The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

JacobLaw · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
This post is not attacking a person, but pointing out the facts of their belief system on this subject which is not Bible doctrine, and which they are very proud of, and and also which, BTW, they have never, ever, not even once, given Scripture for their position.

There
is
not
one
single
Scripture
used
to refute
the Scripture's
Geocentric
doctrine
from
the
beginning.

And that is the point of the thread.

And that is the truth, we are truly discussing the scriptures to be geocentric Christians only to be attack for not engaging in worldly sciences, that contradict the scriptures, we ask simply use scriptures to dispute our position.
Or please leave us alone, pleassssse.

yeshuasavedme · May 4, 2014

quote sculleywr; ... Geocentrism is an INTERPRETATION and not a plain teaching. Especially considering that the original language didn't use any rising or setting of the sun.

The following English is translated, not interpreted, from the original language. If sculleywr doubts it, he should bring forth the original language and translate it for us to show how -he believes- the translators were ignorant and uninformed and he is "properly" educated to translate correctly, in not only these but the many, many, many other Scripture passages in which YHWH speaks and the prophets write His exact words, that tell us us His sun rises in the east and sets in the west, both "YHWH" speaking in the OT and "Jesus" speaking in the NT.

YHWH says the sun rises in the east, so that fact is "Thus saith YHWH", and is His POV.

Num 2:1,3 And YHWH spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying...
And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

Psa 50:1 [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Psa 113:3 From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD'S name is to be praised.

Thus saith YHWH -in His language and from His POV:
Isa 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.

Thus saith YHWH -in His language and from His POV:
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

yeshuasavedme · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
The following English is translated, not interpreted, from the original language. If sculleywr doubts it, he should bring forth the original language and translate it for us to show how -he believes- the translators were ignorant and uninformed and he is "properly" educated to translate correctly, in not only these but the many, many, many other Scripture passages in which YHWH speaks and the prophets write His exact words, that tell us us His sun rises in the east and sets in the west, both "YHWH" speaking in the OT and "Jesus" speaking in the NT.

YHWH says the sun rises in the east, so that fact is "Thus saith YHWH", and is His POV.

Num 2:1,3 And YHWH spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying...
And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

Psa 50:1 [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Psa 113:3 From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD'S name is to be praised.

Thus saith YHWH -in His language and from His POV:
Isa 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.

Thus saith YHWH -in His language and from His POV:
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Num 2:3 And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

God's created dwelling place/tabernacle in the heavens is set in the sun, as He says in the Psalm in the original language and which is translated correctly in the ancient Greek Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate, and the Douay Rheims English, as I have posted before, and when the sun rose in the east, he looked down upon the heads of these men and His wrath was turned away from Israel.

Num 25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

For you see, from His dwelling place in the dazzling hot sun, He looks down upon the sons of Adam, and they are like grasshoppers in His sight:

Isaiah 18:4

For so the LORD said 1 unto me, I will take my rest,4 and I will consider 55 in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs,

Clear is dazzling
heat is hot
herbs is sun (light, luminary, etc)
So YHWH said, "I will take my rest and scan intently/look down/consider from my dwelling place (a fixture, habitation, abode), the dazzling hot sun."

Enoch describes the temple in heaven to where he was taken in the vision as crystal -below, above and beside- surrounded by flames of fire through which he had to go through to enter the first temple and the inner temple.

Enoch never says "I went into the sun", but the Psalmist states that "He set His tabernacle in the sun", as I previously pasted, and Isaiah reports YHWH as stating His dwelling place (the created temple in the created heaven) as being the "Dazzling hot sun".

Enoch states that the circumference of the sun and the circumference of the moon are equal. So for all the scientists' calling the circumference of the sun so great (826,000 miles or so), they miss the true science of the true core of the sun and what the purpose for it is and how it functions. Enoch states that the sun transfers light, so the sun and the moon are fixtures (like a chandelier, lamp, menorah: Genesis, day four) made, and set in the heaven to transfer the light made on day one. The sun transfers light in differing portions and gives a seventh of it to the moon, according to Enoch.

In Enoch, another passage describes that temple, and flames and crystal figure prominently in it:

[Chapter 71]
1 And it came to pass after this that my spirit was translated
And it ascended into the heavens:
And I saw the holy sons of God.
They were stepping on flames of fire:
Their garments were white [and their raiment],
And their faces shone like snow.
2 And I saw two streams of fire,
And the light of that fire shone like hyacinth,
And I fell on my face before the Lord of Spirits.
3 And the angel Michael [one of the archangels] seized me by my right hand,
And lifted me up and led me forth into all the secrets,
And he showed me all the secrets of righteousness.
4 And he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven,
And all the chambers of all the stars, and all the luminaries,
Whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones.
5 And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens,
And I saw there as it were a structure built of crystals,
And between those crystals tongues of living fire.
6 And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire,
And on its four sides were streams full of living fire,
And they girt that house.
7 And round about were Seraphin, Cherubic, and Ophannin:
And these are they who sleep not
And guard the throne of His glory.
8 And I saw angels who could not be counted,
A thousand thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand,
Encircling that house.
And Michael, and Raphael, and Gabriel, and Phanuel,
And the holy angels who are above the heavens,
Go in and out of that house.
9 And they came forth from that house,
And Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel,
And many holy angels without number.
10 And with them the Head of Days,
His head white and pure as wool,
And His raiment indescribable.

John has crystal and flames in his description, also.
King James Version: Revelation Chapter 4

5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal:

Enoch 78:
These are the two great luminaries: their circumference is like the circumference of the 4 heaven, and the size of the circumference of both is alike. In the circumference of the sun there are seven portions of light which are added to it more than to the moon, and in definite measures it is s transferred till the seventh portion of the sun is exhausted.

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
The following English is translated, not interpreted, from the original language. If sculleywr doubts it, he should bring forth the original language and translate it for us to show how -he believes- the translators were ignorant and uninformed and he is "properly" educated to translate correctly, in not only these but the many, many, many other Scripture passages in which YHWH speaks and the prophets write His exact words, that tell us us His sun rises in the east and sets in the west, both "YHWH" speaking in the OT and "Jesus" speaking in the NT.

YHWH says the sun rises in the east, so that fact is "Thus saith YHWH", and is His POV.

Num 2:1,3 And YHWH spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying...
And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

On the east Juda shall pitch his tents by the bands of his army: and the prince of his sons shall be Nahasson the son of Aminadab.

Psa 50:1 [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

A psalm of Asaph. Yahweh, the God of gods speaks; He summons the earth from east to west.

Psa 113:3 From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD'S name is to be praised.

Everywhere--from east to west--praise the name of the LORD.

or

From east to west the LORD's name is deserving of praise.

Thus saith YHWH -in His language and from His POV:
Isa 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.

"But I have stirred up a leader who will come from the north. I have called him by name from the east. I will give him victory over kings and princes. He will trample them as a potter treads on clay.

I have raised up one from the north, and he has come, one from the east who invokes My name. He will march over rulers as if they were mud, like a potter who treads the clay.

I have stirred up one out of the north and he advances, one from the eastern horizon who prays in my name. He steps on rulers as if they were clay, like a potter treading the clay.

"I have raised up someone from the north, and he has come. He will call on my name from the east. He will attack rulers as if they were mud, as if he were treading on clay like a potter.

Thus saith YHWH -in His language and from His POV:
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

In the west, people will respect the name of the LORD; in the east, they will glorify him. For he will come like a raging flood tide driven by the breath of the LORD.

They will fear the name of Yahweh in the west and His glory in the east; for He will come like a rushing stream driven by the wind of the LORD."

In the west, people respect the LORD's reputation; in the east they recognize his splendor. For he comes like a rushing stream driven on by wind sent from the LORD.

The people of the west will fear the name of the LORD. Those in the east will fear his glory. He will come like a rushing stream. The wind of the LORD pushes him.

You see, YSM, you are using phrases that are used interchangeably in translations as if they were impeccable. The rub is:

We have been in space and seen how the solar system operates.
You are using the Scripture as if it were some sort of holy science text book. We know it isn't, because by its estimation, my friend isn't really alive, since none of his blood is in him, and the life is in the blood. Never mind that he had no marrow left in his bones of his own. All of his blood is genetically someone elses, as it was manufactured in bone marrow that came from someone else. But the life of a person is much more complex than the liquid in our veins.

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
This post is not attacking a person, but pointing out the facts of their belief system on this subject which is not Bible doctrine, and which they are very proud of, and and also which, BTW, they have never, ever, not even once, given Scripture for their position.

There
is
not
one
single
Scripture
used
to refute
the Scripture's
Geocentric
doctrine
from
the
beginning.

And that is the point of the thread.

This post is not meant as an attack on any person, but is a testament to the reality:

geocentrism is a personal interpretation of Scripture. It is not a central dogma of the Christian faith, and it truly does not matter if you believe it. Therefore, since it is not salvific in any manner, it must stand up to scientific scrutiny. People launched satellites into the air to attempt orbit of a stationary earth. The following happened:

space Debris Falling Through Atmosphere - YouTube

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

JacobLaw said:
I don't think YSM is lying, and I understand why you believe what you believe which you are free to try to convince others of your beliefs.
We believe what we believe because what the bible tells us; you see it different but you might want to give us our liberty to express our biblical beliefs without being constantly harassing and being accused of lying.
So let's try to cut down on the rhetoric and be civil please.
I don't like the trouble making or crazy actions, so pleassssse stop it.

You believe it because you use the Bible in the same way the Muslims use the qu'ran: as if every single letter of a translation is necessary.

The problem: they are just translations. They aren't inerrant.

Geocentrism isn't necessary to salvation. Scripture is inerrant. The works of men called translations are error-filled.

Secondly, it is a lie. A lie is a lie. Not every person who tells a lie is a liar. They were likely lied to and bought the lie hook, line, and sinker. However, GPS satellites are programmed according to the laws of Relativity and accounting for the motion of our earth.

Gnarwhal · May 4, 2014

JacobLaw said:
Obviously that is what the discussion is about, there is many many discussion of different biblical beliefs; one believes they are right and the others are wrong; except in this case it like it seems to be we are not allowed to believe you are wrong, why?
I don't like how the threat of being reported for what I feel is true, while it is perfectly all right for other to purposely cause trouble and harassed Geocentric Christians as being unchristian for our beliefs because it insinuates that others many not believe the bible.
Isn't that what the apologetics of discussing biblical positions is all about, one thinks what they believe is true the other thinks believe is true, obviously both are not always going to end up agreeing, but to constantly accuses us of what you are doing is trouble making, so lets leave it that we disagree, is that OK?
Peace and May God Bless You.

Nobody is arguing that we can disagree. That's the essence of the forum, but there's a difference between recognizing a difference in interpretation of scripture, and the accusation that a holder of an opposing viewpoint flat-out rejects the bible. That crosses a line into the realm of rule violations here on CF.

By all means, you are welcome to believe a geocentric model of the cosmos, as we are welcome to believe a heliocentric one.

Nobody is going to report anybody as long as due respect is given in regards to our profession of faith. Meaning, if any of us are sporting a Christian faith icon, then our faith is not up for question. Outside of that, you're welcome to tell us we're wrong all you want, we know that's not a reportable offense so there's no need to feel threatened.

sculleywr said:
This post is not meant as an attack on any person, but is a testament to the reality:

geocentrism is a personal interpretation of Scripture. It is not a central dogma of the Christian faith, and it truly does not matter if you believe it. Therefore, since it is not salvific in any manner, it must stand up to scientific scrutiny. People launched satellites into the air to attempt orbit of a stationary earth. The following happened:

space Debris Falling Through Atmosphere - YouTube

Indeed, it's not salvific, dogmatic or doctrinal by any measure. Therefore it needn't be refuted with scripture. YSM has cleverly arranged her argument to depend exclusively on scripture rather than empirical evidence because she knows in the back of her mind that the latter would disprove her position and unravel her recherché worldview.

yeshuasavedme · May 4, 2014

sculleywr said:
On the east Juda shall pitch his tents..

You are not translating! You are very badly and biasedly paraphrasing and leaving out the original words to make a paraphrased version that is useless for the study of the Word.
You get an "F-", and nothing for effort, even

Just looking at the first one you propose shows that you have not a clue to understanding translation and you have messed with the Word of God, omitting the very necessary word that means the sunrise.

In Numbers 2:3, none of the translations remove the word that means sunrise, like you did, in that verse -so who could trust you to be an honest translator, or to even know what you are talking about when it comes to the Word of God and "original language"?

KJV And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

NKJV “On the east side, toward the rising of the sun, those of the standard of the forces with Judah shall camp according to their armies; and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be the leader of the children of Judah.”

NLT
NIV On the east, toward the sunrise, the divisions of the camp of Judah are to encamp under their standard. The leader of the people of Judah is Nahshon son of Amminadab.

ESV Those to camp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah by their companies, the chief of the people of Judah being Nahshon the son of Amminadab,

RVR60 Estos acamparán al oriente, al este: la bandera del campamento de Judá, por sus ejércitos; y el jefe de los hijos de Judá, Naasón hijo de Aminadab.

NASB “Now those who camp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah, by their armies, and the leader of the sons of Judah: Nahshon the son of Amminadab,

RSV Those to encamp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah by their companies, the leader of the people of Judah being Nahshon the son of Ammin'adab,

ASV And those that encamp on the east side toward the sunrising shall be they of the standard of the camp of Judah, according to their hosts: and the prince of the children of Judah shall be Nahshon the son of Amminadab.

YLT And those encamping eastward towards the sun-rising, are of the standard of the camp of Judah, by their hosts; and the prince of the sons of Judah is Nahshon, son of Amminadab;

DBY And for those encamping eastward toward the sun-rising there shall be the standard of the camp of Judah according to their hosts; and the prince of the sons of Judah shall be Nahshon the son of Amminadab;

WEB And on the east side towards the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

HNV Those who encamp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Yehudah, according to their divisions: and the prince of the children of Yehudah shall be Nachshon the son of `Amminadav.

VUL ad orientem Iudas figet tentoria per turmas exercitus sui eritque princeps filiorum eius Naasson filius Aminadab

WLC וְהַחֹנִים֙ קֵ֣דְמָה מִזְרָ֔חָה דֶּ֛גֶל מַחֲנֵ֥ה יְהוּדָ֖ה לְצִבְאֹתָ֑ם וְנָשִׂיא֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יְהוּדָ֔ה נַחְשֹׁ֖ון בֶּן־עַמִּינָדָֽב׃

LXX καὶ οἱ παρεμβάλλοντες πρῶτοι κατ᾽ ἀνατολὰς τάγμα παρεμβολῆς Ιουδα σὺν δυνάμει αὐτῶν καὶ ὁ ἄρχων τῶν υἱῶν Ιουδα Ναασσων υἱὸς Αμιναδαβ

yeshuasavedme · May 4, 2014

sculleywr said:
my friend isn't really alive, since none of his blood is in him, and the life is in the blood. .

You need some good study in the Word to be able to debate the Word, cause you do not even have understanding in the fact that the "life in the blood" is the soul, and the blood can be in the body and the life/blood/soul shed by murder, which does not even make a wound for the blood to flow out, but takes the "life/blood/soul" -and that is in the Word of God for him to see and understand who actually studies and learns.

When Abel was in the belly of the earth -in Sheol, and his body buried in the dirt," the voice of his blood/his soul cried out to YHWH for the avenging of his blood", in Genesis 4.

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
You need some good study in the Word to be able to debate the Word, cause you do not even have understanding in the fact that the "life in the blood" is the soul, and the blood can be in the body and the life/blood/soul shed by murder, which does not even make a wound for the blood to flow out, but takes the "life/blood/soul" -and that is in the Word of God for him to see and understand who actually studies and learns.

When Abel was in the belly of the earth -in Sheol, and his body buried in the dirt," the voice of his blood/his soul cried out to YHWH for the avenging of his blood", in Genesis 4.

YSM, I was applying the same reasoning that you use to make the earth orbit the sun in your interpretation.

If it isn't applicable in this sense, it isn't applicable in yours.

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
You are not translating! You are very badly and biasedly paraphrasing and leaving out the original words to make a paraphrased version that is useless for the study of the Word.
You get an "F-", and nothing for effort, even

Just looking at the first one you propose shows that you have not a clue to understanding translation and you have messed with the Word of God, omitting the very necessary word that means the sunrise.

In Numbers 2:3, none of the translations remove the word that means sunrise, like you did, in that verse -so who could trust you to be an honest translator, or to even know what you are talking about when it comes to the Word of God and "original language"?

KJV And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

NKJV On the east side, toward the rising of the sun, those of the standard of the forces with Judah shall camp according to their armies; and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be the leader of the children of Judah.

NLT
NIV On the east, toward the sunrise, the divisions of the camp of Judah are to encamp under their standard. The leader of the people of Judah is Nahshon son of Amminadab.

ESV Those to camp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah by their companies, the chief of the people of Judah being Nahshon the son of Amminadab,

RVR60 Estos acamparán al oriente, al este: la bandera del campamento de Judá, por sus ejércitos; y el jefe de los hijos de Judá, Naasón hijo de Aminadab.

NASB Now those who camp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah, by their armies, and the leader of the sons of Judah: Nahshon the son of Amminadab,

RSV Those to encamp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah by their companies, the leader of the people of Judah being Nahshon the son of Ammin'adab,

ASV And those that encamp on the east side toward the sunrising shall be they of the standard of the camp of Judah, according to their hosts: and the prince of the children of Judah shall be Nahshon the son of Amminadab.

YLT And those encamping eastward towards the sun-rising, are of the standard of the camp of Judah, by their hosts; and the prince of the sons of Judah is Nahshon, son of Amminadab;

DBY And for those encamping eastward toward the sun-rising there shall be the standard of the camp of Judah according to their hosts; and the prince of the sons of Judah shall be Nahshon the son of Amminadab;

WEB And on the east side towards the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah.

HNV Those who encamp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Yehudah, according to their divisions: and the prince of the children of Yehudah shall be Nachshon the son of `Amminadav.

VUL ad orientem Iudas figet tentoria per turmas exercitus sui eritque princeps filiorum eius Naasson filius Aminadab

WLC וְהַחֹנִים֙ קֵ֣דְמָה מִזְרָ֔חָה דֶּ֛גֶל מַחֲנֵ֥ה יְהוּדָ֖ה לְצִבְאֹתָ֑ם וְנָשִׂיא֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יְהוּדָ֔ה נַחְשֹׁ֖ון בֶּן־עַמִּינָדָֽב׃

LXX καὶ οἱ παρεμβάλλοντες πρῶτοι κατ᾽ ἀνατολὰς τάγμα παρεμβολῆς Ιουδα σὺν δυνάμει αὐτῶν καὶ ὁ ἄρχων τῶν υἱῶν Ιουδα Ναασσων υἱὸς Αμιναδαβ

Actually, YSM, each and every one of those things I quoted is from various respected Translations, including the Douay Rheims. That particular quote is directly from the Douay Rheims.

yeshuasavedme · May 4, 2014

sculleywr said:
Actually, YSM, each and every one of those things I quoted is from various respected Translations, including the Douay Rheims. That particular quote is directly from the Douay Rheims.

You did not bring forth your own translation nor did you put forth the original language to translate it.
The word that means the rising of the sun was left completely out by you....so I guess you did not even go to the original at all, then, and your argument is a false argument that the original language does not say the rising of the sun in those passages I quoted.
you not only get an "F-", but you get demoted for plagiarizing and calling it your own translation.

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
You did not bring forth your own translation nor did you put forth the original language to translate it.
The word that means the rising of the sun was left completely out by you....so I guess you did not even go to the original at all, then, and your argument is a false argument that the original language does not say the rising of the sun in those passages I quoted.
you not only get an "F-", but you get demoted for plagiarizing and calling it your own translation.

I am not a translator from Koine Greek. I also did not say it was my own translation. In fact, had you, I don't know, read the REST of what I wrote, you would have noticed that I posted SEVERAL alternate translations.

What I do know is that the Church you so highly esteem is in constant dialogue with the Eastern Orthodox Church, to the point that their reunion is one of the possible topics for the Pan-Orthodox Council occurring this year. I also happen to know that they are NOT geocentric.

What I also know is that geocentrism is FALSE.

Because I happen to be a scientist, and study this little thing called the real world, rather than trying to fashion the world according to my personal interpretation of Scripture, I accept heliocentrism because it is true and observable.

Because I happen to be logical, the existence of MANY translations who use simple East and West as translations of Scripture tells me that there are more than one way to translate from the Greek.

Because I happen to think that esoteric interpretations are honestly the devil's playtoy, being the basis of such amazing teachings like Gnosticism, I reject them.

yeshuasavedme · May 4, 2014

Scripture is true from the beginning, and the entire universe rotates once a day around the earth, just as the Genesis record shows.

The video link I posted is a good video, but the link was put up by someone I need to check into the belief system of, before linking it again....

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
Scripture is true from the beginning, and the entire universe rotates once a day around the earth, just as the Genesis record shows.

How do we know the Earth doesn't move? - YouTube

Yet another link from an untrusted and anonymous source that isn't true.

yeshuasavedme · May 4, 2014

sculleywr said:
Yet another link from an untrusted and anonymous source that isn't true.

Actually, the video is short and true.
I deleted the link to it because I discovered the site is run by a Christadelphian, but the video is a good short summary..
Malcolm Bowden, a Reformed Christian has lots of geo-centric teaching from the Word that is good, but I do not hold to his doctrines on a good many things, but at least he is Trinitarian, and Robert Sungenis is RC, and I do not hold to RC doctrines, but at least they are Trinitarian, and his videos and Bowdon's video's on Geocentrism are excellent.

I also link to the guys of the Thunderbolts Project and the Electric Universe theory, and they are not Bible doctrine folks at all, but I link because the Electric Universe is what the Word of God teaches us, even though those scientists do not know it...yet they confirm it in their research, though they are not religious.

But I use the Scripture as my foundation for my belief, and I do not deny the Scriptures and I study them for what they say, not for what men say or what I was taught by men to think was true before God opened my eyes to His Word being true "from the beginning", and "every man a liar", as He says...

pyramid33 · May 4, 2014

The video's have totally lost my interest, considering they are 40 minutes long and the other 1 hour and 44 minutes long.

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
Actually, the video is short and true.
I deleted the link to it because I discovered the site is run by a Christadelphian, but the video is a good short summary..
Malcolm Bowden, a Reformed Christian has lots of geo-centric teaching from the Word that is good, but I do not hold to his doctrines on a good many things, but at least he is Trinitarian, and Robert Sungenis is RC, and I do not hold to RC doctrines, but at least they are Trinitarian, and his videos and Bowdon's video's on Geocentrism are excellent.

I also link to the guys of the Thunderbolts Project and the Electric Universe theory, and they are not Bible doctrine folks at all, but I link because the Electric Universe is what the Word of God teaches us, even though those scientists do not know it...yet they confirm it in their research, though they are not religious.

But I use the Scripture as my foundation for my belief, and I do not deny the Scriptures and I study them for what they say, not for what men say or what I was taught by men to think was true before God opened my eyes to His Word being true "from the beginning", and "every man a liar", as He says...

Just a note: I'm Orthodox, belonging to the oldest worldwide congregation on the planet. As far as I know, NO Orthodox teaching has ever relied on geocentrism.

You cannot take a theological treatise and make it into a science text. That's disrespectful to the author of the writing.

sculleywr · May 4, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
Actually, the video is short and true.
I deleted the link to it because I discovered the site is run by a Christadelphian, but the video is a good short summary..
Malcolm Bowden, a Reformed Christian has lots of geo-centric teaching from the Word that is good, but I do not hold to his doctrines on a good many things, but at least he is Trinitarian, and Robert Sungenis is RC, and I do not hold to RC doctrines, but at least they are Trinitarian, and his videos and Bowdon's video's on Geocentrism are excellent.

I also link to the guys of the Thunderbolts Project and the Electric Universe theory, and they are not Bible doctrine folks at all, but I link because the Electric Universe is what the Word of God teaches us, even though those scientists do not know it...yet they confirm it in their research, though they are not religious.

But I use the Scripture as my foundation for my belief, and I do not deny the Scriptures and I study them for what they say, not for what men say or what I was taught by men to think was true before God opened my eyes to His Word being true "from the beginning", and "every man a liar", as He says...

As to the truth of the video, it isn't true because every astronaut who has ever been to space has seen the earth move and rotate.

JacobLaw · May 4, 2014

Cogent said:
Nobody is arguing that we can disagree. That's the essence of the forum, but there's a difference between recognizing a difference in interpretation of scripture, and the accusation that a holder of an opposing viewpoint flat-out rejects the bible. That crosses a line into the realm of rule violations here on CF.

By all means, you are welcome to believe a geocentric model of the cosmos, as we are welcome to believe a heliocentric one.

Nobody is going to report anybody as long as due respect is given in regards to our profession of faith. Meaning, if any of us are sporting a Christian faith icon, then our faith is not up for question. Outside of that, you're welcome to tell us we're wrong all you want, we know that's not a reportable offense so there's no need to feel threatened.

Indeed, it's not salvific, dogmatic or doctrinal by any measure. Therefore it needn't be refuted with scripture. YSM has cleverly arranged her argument to depend exclusively on scripture rather than empirical evidence because she knows in the back of her mind that the latter would disprove her position and unravel her recherché worldview.

Well you know I disagree with much of what you say; but I am glad you have tone it down, thank you.

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