The Start of the Tribulation

[Ludwig van Beethoven]

What about this gematria?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7715105

I've heard of that Gematria before. It is not the Hebrew gematria. I'm not sure where it came from, but It's not the sort God was talking about.

 

[Jipsah]

Okay, it's clear that you believe Gematria is evil, but how do you explain "COUNTING THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST" which is what YHWH said to do?

Depends on whether you're using it as a form of encryption or using it to foretell the future. If the latter, then you're off the reservation. For instance, I mark costs on my merchandise so I know what it cost me but the customers don't. So if there's a sticker on something that says "PTSS", I know I paid 15.99 for the item (and now you know the numeric letter values for 1, 5, and 9 in Jipsah Gematria). Nothing there offending against God's commandment forbidding divination. BUT, if I try, by some stupid means or the other, to use Jipsah Gematria as a form of numeromancy to predict or "divine" the future, then I am acting in violation of God's prohibition. St. John was giving the encoded name of the beast to those who he expected to know it. But what I see everyone who plays at numeromancy in these forums does is trying to predict when our Lord will return, and that is unquestionably divination, and an offense against the Law.

The truly interesting thing is that those who seem fondest of making predictions of the future using gematria are also those who are keenest on playing at being Jewish, and who prattle loudest about keep the Law. Like most legalists, they're really zealous about some laws, but totally ignore others that might cramp their style a bit. Amazing, isn't it?

When it comes to soothsaying, I'll stick with my Magic 8 Ball. It's just as accurate as any other form of divination, but with little to no risk of anyone actually taking it seriously.

 

[Jipsah]

There's a name for dumping the historic Gospel for other things, but I've forgot what it is.

I think "lunacy" would be close to the mark.

 

[Jipsah]

What about this gematria?

Wash your hog, sir?

 

[Ludwig van Beethoven]

Something that people have trouble with sometimes is that they think the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are all linear, when actually they are layered. They probably aren't layered exactly (as in: Seal 1 = Trumpet 1 = Bowl 1, etc.) but they are layered to a certain extent. Evidence to this fact can be seen in Revelation 10:11 "And he said to me, 'You must prophecy again about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings.'"

You'll notice that he says "You must prophecy again" instead of "You must continue to prophecy". He is being specific when he says "again". John is to prophecy about the same sequence of events again, this time in a different way, focusing on other details.

Further evidence lies in the fact that Seal #6 clearly describes The Day of the Lord, which occurs at the end of the Tribulation. Then Trumpet #7 describes the Day of the Lord again. Then Bowl #7 describes the same event again. The prophecy has clearly been layered, because God knows that it's the best way to provide sufficient detail. The movie "Source Code" is an example of this.

 

[Ebed]

You may view the 5 minute update this week via audio:

1) Listen to the audio http://www.hebroots.org/yeshiva/5_Min_Jan_12_2013.mp3

This week’s update is an interview with Pastor T.D. Hale regarding his prophetic dreams about Obama being reelected and events associated with his 2nd term.

Shalom in Yeshua the Messiah,

Eddie Chumney
Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int’l

 

[Ronald]

Wash your hog, sir

You are rude! Like I told you in another thread, these are all curious speculations concerning non-essential eschatological information that might lead us to the identification of the antichrist. I am not agreeing with gematria, I am just asking a question to someone who is coming up with different answers. If you read the thread, you would find that I agree with the 70 weeks of Daniel as already being fulfilled. So now I can call you bonehead for your ignorant response. Do not respond to my posts.

 

[Ebed]

Late March 2012 was when i first became aware of TD Hale's dream while listening in and sharing thoughts in chat in the Beit Yacov room on Paltalk as custom on Shabbat mornings.

Eddie gives a 5 minute update followed by a teaching...

That Day he taught on Identifying the characteristics of the End time nation, the daughter of babylon (which was how i first found Hebraic roots ministry in 2005)...The teaching that day was followed by Hale's dream...

digressing for a moment

I had a website, babylonUSA.info 2005-2008 that was dedicated to Identifying the daughter of babylon as the USA, I started the site before I knew of the Hebraic roots understanding. While searching other ministries that thought the same concerning the USA, I found Eddie's book online, of which a portion of chapter 11 Identifies the USA as babylon...Then I read the entire book a couple of times.. Titled > Restoring the Two Houses of Israel

Online Here. Waytozion.org

I had no doubts that O would win re-election, and posted threads in open forums since 3/2012 with the following title

"Obama wins second term" with Hale's Dream and Eddie's teaching as the OP

which i already believed before Hale's Dream because of the reasons pointed out in my first post in this thread...

You have to be spiritually blind not to see the prophecies that are being fulfilled before our eyes...

Pre-trib critical error

I haven't been raptured so this is proof the last 7yr week has not started and since the last 7yr period has not started, is the reason why I haven't been raptured.......... It is called "Circular Reasoning."

Preterist critical error - practically everything from Genesis to Revelation, delusional thinking, scripturally insane, they do not believe YHWH's Word - a malignant Cancer... upsetting the faith of the Saints, good for absolutely nothing.

pre-tribbers are only off a little eschatologically speaking, preterist are off the deep end of the loony bin, crippled to high for crutches.

Because of the Importance of spreading the following warning, and giving as many as possible the head's up, Here Again Twice for emphasis

URGENT URGENT URGENT

You may view the 5 minute update this week via audio:

1) Listen to the audio http://www.hebroots.org/yeshiva/5_Min_Jan_12_2013.mp3

This week’s update is an interview with Pastor T.D. Hale regarding his prophetic dreams about Obama being reelected and events associated with his 2nd term.

Shalom in Yeshua the Messiah,

Eddie Chumney
Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int’l

 

[Ebed]

Shalom Mishpocah, you must understand something here: This is NOT a suggestion; it's NOT a "clever" proposal that someone can take or reject at his convenience; it's NOT simply "good" advice; it's NOT just a recommendation; it is a COMMANDMENT; it is a holy DICTATE; it is a divine DECREE, and it must be treated as such. It MUST be obeyed!

Jeremiah 51:45 "My people, go you out of the midst of her, and deliver you every man his soul from the fierce anger of YHWH."

Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues."

The command to leave Babylon USA will come in one year and then in another.

Jeremiah 51: 46 "And lest your heart faint, and you fear for the Hear and Obey Report-Shemuah that shall be heard in the land; a Hear and Obey Report shall both come one year, and after that in another year shall come a Hear and Obey Report, and violence in the land, ruler against ruler." (civil war)

Shemuah > From Shema => Hear and obey - report/ command / Report x2 Come out MY people

The End of the age when all this will come about is clearly defined as such in Jeremiah 50 and 51:

50:4 and 20 in those days and at that time Joel 3:2 when Yahudah has returned to Yerushalayim.

51:2 the day of trouble <=> Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30:7.

51:33 the time of harvest <=> the harvest is the end of the world Matthew 13:39

_________ Whenever YHWH repeats something you better pay close attention...when He says something this many times you better LISTEN, Hear and Obey when the time comes - no excuses

Jeremiah 50:8: "Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of The Land of the Chaldeans( satanic mystery religions), and be as the he goats before the flocks."

to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, Dan 2:2

magicians -astrologers - sorcerers- babylonian religions = Chaldeans...it is deeper than an ethnic heritage in the text of Dan and Jer

50:16: "Cut off the sower from babylon , and him that handleth the sickle in the Time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land."

50:28: "The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of babylon, to declare in Tzion the vengeance of YAHUWAH ELOHEYNU, the vengeance of His temple."

50:45: "Therefore hear you the counsel of YHWH, that He hath taken against Babylon; and His purposes, that He hath purposed against the land of the Chaldeans: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely He shall make their habitation desolate with them."

51:6: "Flee out of the midst of babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of YHWH's vengeance; He will render unto her a recompense."

51:9: "We would have healed Babylon , but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies."

51:45: "My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of YHWH." Revelation 18:4

51:50: "You that have escaped the sword, go away, stand not still: remember YHWH afar off, and let Yerushalayim come into your mind."

Note: This is a reference to Rev. 18:4 and is directed at those who have escaped the sword in the USA and the civil war, martial law, the beast

Isaiah 13 and 49

Isaiah 13:1 burden against Babylon...... 14 "And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land."

Isaiah 49: 20 Go you forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare you, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say you, that YAHUWAH has redeemed His servant Yacob.

In all these places, fleeing escaping the Land of the last great nation called the daughter of the Chaldeans Isaiah 48, land of astrologers and mediums, the daughter of Babylon Jeremiah 50:42, 51:33 is repeated over and over and over,

I think YAH is trying to get that nations attention...there is no no excuse...

Leaving the Land of this Hindermost Nation is commanded to Survive the Judgments upon her and is commanded during the Day of YHWH Jeremiah 50:12

Isaiah 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the Hear and Obey Report SHEMUAH.

Shalom

 

[Jipsah]

You are rude!

Rudeness is subjective, so perhaps you find me so. But anything that leads off with numeromancy as its argument is hogwash, whether you find me saying so rude or not. Numeromancy, or, if you prefer, "gematria", is a pernicious fraud, and hence anything that depends on it is necessarily false and fraudulent. Over the years we've seen dozens of people set dates and name antichrists based on numeromancy, with a 100% failure rate. And the reason for that is simple - numeromancy is hogwash: a lie, a deceit, a fraud, and a deception. Trying to divine when our Lord will return based on it is in clear violation of God's prohibition of any form of divination. It's the stuff of soothsayers, fortune tellers, seers, "wizards who peep and mumble", "psychics", witches, and all others of similar ilk.

Like I told you in another thread, these are all curious speculations concerning non-essential eschatological information that might lead us to the identification of the antichrist.

It will surely lead you to the identification a one or more antichrists. Just pick one of the ones from the long list of antichrists that people have "identified", or identify one of your own. Just don't expect to arrive at anything approximating the truth.

So now I can call you bonehead for your ignorant response. Do not respond to my posts.

Sorry, OM, it's a public forum. And anything based on numeromancy is still hogwash.

 

[Jipsah]

Preterist critical error - practically everything from Genesis to Revelation, delusional thinking, scripturally insane, they do not believe YHWH's Word - a malignant Cancer... upsetting the faith of the Saints, good for absolutely nothing.

<Laugh> Which tranlates to "I don't like Preterism (orthodox or nay) a bit." So noted.

But just for grins, has sacrifice and oblation ceased, or not? If not, where's it happening? If so, then you're a Preterist. Choose well... <Grin>

 

[Ebed]

<Laugh> Which tranlates to "I don't like Preterism (orthodox or nay) a bit." So noted.

But just for grins, has sacrifice and oblation ceased, or not? If not, where's it happening? If so, then you're a Preterist. Choose well... <Grin>

which translates as preterism is gross error, doctrines of demons...so far off that there is nothing redeemable in its teachings...a pick a choose theology, a delusion created by the god of this world...Preterism is in opposition to the Gospel of the Kingdom, that Yeshua died for two nations...As for your question, it has been answered in this thread, It is your problem that you can not see it...preterism is anathema

Yet, it is pre-trib beliefs that will cause more to be killed by the sword in the Great Tribulation....as more people believe that lie and will not escape.

 

[Ludwig van Beethoven]

<Laugh> Which tranlates to "I don't like Preterism (orthodox or nay) a bit." So noted.

But just for grins, has sacrifice and oblation ceased, or not? If not, where's it happening? If so, then you're a Preterist. Choose well... <Grin>

No one says it is happening right now. It must start first, then it will be stopped. It ceased in 70 A.D. but that was not the stopping of which the bible was speaking. That will be done by the Antrichrist.

 

[zeke37]

No one says it is happening right now. It must start first, then it will be stopped. It ceased in 70 A.D. but that was not the stopping of which the bible was speaking. That will be done by the Antrichrist.

the temple of God is "us", not a building in the middle east.
Paul explains that 4-5 times and then teaches about the son of perdition sitting there

the sacrifices referred to, are the continual sacrifices, that will not ever stop until the AC stops it.
so, the only way for me to reconcile this, since animal sacrifices have stopped a long time ago
is to see that the continual sacrifices referred to, are prayers to God, and not blood sacrifice.

prayer was/is an acceptable daily sacrifice, and it has never ceased.

now, it is Christian prayer that is the focus,
so since we are the temple of God, if the son of perdition comes and claims to be God/Jesus,
guess where he will attempt to sit?

in you....not a temple in the middle east.
if you believe his lies, he will be God to you, and will sit in you as such.
this is the great apostasy that is prophesied to happen to Christendom
to all but the elect

 

[Jipsah]

which translates as preterism is gross error, doctrines of demons.

Yeah, I noted that you don't like it. So, do you reckon that the prophecy about sacrifice ceasing wasn't fulfilled, or that the fulfillment somehow didn't count? Gotta be one or the other, 'cause sacrifice hasn't been happening for a couple thousand years odd. So which is it? Which does you doctrine require you to do, deny historical fact, or deny the validity of that fact? Seems like Hobson's choice to me, since either way your doctrine requires to to either try and weasel around reality or deny it altogether.

preterism is anathema

Yeah, I noted that date-setters and their ilk are pretty free with flinging out anathemas. They're not too good at getting their dates right, though.

 

[Jipsah]

It ceased in 70 A.D.

Thank you for having thedecency to admit that simple fact (although that does make you a (gasp!) preterist and thus subject to Ebed's anathema. I hope that doesn't cause you too much consternation.)

but that was not the stopping of which the bible was speaking.

Really? Says so right there on your doctrine, right?

 

[Ebed]

Yeah, I noted that you don't like it. So, do you reckon that the prophecy about sacrifice ceasing wasn't fulfilled, or that the fulfillment somehow didn't count? Gotta be one or the other, 'cause sacrifice hasn't been happening for a couple thousand years odd. So which is it? Which does you doctrine require you to do, deny historical fact, or deny the validity of that fact? Seems like Hobson's choice to me, since either way your doctrine requires to to either try and weasel around reality or deny it altogether.

Yeah, I noted that date-setters and their ilk are pretty free with flinging out anathemas. They're not too good at getting their dates right, though.

In 2009 i shared with Richard, the xbeliever-preterist who still runs Bibles, Wheels, and Brains | A Freethinker's Exploration of Religion, Science, and the Mind , things discovered by me in English Gematria.....Richard on his site calculated every word in the Masoretic and Received text and the verse Gematria totals...a worthwhile work...he falsely accused me of being someone else and said English Gematria was not something YAH would do, especially since everything He planned on doing and told us about was finished in 70 AD

I wrote Him the Word YAH gave me for him, that the ministry he had was been taken from him...for the false preterist view and being against YAH working all things together for His Good...limiting the Almighty by his vain preterist philosophy

Here is what is on the frontpage of his site now

Bibles, Wheels, and Brains | A Freethinker&#039;s Exploration of Religion, Science, and the Mind

In late 2009 my wife and I began questioning our beliefs and have since left the faith. Oddly enough, the evidence for the Bible Wheel withstood our skepticism though the Bible itself did not. What it means remains a mystery.

>>>

The Truth...I wrote him that even what he thought he had was being taken from him and it was...

 

[Ebed]

On the biblewheel site there are the four verses that Equal 1717 in Hebrew Gematria...

Full Text Hebrew/Greek Bible Gematria Database

English Total <> Hebrew Total

1) 7373rd vs. 160th vs. 1st Samuel 8:3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment. 987 <> 1717

2) 11878th vs. 683rd vs. 2 Chronicles 32:2 And when Hezekiah saw that sennacherib was come, and that he was purposed to fight against Jerusalem 909 <> 1717

3) 13258th vs. 388th vs. Job 16:19 Also now, behold, my witness is in Heaven, and my Record is on High. 607 <> 1717

4) 14610th vs. 670th vs. Psalms 45:12 And the daughter of tyre shall be there with a gift, even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour. 987 <> 1717

Verses 1 & 4 equal 987 in the Standard English method which is something in itself, highlighted, what is not highlighted is the rest of the symmetry between the Hebrew values for wisdom and the English.

Then i thought to calculate the 1717th verse, and it equaled 987, YAH was not Hands off when it came to performing His Word, especially the translation that has been most instrumental in spreading the Gospel for the past 400 years....even with the obvious bias, It is not a perfect translation. YHWH is not limited, and NOTHING is to hard for Him

1717th vs. 184th vs. Exodus 8:6 And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of egypt, and the frogs came up, and covered the land of egypt. 987 <> 3795

3795+987= 4782 3795-987= 2808

<><><>

1-4

1717+987= 2704 >13> 4 1717+909= 2626 >16> 7 1717+607= 2324>11> 2 1717+987=2704 >13> 4

4724

1717-987= 730 >10> 1 1717-909= 808 >16> 7 1717-607= 1110 > 3 1717-987= 730 >10> 1

1731

>>>

2704+2626+2324+2704= 10358

730+808+1110+730= 3378

Possibility of a verse equalling 987 in English Gematria First 3605 verses > Genesis - Leviticus

4 occurrences 1-3605

901.25 to 1 Possibility that any verse will equal 987

There are 31,102 verses in the scripture, what is the Possibility that 2 of those verses = 987 and also 1717

Possibility that a verse equals 1717 in the Scriptures, Masoretic, Received Text 1 in 7775.5

Plus the 1717th verse Gematrai 987 .... Chance, Coincidence, Not Possible, this is clear evidence of Design from the Almighty as only He can do.

 

[Ludwig van Beethoven]

Thank you for having thedecency to admit that simple fact (although that does make you a (gasp!) preterist and thus subject to Ebed's anathema. I hope that doesn't cause you too much consternation

You can't be serious. Let me explain something very carefully:

I AM NOT A PRETERIST! "ADMITTING" THAT THE TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED IN 70 A.D. DOES NOT SUGGEST THAT IN THE LEAST!!

OF COURSE THE TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED IN 70 A.D.! EVERYONE KNOWS THAT! A PRETERIST IS NOT JUST SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THAT, BUT RATHER SOMEONE WHO IS BLIND ENOUGH TO THINK THAT THE TEMPLE'S DESTRUCTION IS THE "ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" OR THAT ANY OTHER UNFULFILLED PROPHECY IN THE BIBLE HAS ALREADY HAPPENED! DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM TO YOU! HUH!?

Feel free to read the above paragraph again and again if you still think I'm a preterist. Thank you.

-LvB-

 

[wordsoflife]

Feel free to read the above paragraph again and again if you still think I'm a preterist.

Yep, you're a partial preterist.