set the sun and moon nor the stars called planets in the open/face/ atmosphere on day 4, where the birds fly that is silly to state it is so!
Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament/expanse of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Contextually this instance of heavens refers to what we call space, where the planets are located. again, colloquially we still refer to space as the heavens. The word is inherently anthropomorphic.
Adam was taken from the earth below and set in the stretched out heavens, where Eden is.
No, Adam was taken from the land were he was formed out of dust and taken to Eden which is NOT in the heavens.
The earth is the center of God's creation, and the heavens were stretched out from the earth on day 2 between the cut in two waters of this created globe.
No such teaching in scripture.
In God's stretched out firmament, in the third story/layer, is Mount Eden, and Paradise is in Mount Eden.
No such teaching in scripture.
That is the "Breadth of earth" that God asks Job if he can measure -for no, no man can.
That is the "breadth of earth" which the wicked, deceived by the let loose evil satans, try to ascend to, in the end of the millennium, where the City of God is, in the book of Revelation.
No such teaching in scripture.
That is the realm of earth's outstretched breadth that Nimrod & Co attempted to ascend to, to take over Paradise and sit above the angels, and which is why we speak many divided tongues confounded from our one mother [edenic] tongue, which is Hebrew.
No such teaching in scripture.
The word rapture is "To take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away"
God raptured a rib from the male/ish Adam and built a female/ishyah Adam. He took the rib from Adam and built a wife for him. HE removed the rib from one place, adn took it to another, and the male Ish then was "married" by having an ishyah.
God did not "rapture" a rib from Adam. You are attempting to fit a word to a meaning that is not inherent of the word. Here is what rapture means:
rapture
■ noun
1 a feeling of intense pleasure or joy.
2 (raptures) the expression of intense pleasure or enthusiasm.
3 (the Rapture) North American (according to some millenarian teaching) the transporting of believers to heaven at the second coming of Christ.
Soanes, C., & Stevenson, A. (2004). Concise Oxford English dictionary (11th ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press.
1rapture \ˈrap-chər\ noun
[Latin raptus] 1594
1 : an expression or manifestation of ecstasy or passion
2 a : a state or experience of being carried away by overwhelming emotion
b : a mystical experience in which the spirit is exalted to a knowledge of divine things
3 often capitalized : the final assumption of Christians into heaven during the end-time according to Christian theology synonym see ECSTASY rapturous \ˈrap-chə-rəs, ˈrap-shrəs\ adjective rapturously adverb rapturousness noun
Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Websters collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Dear Hentenza, the river that flowed out of Eden above, in the third heaven, and watered Paradise, in the third heaven above [Paul tells you that is where Paradise is] is an atmospheric river.
Atmospheric rivers carry more water than the Amazon, and they water the earth.
That river that came out of Eden above in the third heaven became four heads of four rivers on earth below. The Gishon; the Blue Nile; Euphrates, and the Tigress.
No such teaching in scripture.
The geo-centric creation is God's way of planting the heavens by human being sons of God for His glory to indwell, and His heavens serve the earth below, from which they were stretched out between the divided waters of, on day 2 of creation week.
God's creation is/was not geocentric but heliocentric. The universe is as God created it at the beginning, so the earth rotated around the sun back then just as it does now.
Just because something in the past did not happen exactly the way how its presented in Genesis, does not mean God lied (besides he did not exactly write Genesis, people did, and just because people are inspired by God, does not mean that inspiration means the views of the time have no influence on their writings, and that their writings needed to be completely historically/scientifically accurate about the past when writing and trying to teach something about God, sometimes the point/reasons for a story about God are not those 2 things)
You have to understand that the people who wrote Genesis did not have the knowledge we have (no modern astronomy, etc) about the world. Therefore in their minds, the world that was being created in Genesis is not the world we know of (Earth being the 3rd planet from the Sun in a solar system, earth being a sphere and is rotating in space, also revolving around the Sun, what stars actually are, etc).
I accept the Book of Enoch as Scripture [writing is the translation] meaning "sacred/holy" because Jesus did, and called it such, and He used it, preached from it, and oft quoted from it; and so did the Jews in Ethiopia of the first century who never threw it out and kept it -when they received the Gospel- in their Bibles [ Bible means collection of manuscripts, and considered "holy/sacred", in this case].
That is totally "in your face" to the Creator "false accusations" of making the entire Scriptures only man's POV.I agree which is why making case for geocentrism from scripture is absurd. The Ptolemic model was not available to the bible writers and their cosmology was primarily observational. Genesis or any other book of scripture is not teaching geocentrism.
That is totally "in your face" to the Creator "false accusations" of making the entire Scriptures only man's POV.<snip>
So in Genesis 1, we see a geo-centric creation,
and the waters cut in two, raised above the expanse/firmament -named two waters/sha-mayim- which was stretched out in stories/ascensions of higher heavens, with half the waters of creation raised above the stories/ascensions realms of the stretched out heavens.
The waters are there, above the heavens still, and from them the stars send floods, hail and ice -starwater- to make seasonal climates for the earth below.
The river that came out of Eden in Genesis is an atmospheric river, and it watered Paradise and became four heads of four rivers on earth below: those are the Euphrates, the Tigriss, the Gihon, and the blue Nile.
The heads of those rivers are still watered by the atmospheric river out of Eden.
38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
Stars are angels who hold the ice for hailstones, in the Word, which stars are God's strorehouses for blessings or curses for earth below:
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
In the geo-centic creation, the stars serve the earth -and the stars are angels, in the Word, each with a name and a course to run and a duty to do.
in the Geo-centric creation, even the lightnings have names, and serve the Creator.
In the Geo-centric creation, the stars are powers/forces/inteligent beings set over the earth to govern the seasons, the waters, the winds -and they hold the hailstones for battle and bring floods in battles to aid God's army: God calls them His "treasuries" -His storehouses for the hail and the blessings and the curses for earth.
Psa 135:7 He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.
Jos 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
Isa 30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
Eze 13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
The stars have their origin right here, on earth, from whence the heavens were stretched out, and when they fall, they fall right back to earth, from whence they have their primal origin, in the beginning:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The stars control the waters over the earth, and they are God's storehouses for the hailstones that He has reserved for the Day of Battle -hundred pound hailstones are reserved in the stars for that final day of battle, told of in Revelation -and the stars bring in the seasons and the winds that come for blessing or curses.
Jdg 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
Jdg 5:21 The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down strength.
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.
Psa 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Job 38 -God's POV:
No where in Scripture are we told there is a universe, but right in Genesis 1, we are told there were no heavens stretched out from the earth until day 2 of creation week, and no sun, moon, nor wandering stars/planets, til day 4. The stars that are the lights/powers/forces controlling the nature of the creation come with the calling into being of "light", however, and those forces control the weather on earth, the watering of the earth, the seasonal winds, the blessings of weather or the curses of weather, as the Creator directs them to do.
No where in Scripture are we told there is a universe, but right in Genesis 1, we are told there were no heavens stretched out from the earth until day 2 of creation week, and no sun, moon, nor wandering stars/planets, til day 4. The stars that are the lights/powers/forces controlling the nature of the creation come with the calling into being of "light", however, and those forces control the weather on earth, the watering of the earth, the seasonal winds, the blessings of weather or the curses of weather, as the Creator directs them to do.
Stars are angels/powers/forces/inteligent beings, who serve God and who obey Him, and who bless or curse the earth by the weather they control in the seasons of their rule.In the geo-centic creation, the stars serve the earth -and the stars are angels, in the Word, each with a name and a course to run and a duty to do.
in the Geo-centric creation, even the lightnings have names, and serve the Creator.
In the Geo-centric creation, the stars are powers/forces/inteligent beings set over the earth to govern the seasons, the waters, the winds -and they hold the hailstones for battle and bring floods in battles to aid God's army: God calls them His "treasuries" -His storehouses for the hail and the blessings and the curses for earth.
Psa 135:7 He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.
Jos 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
Isa 30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
Eze 13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
The stars have their origin right here, on earth, from whence the heavens were stretched out, and when they fall, they fall right back to earth, from whence they have their primal origin, in the beginning:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The stars control the waters over the earth, and they are God's storehouses for the hailstones that He has reserved for the Day of Battle -hundred pound hailstones are reserved in the stars for that final day of battle, told of in Revelation -and the stars bring in the seasons and the winds that come for blessing or curses.
Jdg 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
Jdg 5:21 The river of Kishon swept them away, that ancient river, the river Kishon. O my soul, thou hast trodden down strength.
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.
Psa 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Job 38 -God's POV:
Stars are angels/powers/forces/inteligent beings, who serve God and who obey Him, and who bless or curse the earth by the weather they control in the seasons of their rule.
Everything that is created, the earth and the heavens, and all that in them is, all began right here on this globe, when it was waters, with the Spirit brooding over the waters, in darkness.
There was no stretched out heavens, no stars of light, no sun, no moon, no planets/wandering stars of darkness, nothing but a globe of water -immense-, surrounded by powers -tremendous.
That was in the beginning as God tells us from His POV.
It was all right here on what came to be named the earth, and no where else.
There was nothing at all "out there" for it was all "right here" on day 1 of creation week.
Then God began His work of calling out of what He had created the light, and separating it from the darkness in a circling of this globe making one revolution around it in one evening and one morning to the next evening, equaling one/echad "Day"
Still there were no heavens and no earth named for they were not yet separated, and were of a piece.
Til day 2, when in Genesis we read the truth of the generations of the heavens and the earth in God's own wording, that He divided the waters of this globe into two, and expanded the powers which came to be named "heavens" out, in layers.
The face of these stretched out heavens is the place where the birds fly, He tells us in Genesis 1.
Half the waters of this creation He raised above the stretched out heavens, even above the third heaven, where Mount Eden, the Holy Mount of God, is, where Paradise is. That is what the Word of God tells us about His heavens stretched out; the same heavens which will be rolled up like a garment is rolled up, when He regenerates the elements of them at the end of this present creation, for the the New Beginning.
Please read my posts and reply to the Scriptures I post, and and do not falsely attack me with being in a cult. I am a born again in Christ, Bible believing, Holy Spirit baptized, tongues speaking/singing/praying, water baptized female, married to one husband for over 50 years, who is also a born again in Chris,t Bible believing, Holy Spirit baptized, tongues speaking/ singing/ praying, water baptized male.
It was an accusation of ignorance to my posts or to addressing the Scriptures.The scripture does not teach that the earth is the center of the universe. For many centuries people believed that Ptolemy and others were correct when they advocated an Earth-centered universe. They wanted to believe this theory because some thought, incorrectly, that this is what the Bible teaches.
I asked you if you were a Mormon because they also associate the stars with angels and intelligent beings. It was a question not an accusation.
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