The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

sculleywr said:
Funny. I looked at it through those special lenses. Been there done that. Yep, that's the sun, as I can tell through first hand eyewitness

Don't tell me what I have and haven't seen. I know what I've seen

Again, you have not read what was said and went off as if it was not said....I do not think you read the posts at all, but just take a word and go off....
So what you see is not the actual body of the sun.
And the sun is electric, as the stars are.

But what did God say about His sun?
He said it is a menorah/candlestick, a light holder and a light governor, but it does not manufacture the light and gets it from outside itself to refract out to the entire creation.
The sun governs the light brought into being on day 1, in the electric universe.

The sun is also the place where God set His created temple, as He says in the Word.

When Enoch went into that temple, he said it was cold as ice and hot as fire, and there were no delights of life therein.

Enoch said it was made of tessellated crystal, which is cut diamonds, and pillars of fire, which are angels of power.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

SG9 said:
Hi sister,

I myself am sensitive to this particular thought of this parallel and what Christ is represented by so I'd like to comment in particular to the underlined in the quote.

First-off, if Christ be symbolized by the Sun then, He cannot be the Light Bearer, alone, and without the Glory of the Father that gives the Sun (in metaphor)...

What people are missing is the fact that the created sun on day 4 types the body of flesh which Christ/God the Word, was to come in, and is come in.
So the sun types the body created to be the Kinsman/Redeemer flesh and Foundation Stone laid for the second human being temple, for the Glory of the unseen Father to indwell: Adam lost that position, and the Kinsman/Redeemer is the Firstborn son of God of the human being kind, since the incarnation.

YHWH, in the person of God the Word, put on that prepared flesh like a garment, as Isaiah 59 states, and that flesh was prepared for Him to put on in the womb of the virgin, in the fourth millennial day.

The sun is a parable of that and of the Glory of the Father, who is Light and who can only be seen in the face of the Son, since the incarnation.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

sculleywr said:
And a reading of the tanakh shows a heliocentric understanding of the Torah in the Jews.

Please do, by all means, prove your claim, by Scripture, itself. I have not seen you using Scripture at all, and it will be at least assuring to see you do actually come at this from a point of view you get from the Scriptures, and not from fallible men, whose minds are always changing as their fables prove not valid when tests are run -which they then deny and go on as if they did not get the results proving their fables false.

I will be very much waiting to see you use Scripture to prove your position of a heliocentric universe.
Meantime, I will use the Scriptures that prove a geo-centric universe, from the beginning....

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

mmksparbud said:
Act 7:6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.

Act 7:17 But when the time of the promise drew nigh, which God had sworn to Abraham, the people grew and multiplied in Egypt,

I can find no verse where Paul says from the promise to the land was 430 years. Acts 7:6 says "they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years."

Which sounds like Paul is saying they were enslaved for 400 years.

.

Be advised that though Stephen, the first Martyr of the Church, said those words as is faithfully and historically recorded by Luke, Stephen did not get that info from the true history of the Torah, but from Jewish oral histories compiled in the years of exile when the LORD covered their seers and hid their prophets; because they missed the Message of Torah, God shut it, and blinded their eyes, until the Light should come.... -and so they made up stories.

Isaiah 29:

9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

Jesus came to be the LIGHT, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentiles, but He did not begin to rebuke them for blindness and not knowing and for the fables they believed -except the Sadducees- when He walked among them...
He began to teach them afterwards -like Peter, with the sheet let down filled with the unclean things [which typed the Gentiles], and that was when Jesus taught Peter that "Jubilees" was not truth, but error, compiled in the Diaspora when the books/Message of Torah and the prophets were hid, and invented as fables to make the Law the "Be All-End All"...
and Paul said in 1 Cor:2

2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

And verse 7 is straight out of Enoch's revelation about the Son of Man in heaven, hidden in God before the ages, who was God, with God, and who was to come and is the Wisdom of God

The literal Greek rendering of that verse in English is -they then teach them made perfect by being born of the Spirit, " in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:"
7 But we speak/preach/teach wisdom, God in mystery hidden, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

So I said that to say that Stephen's speech is historically accurately recorded, but is not true history as to the Torah record, which is indeed; "Thus saith YHWH".
Paul knew the Torah, and said "from the promise -Genesis 15- to the Law -at Sinai- was 430 years.

That is the Torah record as to the time line.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

sculleywr said:
...

...

...
And really, boiling God down to being small enough to fit inside the sun? That sounds like Ancient Greek mythology to me. Is the sun pulled by a chariot across the sky, too?

You really do have a bit of mix-up and lack of the Word's doctrines in this....but:
God the Word sits on a created throne in His created heavens in a created temple which He declares He set in the created sun..Isaiah 6, Revelation 4: Moses made a copy of it, as oracles, typing its furnishings, and the clothing the heavenly priesthood wear in heaven [typing the New Man body, as Leviticus 8 oracles].

Before the Greeks ever came to power and glory through Alexander and conquered pagan nations from whom they adopted the myths of the many false gods and goddesses, the torah was long written and the glory of Solomon's kingdom had been destroyed for centuries; and written in the Torah, God declared that "in the sun hath He set His tabernacle"...

Rev 9:
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Isaiah 6:
6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

The Complete Works of Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, War of the Jews, Flavius Josephus Against Apion

SG9 · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
What people are missing is the fact that the created sun on day 4 types the body of flesh which Christ/God the Word, was to come in, and is come in.
So the sun types the body created to be the Kinsman/Redeemer flesh and Foundation Stone laid for the second human being temple, for the Glory of the unseen Father to indwell: Adam lost that position, and the Kinsman/Redeemer is the Firstborn son of God of the human being kind, since the incarnation.

YHWH, in the person of God the Word, put on that prepared flesh like a garment, as Isaiah 59 states, and that flesh was prepared for Him to put on in the womb of the virgin, in the fourth millennial day.

The sun is a parable of that and of the Glory of the Father, who is Light and who can only be seen in the face of the Son, since the incarnation.

Thank you for your reply, and I do agree on how it's written and the timely appropriations, you are a brilliant mind, I see it but I only ask that you read my post 174 again cuz I edited it with much more detail. If we discover our true height, and not cheat by standing on our toes we then may be truthful to Dad, and He will forgive us if we confess that we stood on our toes when He measured our height. He loves you http://www.christianforums.com/t7817504-18/#post65443446

Gregory Thompson · Apr 22, 2014

geocentrism .. that's kinda like selfcentrism . it's logical . but not Godly .

the creation account illustrates that everything is a harmony .

and it is this harmony that we have become out of touch with in western society .

if geocentrism were more about being good stewards of the planet God has entrusted us .. then i'd probably be behind it .

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

It is telling that the many who are posting against the Scriptures as they are outlined, teaching the geo-centric universe, do not use Scriptures, themselves, to try to refute the Geo-centric universe, but come with opinions and belief systems only, based on nothing but fables of men who claim science, but theirs is falsely so called science.

Gnarwhal · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
It is telling that the many who are posting against the Scriptures as they are outlined, teaching the geo-centric universe, do not use Scriptures, themselves, to try to refute the Geo-centric universe, but come with opinions and belief systems only, based on nothing but fables of men who claim science but science is falsely so called science.

Yes yes such a martyr. It's telling that you believe such an elementary and archaic view of the cosmos to be a literally true understanding of scripture. What a rotter.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

SG9 · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
It is telling that the many who are posting against the Scriptures as they are outlined, teaching the geo-centric universe, do not use Scriptures, themselves, to try to refute the Geo-centric universe, but come with opinions and belief systems only, based on nothing but fables of men who claim science but science is falsely so called science.

Dear YSM, be serious with me, please, I have neglected to look for this mentioned by you already so forgive me if it's repeated; do you suppose that this geocentrism was an actual orbit at some time in the past but has changed since or it is currently the standard? You might have a path that has hidden gems under your feet, literally. I'm just wondering what in your mind, that's all.

I'm talking to my sister, Moon.

sculleywr · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
You really do have a bit of mix-up and lack of the Word's doctrines in this....but: God the Word sits on a created throne in His created heavens in a created temple which He declares He set in the created sun..Isaiah 6, Revelation 4: Moses made a copy of it, as oracles, typing its furnishings, and the clothing the heavenly priesthood wear in heaven [typing the New Man body, as Leviticus 8 oracles]. Before the Greeks ever came to power and glory through Alexander and conquered pagan nations from whom they adopted the myths of the many false gods and goddesses, the torah was long written and the glory of Solomon's kingdom had been destroyed for centuries; and written in the Torah, God declared that "in the sun hath He set His tabernacle"... Rev 9: 13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Isaiah 6: 6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. The Complete Works of Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, War of the Jews, Flavius Josephus Against Apion

God is everywhere present. He has no body, for Christ is the only incarnation of God.

I speak the doctrines of the apostles. You rationalized the teachings of Claudius Ptolemy.

sculleywr · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
Please do, by all means, prove your claim, by Scripture, itself. I have not seen you using Scripture at all, and it will be at least assuring to see you do actually come at this from a point of view you get from the Scriptures, and not from fallible men, whose minds are always changing as their fables prove not valid when tests are run -which they then deny and go on as if they did not get the results proving their fables false. I will be very much waiting to see you use Scripture to prove your position of a heliocentric universe. Meantime, I will use the Scriptures that prove a geo-centric universe, from the beginning....

I'd rather you use your geocentric model on a satellite. See if it works.

sculleywr · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
Again, you have not read what was said and went off as if it was not said....I do not think you read the posts at all, but just take a word and go off.... So what you see is not the actual body of the sun. And the sun is electric, as the stars are. But what did God say about His sun? He said it is a menorah/candlestick, a light holder and a light governor, but it does not manufacture the light and gets it from outside itself to refract out to the entire creation. The sun governs the light brought into being on day 1, in the electric universe. The sun is also the place where God set His created temple, as He says in the Word. When Enoch went into that temple, he said it was cold as ice and hot as fire, and there were no delights of life therein. Enoch said it was made of tessellated crystal, which is cut diamonds, and pillars of fire, which are angels of power.

Please stop talking about stuff that I have looked at myself as if I don't know what it is

Every thing you said about the sun is false. Period.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

sculleywr said:
Please stop talking about stuff that I have looked at myself as if I don't know what it is

Every thing you said about the sun is false. Period.

When I write I am using the Bible doctrines. Period.

You seem to not know the doctrines of the Word on the creation, esp as related to the sun, it's purpose, it's make-up, and it's path which it runs in the circle of the earth, governing the light by day and dispensing it's light to the moon by night, in measured increments, so as to govern the months and the years unto eternity, with the stars bringing in the seasons.

Douay-Rheims -from the Latin Vulgate, to English:
Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Book Of Psalms Psalm 18 [1] Unto the end. A psalm for David.

[2] The heavens shew forth the glory of God, and the firmament declareth the work of his hands.
[3] Day to day uttereth speech, and night to night sheweth knowledge.
[4] There are no speeches nor languages, where their voices are not heard. [5] Their sound hath gone forth into all the earth: and their words unto the ends of the world.
[6] He hath set his tabernacle in the sun: and he, as a bridegroom coming out of his bride chamber, Hath rejoiced as a giant to run the way:
[7] His going out is from the end of heaven, And his circuit even to the end thereof:

1 [For the end, a Psalm of David.] The ... PSALMS / ΨΑΛΜΟΙ18 - Bilingual Septuagint
The Greek Old Testament Septuagint to English:
[FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena][For the end, a Psalm of David.] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims the work of his hands.
2 Day to day utters speech, and night to night proclaims knowledge.
3 There are no speeches or words, in which their voices are not heard.
4 Their voice is gone out into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.
5 In the sun he has set his tabernacle; and he come forth as a bridegroom out of his chamber: he will exult as a giant to run his course.
6 His going forth is from the extremity of heaven, and his circuit to the [other] end of heaven: and no one shall be hidden from his heat. 7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting souls: the testimony of the Lord is faithful, instructing babes.[/FONT]

Latin Vulgate to English:
Psalm 18:

1 victori canticum David

in finem psalmus David

Unto the end. A Psalm Chapter for David.

2 caeli enarrant gloriam Dei et opus manus eius adnuntiat firmamentum

caeli enarrant gloriam Dei et opera manuum eius adnuntiat firmamentum

The heavens shew forth the glory of God, and the firmament declareth the work of his hands.

3 dies diei eructat verbum et nox nocti indicat scientiam

dies diei eructat verbum et nox nocti indicat scientiam

Day to day uttereth speech, and night to night sheweth knowledge.

4 non est sermo et non sunt verba quibus non audiatur vox eorum

non sunt loquellae neque sermones quorum non audiantur voces eorum

There are no speeches nor languages, where their voices are not heard.

5 in universam terram exivit sonus eorum et in finibus orbis verba eorum

in omnem terram exivit sonus eorum et in fines orbis terrae verba eorum

Their sound hath gone forth into all the earth: and their words unto the ends of the world.

6 soli posuit tabernaculum in eis et ipse quasi sponsus procedens de thalamo suo exultavit ut fortis ad currendam viam

in sole posuit tabernaculum suum et ipse tamquam sponsus procedens de thalamo suo exultavit ut gigans ad currendam viam suam;

He hath set his tabernacle in the sun: and he as a bridegroom coming out of his bridechamber, Hath rejoiced as a giant to run the way:

7 a summitate caeli egressus eius et cursus eius usque ad summitatem illius nec est qui se abscondat a calore eius

a summo caeli egressio eius et occursus eius usque ad summum eius nec est qui se abscondat a calore eius

His going out is from the end of heaven, And his circuit even to the end thereof: and there is no one that can hide himself from his heat.

8 lex Domini inmaculata convertens animam testimonium Domini fidele sapientiam praestans parvulis

lex Domini inmaculata convertens animas testimonium Domini fidele sapientiam praestans parvulis

The law of the Lord is unspotted, converting souls: the testimony of the Lord is faithful, giving wisdom to little ones.

Hebrew of Psalm 19:4 in English Bible concordance:

שׂוּם suwm -[He] set/placed
אֹהֶל 'ohel -[His] Tabernacle/dwelling place

שֶׁמֶשׁ shemesh [in the] sun

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

sculleywr said:
I'd rather you use your geocentric model on a satellite. See if it works.

I am waiting for you to use Scripture to prove your claim that the
scriptures teach a helio-centric universe....

sculleywr · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
I am waiting for you to use Scripture to prove your claim that the
scriptures teach a helio-centric universe....

I'm waiting for you to open your eyes. Your INTERPRETATION teaches geocentrism.

if you remove your interpretation and understand what a figure of speech is, you lose geocentrism.

my evidence is that we can SEE a helio centric universe, and NONE of our math works with a Geo-centric universe. There is no geo-centric math in our satellites. If they had it, they would crash down to the earth, and never establish an orbit.

Gregory Thompson · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
It is telling that the many who are posting against the Scriptures as they are outlined, teaching the geo-centric universe, do not use Scriptures, themselves, to try to refute the Geo-centric universe, but come with opinions and belief systems only, based on nothing but fables of men who claim science, but theirs is falsely so called science.

still not sure if you're serious .

sculleywr · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
When I write I am using the Bible doctrines. Period.

You seem to not know the doctrines of the Word on the creation, esp as related to the sun, it's purpose, it's make-up, and it's path which it runs in the circle of the earth, governing the light by day and dispensing it's light to the moon by night, in measured increments, so as to govern the months and the years unto eternity, with the stars bringing in the seasons.

Latin Vulgate to English:
Psalm 18: [/COLOR][/B]

Psalm 19:6
Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.…

From one end of the heavens to the other. well, there is so much more to the heavens. There are entire galaxies. The sun does not just travel in relation to the earth, but in relation to the center of the Milky Way. The Sun orbits the center of our galaxy. It moves, literally, from one end of the heavens to the other, and back again.

This would also make the sun rise on the center of the galaxy.

So not only did God know the sun "rises" on earth," but that it truly "rises" in relation to the objects at the center of our galaxy.

Astronomers now know that the Sun moves in a gigantic orbit around the center of the Milky Way galaxy; traveling at 600,000 miles an hour it would take the Sun 230 million years to make just one orbit! It also is believed that our galaxy is moving with respect to other galaxies in the Universe. The Sun’s going forth is indeed from one end of the heavens to the other. In any case, there is no way to substantiate the claims that the Bible teaches geocentricity, or that it promotes any other anti-scientific concept.

Here are other galaxies that move in relation to ours, not just spirals:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Interacting_Galaxy_NGC_6621_(2008-04-24).jpg

yeshuasavedme · Apr 22, 2014

sculleywr said:
God is everywhere present. He has no body, for Christ is the only incarnation of God.

I speak the doctrines of the apostles.

I opened this with the quotes from apostolic fathers on the geo-centric creation, so, no, you do not.

The body of Christ come in flesh is the New Man flesh of second creation human being Son of God, , but He is sitting on the throne in heaven as the Son of Man in heaven, from the beginning, and the elders of Israel did see Him in His image, as Ezekiel and Isaiah also did.

sculleywr · Apr 22, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
I opened this with the quotes from apostolic fathers on the geo-centric creation, so, no, you do not.

The body of Christ come in flesh is the New Man flesh of second creation human being Son of God, , but He is sitting on the throne in heaven as the Son of Man in heaven, from the beginning, and the elders of Israel did see Him in His image, as Ezekiel and Isaiah also did.

they saw Him, but His flesh is from Mary, His mother.

However, geocentrism isn't about doctrine. It's about opening your eyes and watching the earth move!

The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

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