The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

[sculleywr]

Any links I post which support the Bible on geo-centrism or the Electric Universe and others are linked only for the Biblical views they actually do prove, and discussion as to the Biblical POV. is my only reason for posting them. I do not agree with all the vies of all of them whether they are Christians or atheists, but the specific matters at hand that do show the Scriptures can be verified as Truth from the beginning in ordinary everyday observations that have been made... Whether I link is to sites like "The Electric Universe" with Wallace Thornhill, or "Galileo was Wrong, The Church was Right" by Sungenis, or NASA on the "Atmospheric Rivers" [the discovery of atmospheric prove the river in Genesis was out of heaven, in that a river went out of Eden -which is in the third heaven- and watered Paradise and became four heads of four rivers on earth below]; or NASA on "Spaceweather -weather from space" [also proving that Genesis is correct in that all weather comes from space and the stars bring in the seasons and control rains, hail, etc...as the sun controls the heat, etc...], the discussion at hand is the reason I link. The Bible, OTOH, speaks for itself, and is true from the beginning.

interpretation is not inerrant.

You are a human. Your interpreting skills are the same interpreting skills of every errant and sinful human being on earth.

When I compare two opposing interpretations about something I can test by taking a look at something with y eyes, I trust my eyes, not you.

 

[sculleywr]

hey, Im more inclined to believe you and the bible.. We are taught according to man how the solar system works when we are children.. I personally think the Sun revolving around the earth makes sense.. But the Starts move too then, because at night, the heavens also rotate.. with me??

It makes sense, somehow, that a massive star the size of a million earth powered by billions of thermonuclear explosions a second is somehow orbiting the earth

 

[Skybringr]

The same mathematical equation that warrants satellites orbiting the Earth is the exact equation which dictates Earth's orbit around the Sun.

It's called E=mc²

Thank Einstein. True genius. One does not simply beat pure genius.

 

[7sForDays]

It makes sense, somehow, that a massive star the size of a million earth powered by billions of thermonuclear explosions a second is somehow orbiting the earth

If quantum physics has taught me anything, its that we dont have a clue about how our reality works.

Im far less concerned with the sun orbiting the earth due to clashes in physics.



Which is consistent with this verse.

Isa_55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[sculleywr]

Well, because I dont have the means to verify the physical evidence that refutes the Bible. Lets be honest, you are part of the haves in this world, or the have nots. Im a have not, by choice, but it means Im also not privy to the means to verify scientific claims that can only be verified by people that make the claims. Ive never been to space to visually see the solar system, or watch the earth and how it relates to the sun. I didnt take the pictures of globular clusters that are computer "enhanced". I have to take a philisophical stance of subjectivity regarding those things because I cant prove to myself they are true, not with the same level objectivity God has shown me, and thats what its going to take. I just dont see science for what I used to. And Im a biologist.

I have proof. It's called eyeballs. And a giant telescope that costs more than the average house that can look at the sun and see it isn't a giant electric lamp.

Rule 1 of science: experiment.
Rule 2 of science: observe

Hundreds of people have been in space. All of them reported that the earth moved beneath them.

The math of the Apollo missions, mathematical models available to everyone online, assumes that the earth moves.

The Voyager Probes have taken images of the planets orbiting the sun.

Probes launched in 2006 to take a panoramic picture of the sun are in orbit around the sun following the orbit of the earth, one ahead of the earth, the other behind. This is evidence of an orbiting earth.

Hundreds of satellites in orbit around earth depend on the rotation of the earth because if they assumed a stationary earth, they would fall to the earth in fiery balls of death.

 

[7sForDays]

The same mathematical equation that warrants satellites orbiting the Earth is the exact equation which dictates Earth's orbit around the Sun.

It's called E=mc²

Thank Einstein. True genius. One does not simply beat pure genius.

Relativity is subjective tho.

God is objective.


There is a clash in truths here.

 

[Skybringr]

Relativity is subjective tho.

God is objective.


There is a clash in truths here.

I see geocentrism and relativity as being synonymous.

I stated, in an earlier post, that one cannot deduce whether it's energy or the lack of energy that invokes gravity.

It involves thinking outside the box, but once one sees it, it is a magnificent observation. I take pride in having deduced that, honestly

 

[sculleywr]

If quantum physics has taught me anything, its that we dont have a clue about how our reality works. Im far less concerned with the sun orbiting the earth due to clashes in physics. Which is consistent with this verse. Isa_55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Umm, you're talking about a fact that never once has been violated. Massive objects always have pull

Yes, there are things we don't understand. But we do understand the exact model of the earth and it's relation to the sun. I have SEEN the sun.

Massive objects always control the system they are in as relates to gravity. The sun is in gravitational control of the earth.

Yes, quantum physics is impossible to predict. But quantum physics always deals with atomic particles. There isn't much to question with large objects and how they relate. The sun is powered by fusion reactions that have been proven multiple times as completely possible to the point that we are currently constructing a fusion based power plant.

 

[sculleywr]

Relativity is subjective tho. God is objective. There is a clash in truths here.

There is only perceived clash. A parent tells a kid the following:

"The tooth fairy will come after you go to sleep"

Does that mean the parent actually believes in a tooth fairy. Actually, the tooth fairy is just the parent bringing money to their kid. Their kid soon learns that the real tooth fairy is mommy and daddy. The parents were talking to their kids in ways they understood.

Likewise, God speaks to men who don't know the sun isn't actually rising through that lens. It is not a lie. It is condescension. It is not surprising since God condescended to become man. Why, therefore, would it be surprising to see Him condescend to speak in man's terms for daybreak and nightfall

 

[7sForDays]

There is only perceived clash. A parent tells a kid the following:

"The tooth fairy will come after you go to sleep"

Does that mean the parent actually believes in a tooth fairy. Actually, the tooth fairy is just the parent bringing money to their kid. Their kid soon learns that the real tooth fairy is mommy and daddy. The parents were talking to their kids in ways they understood.

Likewise, God speaks to men who don't know the sun isn't actually rising through that lens. It is not a lie. It is condescension. It is not surprising since God condescended to become man. Why, therefore, would it be surprising to see Him condescend to speak in man's terms for daybreak and nightfall

Im not sure I follow.

Einstein was brilliant, but he was a Jew, blind to Christ, who didnt know the one truth he was looking for through secular venues.

Some of Einsteins philosophy was very profound, but lacked the spiritual connection to truth.

For example, he said "The greatest thing in the world is intuition".

Now, Im not sure if he realizes it or not, but all knowledge comes from outside this world.

We are sensory preceptors for spirits, and hopefully the Holy Spirit, God willing.

What I fail to see in Einstein, especially through his home life, was any real truth.

I see a man depraved of true logic, which comes from God. His work set the precedent for disproving God, along with creating things like the atom bomb.


He contributed to technology that is going to be implemented in the future, possibly affecting you and your family, and they didnt make all those bombs not to use them.

 

[Skybringr]

Physicists are so good with math, it's ridiculous.

There is a paradox that makes no logical sense at all, which scientists actually solved through math.
And seriously, this is a very ridiculous paradox- it will drive you a little bit crazy.



A contestant is given three doors to choose from on a show. One of them has a prize, and he has to guess the right one.

He decides to open door 1.

The host then asks the contestant if he's sure, and opens up door number 3 which does not have the prize.

At this point, the contestant has a 50/50 chance- either choose door number 1 or 2.

..right?

Well, he actually has double the chance of winning if he chooses the other door, which he hadn't gone with before.



As logically incoherent as that is, it is actually the truth. It took PhD physicists from all around the world to solve this paradox.

 

[7sForDays]

Physicists are so good with math, it's ridiculous.

There is a paradox that makes no logical sense at all, which scientists actually solved through math.
And seriously, this is a very ridiculous paradox- it will drive you a little bit crazy.



A contestant is given three doors to choose from on a show. One of them has a prize, and he has to guess the right one.

He decides to open door 1.

The host then asks the contestant if he's sure, and opens up door number 3 which does not have the prize.

At this point, the contestant has a 50/50 chance- either choose door number 1 or 2.

..right?

Well, he actually has double the chance of winning if he chooses the other door, which he hadn't gone with before.



As logically incoherent as that is, it is actually the truth. It took PhD physicists from all around the world to solve this paradox.

He only got one choice, right?

 

[Skybringr]

He only got one choice, right?

Yes.

It's a real wake up call to how we view the universe.

 

[7sForDays]

Yes.

It's a real wake up call to how we view the universe.

The two slit test does that.

At matters most fundamental state, it becomes chaos.

Quarks for example can defy reality, appearing in and out of existence.



That kind of stuff is literally objectively impossible to understand from this side of reality.

We can peek through the curtain, but it wont make sense from here, we dont possess the cognitive prowess to comprehend something like that.

 

[Skybringr]

The two slit test does that.

At matters most fundamental state, it becomes chaos.

Quarks for example can defy reality, appearing in and out of existence.



That kind of stuff is literally objectively impossible to understand from this side of reality.

We can peek through the curtain, but it wont make sense from here, we dont possess the cognitive prowess to comprehend something like that.

Electrons can be at two different places at the same time, they can also jump instantaneously from one location to another

That alone is enough to defy conventional reason at it's very core.

 

[7sForDays]

Electrons can be at two different places at the same time

That alone is enough to defy conventional reason at it's very core.

my studies are in photosynthesis directly.

We can observe the photon in two places at once before its combined with Co2 in a quantum exchange not viewable in this reality into a complex sugar that provides the plant with energy to facilitate transpiration.

Plants alone prove God is real.

 

[sculleywr]

Im not sure I follow.

Einstein was brilliant, but he was a Jew, blind to Christ, who didnt know the one truth he was looking for through secular venues.

Some of Einsteins philosophy was very profound, but lacked the spiritual connection to truth.

For example, he said "The greatest thing in the world is intuition".

Now, Im not sure if he realizes it or not, but all knowledge comes from outside this world.

We are sensory preceptors for spirits, and hopefully the Holy Spirit, God willing.

What I fail to see in Einstein, especially through his home life, was any real truth.

I see a man depraved of true logic, which comes from God. His work set the precedent for disproving God, along with creating things like the atom bomb.


He contributed to technology that is going to be implemented in the future, possibly affecting you and your family, and they didnt make all those bombs not to use them.

Actually, General and Special Relativity are the reason you can use a computer right now.

Here is the problem: Einstein found an amazing function of the natural universe: light is a particle, and is effected by gravity.

England, not willing to accept the theory of a German Jew, dispatched Eddington to study all of Einstein's work and develop an experiment to disprove the Theory of Relativity. Eddington actually developed the first experiment to test this theory:

If light is effected by gravity, then the sun, which is the most massive object in the solar system, would have an effect on the path of light from the stars that passed it. Essentially, when the sun passes between earth and the stars, they would appear to be in a different location. Unfortunately, it being before man had gone to space, there was no way to test the theory, except when the next full solar eclipse occurred. So, without ado, Eddington took a telescopic camera with him to a mountain on the eve of the next full eclipse. As the eclipse happened, he took 5 pictures of the sun as it was covered by the moon. These pictures were laid out next to pictures of those same constellations, and then overlaid.

The result of the experiment was the discovery that yes, the light from the stars was bent at a severe enough angle that the stars appeared to be in a different place than they would normally be.

This fit exactly with Einstein's primary prediction as relates to the Theory of Relativity.

Besides that, the GPS satellites were originally programmed to run without accounting for the difference in the flow of time in orbit of the earth, the second prediction of the Theory of Relativity. Within two days, they were so far off that they weren't even in the same state and time zone with their readings. After recalibrating and adjusting for the Theories of Relativity, they now work to within an accuracy of 20 feet.

GPS and Relativity

Here's the problem with YSM's claims: He is confuting scientific fact and doctrinal declaration. In his attempt to defend the inerrancy of Scripture, he overemphasizes literal accuracy such that turns of phrase are interpreted literally. However, when we apply the same overemphasis on phrases that describe Christ as a 7-eyed, 7-horned goat, he does a complete turnaround, claiming that Scripture is not all literal.

He also makes extrascriptural claims about a "electric universe", confusing light, which is made of photons, with electricity, which is made up of electrons.

Now, I assist in teaching Biology as I major in it at my school. I can comfortably discuss the functions of gravity and the apparent paradoxes presented by black holes (the amount of gravity indicates a nearly infinite mass, shoved in an area the size of a Quark)

What did I do now???

This world is infinitely complex. It is filled with amazing things. As amazing as Golgi Bodies are in the cells of living organisms, why should we limit God to making the universe small enough to orbit this tiny little dust mote suspended in a sunbeam?
​

 

[Skybringr]

Don't be humble- Einstein went straight to the literal address of 'Middle of Nowhere, Earth' to prove his theory.
That man had *drive*, because he knew he was right. He conquered the field of physics.

 

[7sForDays]

Actually, General and Special Relativity are the reason you can use a computer right now.

Here is the problem: Einstein found an amazing function of the natural universe: light is a particle, and is effected by gravity.

England, not willing to accept the theory of a German Jew, dispatched Eddington to study all of Einstein's work and develop an experiment to disprove the Theory of Relativity. Eddington actually developed the first experiment to test this theory:

If light is effected by gravity, then the sun, which is the most massive object in the solar system, would have an effect on the path of light from the stars that passed it. Essentially, when the sun passes between earth and the stars, they would appear to be in a different location. Unfortunately, it being before man had gone to space, there was no way to test the theory, except when the next full solar eclipse occurred. So, without ado, Eddington took a telescopic camera with him to a mountain on the eve of the next full eclipse. As the eclipse happened, he took 5 pictures of the sun as it was covered by the moon. These pictures were laid out next to pictures of those same constellations, and then overlaid.

The result of the experiment was the discovery that yes, the light from the stars was bent at a severe enough angle that the stars appeared to be in a different place than they would normally be.

This fit exactly with Einstein's primary prediction as relates to the Theory of Relativity.

Besides that, the GPS satellites were originally programmed to run without accounting for the difference in the flow of time in orbit of the earth, the second prediction of the Theory of Relativity. Within two days, they were so far off that they weren't even in the same state and time zone with their readings. After recalibrating and adjusting for the Theories of Relativity, they now work to within an accuracy of 20 feet.

GPS and Relativity

Here's the problem with YSM's claims: He is confuting scientific fact and doctrinal declaration. In his attempt to defend the inerrancy of Scripture, he overemphasizes literal accuracy such that turns of phrase are interpreted literally. However, when we apply the same overemphasis on phrases that describe Christ as a 7-eyed, 7-horned goat, he does a complete turnaround, claiming that Scripture is not all literal.

He also makes extrascriptural claims about a "electric universe", confusing light, which is made of photons, with electricity, which is made up of electrons.

Now, I assist in teaching Biology as I major in it at my school. I can comfortably discuss the functions of gravity and the apparent paradoxes presented by black holes (the amount of gravity indicates a nearly infinite mass, shoved in an area the size of a Quark)

What did I do now???

This world is infinitely complex. It is filled with amazing things. As amazing as Golgi Bodies are in the cells of living organisms, why should we limit God to making the universe small enough to orbit this tiny little dust mote suspended in a sunbeam?
​

I have to say, you make a compelling argument, lol.

At the end of the day, its our imaginations that take us to those places of great insights, but with all this technology, and advancements in how we process data, we have also brought so much other negative stuff into play to balance it out.

At the end of the day, the Garden of Eden might have just been the perfect place to live for eternity.

Remember, Adam and Eve were immortal before the fall.


This is all for nought my friend, everything man has achieved, its all for nothing when it all comes to a close.

Perhaps not entirely for nothing, you could say it was always meant to be part of the process.

Either way, Ive moved on far from existentialism in my day. with that, Im caring less about the material world.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Well, because I dont have the means to verify the physical evidence that refutes the Bible.

Lets be honest, you are part of the haves in this world, or the have nots.


Im a have not, by choice, but it means Im also not privy to the means to verify scientific claims that can only be verified by people that make the claims.

Ive never been to space to visually see the solar system, or watch the earth and how it relates to the sun.

I didnt take the pictures of globular clusters that are computer "enhanced".



I have to take a philisophical stance of subjectivity regarding those things because I cant prove to myself they are true, not with the same level objectivity God has shown me, and thats what its going to take.
....

I go with the Scriptures, and not with men who always change their mind and who give us their "proofs" based on their own desires to prove God a liar.

Looking into the history of those whose words/philosophies are trusted over God's clear word for the denial of the Scripture revealed geo-centric creation, one finds they were mostly all atheists [in modern times] or pagans. The oldest back heliocentric promoters were pagan sun worshipers.
Even Kepler said: The sun is God the father..."!!!

• The sun, according to Kepler, is God the Father, the sphere of the fixed stars is God the Son, the intervening ethereal medium, through which the power of the sun is communicated to impel the planets around their orbits, is the Holy Ghost.
  • Edwin Arthur Burtt, The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Physical Science (1925)

The Scripture deniers who invent and invented elaborate schemes to deny the truth of the Word from the beginning are showcased in Romans 1. Everyone who believes their lies makes God a liar [even though many are deceived like Eve was, they are still taking the "Liar in Chief's part"] , for, yes indeed. God said: "the created as a globe of water, earth ['pregnant' with all the elements for forming the whole creation out of that water] is the starting point for the stretched out heavens which were not stretched out from this globe of water until day 2 of creation week, and stretched out between the divided in two waters of creation.

Romans 1: 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.