The Statue of Mary

[&Abel]

I have a couple questions concerning the statue and I'll warn you right up front this is a somewhat loaded question but I'd appreciate some honest answers

is there a ceremony done on the statue?

is the statue considered sacred by the church?

is some type of special treatment other then maintenance given to the statue?

are objects offered to the statue?

 

[Hentenza]

Mod Hat On
​

Thread moved to Mariology from GT.​

 

[benedictaoo]

when the statue is made is there a ceremony placed over it

No. It's just religious art or decoration.

But you can have it blessed and that's not a ceremony... it's just a prayer (to God) asking for this object to be set apart for his holy use if he so chooses to use it. Then it's a consecrated thing as well as art.

and is there any special treatment given to the statue

Not really- I would think you would respect it like you would respect anything else but it's been blessed, you can't resell it, that would be Simmorty and you shouldn't throw it away but dispose of blessed objects properly. Becuase of the blessing- not for the sake of the object.

Now if it wasn't blessed I would not just throw away a picture of Mary or Jesus just as I would not throw away a picture of my own mother.

These are ppl to us, just as our own family. We honor their memory.

does the church consider it to be more then an object?

No, not at all- what is special is the blessing attached, never the object itself.

like if someone were to say touch it in an improper way or something is that forbidden?

Well what freak would do that?

I would image that is forbidden in any one's home with any image, not just the holy ones. But, no, it's not a god, a idol... it's not what you're implying.

Would you like it if someone came in and touched a picture of your mom inappropriately?

It's the same thing. It's just weird.

do you offer things to the statue?

mmm, no. we can adorn it as a gesture to the person it represents, like when you put flowers on a grave, you are only honoring the memory.

We are not doing what the Israelites did with the golden calf. We are not making an offering to a god. Our offering is the Mas where the sacrifice of Christ is offered once for all.

not you personally but your church in general

What you are referring to is more of a private practice and not really what the Church does.

The Church dedicates churches to Saints, every church as a relic of the Saints build into the alter and they have statues that are usually given to them by the parsinoiers or the diocese and the church is indeed blessed, it's holy ground.

But do you believe in healing charisms or ppl having gifts?

Well it's the same thing- Just becuase we consecrate an object or image to God, does not mean it will be miraculous, it's only if God chooses to use it. He may give this object power or He may not.

For example, if He grants conversion to a green scapular and I give it to someone in faith (faith in God, not the cloth) then if it is God's will, what God wants, the person will be converted.

If a Marian shrine is known for healing then only who God chooses to be heal will be healed. It;s not a guarantee anyone will be healed. It's not magic and one still has to have faith in God's healing power.

 

[&Abel]

ok so do you believe that a prayer is more likely to be answered in the presence of a Mary statue?

 

[benedictaoo]

is it more important or significant to offer flowers to a statue of Mary apposed to your family members?

Okay able.

No, its not more imporatnt. We love them and honor them as seravnts of God.

Now they are Saints meaning in heaven, so we can pray to them... I would not pray to a family mebber but pray for them but that is a whole nother thread.

like do you believe that the offering can help you apposed to being a gesture of honor like with a family member

In no way. absolutely not.

 

[benedictaoo]

ok so do you believe that a prayer is more likely to be answered in the presence of a Mary statue?

Nope.

But lets say I am seeking a healing and a certain icon is miraculous (one God has chosen to work through) then I can go with expectant faith of being healed.

But then again, God can heal me if I do not pray before that icon.

The point in healing through the icon would be for God glory and the whole Church and other ppl's benefit and that is why God would use it.

Not becuase the object itself is anything special.

 

[&Abel]

do you understand that if you are healed its not from the object at all but in the belief that the object can heal you?

 

[benedictaoo]

do you believe that praying in the presence of the statue increases your chances of god answering?

No, my chances are only as good as God's will.

If it's His will to answer through the intersession of that particular Saint and He made the image a channel of His grace, where when we do ask for intersession, then it would be only if this is His will.

Keep in mind that it's the Saint in heaven we are praying to, never the image.

 

[benedictaoo]

do you understand that if you are healed its not from the object at all but in the belief that the object can heal you?

absolutely.

 

[&Abel]

good

 

[benedictaoo]

Did you get a chance to read this.

This is not about statutes but objects, blessings, holy water.

Q. Why does the Church use sacramentals?

A sacramental is a sacred sign by which spiritual effects especially are signified and are obtained by the intercession of the Church (Canon 1166). These sacred signs bear a resemblance to the sacraments (discussed in a later chapter) in that they signify effects, particularly of a spiritual kind. Sacramentals take various forms from blessings to blessed objects. Sacramentals with which we are all familiar are making the sign of the cross (blessing ourselves), holy water (water which has been blessed by a priest and is used, among other uses, for baptism), blessed medals and exorcisms (the blessing out of evil spirits).

Sacramentals, as a rule, were not instituted by Christ (exorcism would be an obvious exception), but by the Church. As such, sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church's intercessory prayer they do prepare us to receive God's grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. The efficacy of a sacramental depends upon the devotion, faith and love of those who use them. Sacramentals serve to remind the faithful of the Glory of God and thereby to draw us closer to Him. The prayer over a meal (blessing the meal) for example, reminds us that all that we have comes from God's love for us and this reminder helps us to be open to receiving even more of God's bounty.

Recommended reading:
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1994, paragraphs 1667-1679
Ott, Dr. Ludwig, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, TAN Books and Publishers, Rockford, IL 61105, 1974, pages 348-349

IOW, they work as good as your faith is. If you have no faith, they do not work and the faith is in God and what He can do, no in the thing itself.

 

[&Abel]

thats exactly what I believe too

but I don't believe the statue is needed at all

that faith applied with other believers will work just as good

 

[benedictaoo]

Here is good article. It should also help you better understand.

SACRAMENTALS: WHAT ARE THEY?
Regina Doman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Welcome!" we said to Todd and Terry and their children, who had arrived for the first visit to our home. Our guests, dressed in the simple, modest clothes of their Anabaptist sect, knew we were Catholic—we had discussed our faith and the Scriptures with them several times, and had shared a meal at their home. But I wondered what they thought of our apartment, with a huge picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe dominating the entrance way.
They were warm and polite, but their small children stared at the Divine Mercy image in the hallway, at the icons in the bedroom, at the Mary night-light in the bathroom.

Before we left to go for a walk, Terry and I found her two oldest children in the living room, gazing in distress at the large realistic crucifix on the wall. "Look. He's hurt," their 5-year-old boy said, with a worried look on his face.

"That's Jesus," his mother said. "Remember how I told you that Jesus suffered on the cross for your sins? That's because He loves you so much."

As the child stared at the terrible wounds of the Man on the cross, the expression on his face turned from horror to awe. It was obvious to both of us that the teaching of his Christian parents had come home to his heart in a new way.

Our crucifix, icons and other articles are examples of what we call sacramentals. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, sacramentals are sacred signs instituted by the Church to prepare us to receive the fruit of the sacraments and to sanctify different circumstances of our lives (no. 1677).

Practically speaking, the myriad of little things that are sacramentals are the parts of catholicity that jostle against us in our everyday life, those little extras that often tell others we are Catholic. They are the images, actions and blessings that are unique to our faith; those sometimes humble reminders of what the Catholic faith is all about, like the crucifix on our wall.

Sacramentals run the gamut from blessings of consecrated virgins to articles such as relics and rosaries. Some, such as holy water, are used by almost every Catholic. Others are more personal, such as devotionals to a particular saint.

Sacramentals have embellished the official liturgies of the Church or sprung from the cultures of different peoples and different times.

For being Catholic is more than the bare bones: attending Mass, receiving Communion twice a year, going to confession, getting confirmed, married and buried in the Church. It is even more than practicing virtues and avoiding sin. It is a way of life in which the body, its senses and spirit are intermingled.

Sacramentals, by their very voluntariness, their apparent status as extras, can supply the externals that make the Catholic way of life singular and outstanding.

Sacramentals are not superstitions, holdovers from pre-Christian days, or Catholic substitutes for the longing of pagans to dance around trees and mutter spells. There is a part of us that longs for something tangible we can hold on to, something to look at, something to touch, something to sing, chant or recite, something that interacts with the senses. The sacraments, those sacred mixtures of matter and the Holy Spirit, fulfill that need. And so, in a lesser way, do sacramentals.

What is the difference between correct use of the sacramental and superstition? It has to do with an inner attitude, for superstition is second cousin to magic. The superstitious person says, "If I sprinkle holy water here, say these prayers and cross myself, I will make God or His saints do this for me." But the person using a sacramental properly says. "I want to be closer to God—to be constantly and effectively reminded of the power of His love and glory, of His protection, forgiveness and mercy. So I will cross myself when I pass a church to remind myself of His passion. I will make a novena to ask God's saints for their prayers. I will do these things, not because I am strong and have the power to make God and His saints do my will, but because I am weak, distractable and forgetful, and need to remind myself of True Reality."

So Catholics hang crucifixes and holy images in their homes to remind them of God and His works. They cross themselves, bless themselves and their homes with holy water and oil. They pray the Angelus at noon in remembrance of the Incarnation. They kiss the Bible or holy object they have accidentally dropped.

Catholics who choose to weave the use of sacramentals into their daily lives can experience a richer, more textured Catholicism. For instance, one young father sprinkles holy water around the beds of his children and prays to God to protect them against nightmares, which sometimes are a problem in their house. Another mother I know uses blessed salt when she bakes bread for her family. Before setting out on a long trip, one youth group blesses its cars with holy oil for a safe journey. I myself have experienced peace during difficult times when I kissed or touched the Miraculous Medal I wear as a reminder of the loving protection of my Mother in heaven. The list of how sacramentals have affected my life and the lives of those I know goes on and on.

If you do not use sacramentals, consider looking into their use. Ann Ball's excellent "Handbook of Catholic Sacramentals" (Our Sunday Visitor) provides explanations of the history and proper use of many popular and obscure sacramentals. As Christ was the invisible God made visible, so sacramentals, like sacraments, are visible signs of His invisible grace, sanctifying daily life. In a way, they are daily restatements of the Incarnation, of God made flesh, and are dwelling among us in mysterious and wonderful ways.

Regina Doman writes from Steubenuille, Ohio. Her work has appeared in Nazareth Journal, Caelum et Terra and You! magazines.

 

[&Abel]

I can understand the idea of implanting the image of christ's death

like a visual aid

but I still think way too much attention is placed on Mary

 

[benedictaoo]

Another point I wanted to make as far as those who believe images are idols...

To deny Mary her image or Christ His is to deny that they lived and breathed.

and to some extent to deny the incarnation itself.

Jesus was made flesh, there is nothing idoltary about making a image of a person who lived, who had a name, a face, a body, an identity.

We make images not to idolize or worship but becuase we are human and it's just a human thing to do. When a person dies on a road side, what do we all do? Adorn it and pray at that site..why? becuase it's just the human thing to do.

I really think a over reaction to Catholicism has caused many to dehumanize themselves unintentionally.

Like DD2008 will not call Mary a person but a creature. I know he picked this up from the Protestant reading but all it is is dehumanizing Mary in order to deny her.

Why do that? She was a human being who lived and breathed and as human beings who have hearts and souls, we love and honor the memory of ppl, we do not dehumaise them. We respect the dignity of the human person, alive or dead.

 

[benedictaoo]

I can understand the idea of implanting the image of christ's death

like a visual aid

but I still think way too much attention is placed on Mary

Well that's another thread altogether.

This is about sacramentals.

 

[MamaZ]

I do have a question. Why do they dress the statue of Mary and parade her around?

 

[DD2008]

Like DD2008 will not call Mary a person but a creature. I know he picked this up from the Protestant reading but all it is is dehumanizing Mary in order to deny her.

Why do that? She was a human being who lived and breathed and as human beings who have hearts and souls, we love and honor the memory of ppl, we do not dehumaise them. We respect the dignity of the human person, alive or dead.

I call all of us creatures. We are. God created us. To speak the truth that humans are creatures is not dehumanizing it is true.

I call Mary blessed because she is the Mother of Christ but I deny that she should be prayed too and I deny all the unbiblical Marian dogmas.
1. Because they aren't supported in scripture and
2. Because they take the focus off of Christ and glorify her instead of God.

I love Mary as a fellow christian and the mother of Christ. However I am not going to offer her any devotions or pray to her or kneel in front of a statue of her because I think that is unbiblical.

She is Christ's mother he will honor her how he sees fit. She is John's adopted mother. He honored her by keeping her at his house.

We can honor our fathers and mothers by showing them respect and helping them with what they need. We only do what they tell us however when we are children. Many times adult children make far better decisions than their parents. There is no reason to believe that Christ obeys Mary in heaven. I firmly believe it is the other way around.

I reject the writings of Louis de Montfort as false and unfounded, written by a probable heretic. I think that the consecration he peddled is certainly idolatry. He asks people to consecrate their soul to Mary and give her their "treasury of merits" (another lie) so they can trust her to take them to Christ because he thinks people aren't worthy to pray directly to God and to do so he says is presumptuous and arrogant...

So, The Roman Catholic Church and a few Popes have embraced these unbiblical writings of de Montfort and have even recommended that that false consecration be performed.

However Christ said this:

Matthew 6:9-13
[9] Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread;
[12] And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
[13] And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.

We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Works are just a product of faith already received. The good news is that salvation is through Jesus Christ and it is free.

Romans 10:9-13
[9] because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will besaved.
[10] For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved.
[13] For, "every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

Epshesians 2:8-9
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no other gospel than this:

Acts 4:10-12
[10] be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well.
[11] This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner.
[12] And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

 

[benedictaoo]

I do have a question. Why do they dress the statue of Mary and parade her around?

I answered you in the "not listening" thread.. I know the irony.. why do you put flowers on a grave?

That's why.

abel came back and answered all of your own questions...

a gesture towards the person it represents

but you are not giving the flowers to the tombstone

your giving them in honor of the person buried

He said it perfectly.

This whole thing has really and truly been answered and if you are not going to read and read the articles I poste here then "your not listening..."

 

[benedictaoo]

I call all of us creatures. We are. God created us. To speak the truth that humans are creatures is not dehumanizing it is true.

I call Mary blessed because she is the Mother of Christ but I deny that she should be prayed too and I deny all the unbiblical Marian dogmas.
1. Because they aren't supported in scripture and
2. Because they take the focus off of Christ and glorify her instead of God.

I love Mary as a fellow christian and the mother of Christ. However I am not going to offer her any devotions or pray to her or kneel in front of a statue of her because I think that is unbiblical.

She is Christ's mother he will honor her how he sees fit.

We can honor our fathers and mothers by showing them respect and helping them with what they need. We only do what they tell us however when we are children. Many times adult children make far better decisions than their parents. There is no reason to believe that Christ obeys Mary in heaven. I firmly believe it is the other way around.

I reject the writings of Louis de Montfort as false and unfounded, written by a probable heretic. I think that the consecration he peddled is certainly idolatry. He asks people to consecrate their soul to Mary and give her their "treasury of merits" (another lie) so they can trust her to take them to Christ because he thinks people aren't worthy to pray directly to God and to do so he says is presumptuous and arrogant...

So, The Roman Catholic Church and a few Popes have embraced these unbiblical writings of de Montfort and have even recommended that that false consecration be performed.

However Christ said this:

Matthew 6:9-13
[9] Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread;
[12] And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
[13] And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.

We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Works are just a product of faith already received. The good news is that salvation is through Jesus Christ and it is free.

Romans 10:9-13
[9] because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will besaved.
[10] For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved.
[13] For, "every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

Epshesians 2:8-9
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no other gospel than this:

Acts 4:10-12
[10] be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well.
[11] This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner.
[12] And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Okay Dave... you have to stop preaching and throwing scripture around like dish water. and for the gazillionth time, devotions are not doctrine, De montfort is not a Church doctor and it's not even required.

BUt I am here to answer questions, not be preached at. i can 110% assure you that you can not convert me into thinking the Church is wrong and Marian devotion is or any devotion to any Saint is. It is not required and as a Catholic no one has to do it but it is not wrong if you do.

Now, here is the point I would like to make... you are catholic, all of you are catholic here, you do catholics things day in and day out- you have honoring ceremonies where we honor ppl, and you have road side shines and candlelight vigils, memorials, etc and y'all decorate your house with all kinds of chachki. you put photos of loved one all around the place, even tote them in your wallet, show them to who ever will look a them, hang deceased loved ones pictures in places of high honor.

But as soon as you step foot in a church-bam- you go into dehumanize mode, you can't even think of looking at anyone who died as anything but dead and gone.

But when you leave church- you go back to be a human being working off the 5 senses. IOW, you go back to being catholic.

She is John's adopted mother. He honored her by keeping her at his house.

which makes the theory she had other kids completely illogical. Just some food for thought.