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The strongest argument for the existence of God

AV1611VET

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I'm sure if I could interview a Crusader from the past right now, he'd tell me the Crusades were definitely done with respect to the Bible, and if I didn't like it, I could take a hike.

But interview a college student today, and the best I can expect from him is to hear him say, "Ya. The Crusaders thought it was Biblical."

It would probably go something like this:

AV1611VET: Were the Crusades done with respect to the Bible, or in spite of It?
College student: They thought they were doing it with respect to the Bible.
AV1611VET: But what do you think?
College student: I think they thought they had an obligation to free Jerusalem from the Gentiles.
AV1611VET: Were they correct in their thinking?
College student: They thought so.
 
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TLK Valentine

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They were Christians -- not particularly good at it, but Christians nonetheless.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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I don't know. The fact is you can make a case for either way. The bible says love your neighbor at the same time it says it was once ok to kill homosexuals. So who knows.
 
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AV1611VET

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I don't know.
That's a shame.
Clizby WampusCat said:
The fact is you can make a case for either way.
But only one is the right one.
Clizby WampusCat said:
The bible says love your neighbor at the same time it says it was once ok to kill homosexuals. So who knows.
I do.

And I don't bring the love-your-neighbor aspect into it.

There's a better way to show it wasn't Biblical.

Have you ever heard of "times of the Gentiles"?
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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That's a shame.But only one is the right one.I do.

And I don't bring the love-your-neighbor aspect into it.

There's a better way to show it wasn't Biblical.

Have you ever heard of "times of the Gentiles"?
Before you explain to me your interpretation of the bible. Please show me that your interpretation is the correct one over a contradicting interpretation of the same passages by a different Christian. If you cannot then we are just wasting our time.
 
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AV1611VET

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Clizby WampusCat

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"In terms of moral rules, secular humanism is indistinguishable from a religion."

Is Secular Humanism a Religion?

Postmodern Religion and the Faith of Social Justice
All atheists are not humanists. And no, humanism is not a religion.

Not all atheists are liberals or progressives. I certainly am not. There are many things to criticize in the progressive ideology however we need to do that in an honest manner. Attacking strawman arguments is easy. You don't want to acknowledge that there is no one progressive/liberal ideology just as there is not one Christian ideology/doctrine. Not all people have the same motives either.
 
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AV1611VET

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Do you require the same standards for those who think the Crusaders were Christians doing what Christians should have been doing as well?
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Not very Christ-like, were they?
What does Christ-like mean to you? Jesus killed 1 million +? people in the flood, he directed Amalekite babies to be killed, Jesus destroyed Sodom and he stands by today and watches children starve to death when he could stop it. One could say the Crusades were Christ-like. God ordered crusade like things in the bible you know and worse.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Do you require the same standards for those who think the Crusaders were Christians doing what Christians should have been doing as well?
Sure, but the fact is that they did that evil thinking it was biblical. So why is your interpretation the correct interpretation and theirs was not?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Not very Christ-like, were they?

Nope -- but they professed that He was their Lord and Savior, and that He died for their sins.
 
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AV1611VET

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What does Christ-like mean to you?
Being born again and yielding myself to Christ's wishes for love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, etc.
Clizby WampusCat said:
Jesus killed 1 million +? people in the flood,
Okay ... and?
Clizby WampusCat said:
... he directed Amalekite babies to be killed,
Okay ... and?
Clizby WampusCat said:
Jesus destroyed Sodom ...
Okay ... and?
Clizby WampusCat said:
... and he stands by today and watches children starve to death when he could stop it.
Okay ... and?
Clizby WampusCat said:
One could say the Crusades were Christ-like.
Absolutely not.

1. The Crusaders weren't Christ himself.

So there goes your excuse that they did it because Christ killed people in the Flood, and destroyed the Sodomites.

2. The Crusaders were not ordered by Christ to free Jerusalem.

So there goes your excuse that they did it because Christ directed Amalekite babies to be killed.

And as far as standing by watching children starve to death, Jesus said ...

Mark 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

As the saying goes: Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

So set that keyboard aside and get that fishing pole out; instead of complaining about it.
 
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AV1611VET

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Sure, but the fact is that they did that evil thinking it was biblical.
So what?

What if they thought it was the scientific thing to do? would that change your mind?

What if they came up with a "final solution" that sounded technologically feasible?

Would you blame that on Darwin?
Clizby WampusCat said:
So why is your interpretation the correct interpretation and theirs was not?
I already showed you they were jumping the gun ... like they did in the wilderness and tried to go into the Promised Land prematurely ... and tried to liberate Jerusalem from the Gentiles, when that is an act reserved for Jesus himself, when He comes back.
 
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AV1611VET

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Nope -- but they professed that He was their Lord and Savior, and that He died for their sins.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Those unregenerate Crusaders who stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement are going to be saying, "In thy name we did many wonderful works;" and they're going to get a reality check.

Aren't they?
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Why is your interpretation the correct one?
 
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AV1611VET

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TLK Valentine

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Those unregenerate Crusaders who stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement are going to be saying, "In thy name we did many wonderful works;" and they're going to get a reality check.

Aren't they?


They are if Paul was wrong...

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Was he?
 
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