The Spirituality of Premonitions

[Yahu_]

Im not sure if falls into the same category as premonition but when I was in the military, there was the leadership of a local coven of witches in my own dorm. It was the only time in my life that I started getting visions. Each vision was a representation of one of the girls in my dorm that I knew.

I didn't know anything about any of them being involved in witchcraft at that time. Those visions in some cased did have a future aspect to some of them. They also changed over time as a events unfolded. I was also looking for a wife at the time. It turned out that I only received visions pertaining to single women. One of the married women on the softball team I was assistance coach wanted to know what I saw about her. I told her nothing. I told her her husband was the guardian of her heart and I had no business getting a vision about her.

For example, one of the girls I couldn't stand to be around. My discernment of spirits was very active and she literally reeked of death and corruption. The vision I got of her was confusing. It was full of symbolism that was known to her and the coven but I wasn't familiar with. The vision I had of her was of an ancient tree in a forest. There was a crescent shaped pool of water at the base. There were cloth hangings from the branches with symbols on them. The pool of water was stagnant and reeked of death with dead things floating in it and insects feeding off of the decay.

When I confronted her about the evil I sensed in her I told her and her friends the vision I had concerning her. They already knew about the vision I had of the girl I was courting. When I told them about the trees they asked 'like a grove'? Yeah, you could call it a grove. And the pool is shaped like a crescent moon? Yeah. It turned out she was a witch that followed the moon goddess that was worshiped in the groves. The symbols on the cloth hangings were symbols in witchcraft. I later found out that not only was she into sexual worship of her goddess but instead of birth control, she had regularly scheduled abortions several times a year and dedicated them to her goddess as well as used blood from them in her witchcraft.

IMO, it was because of the heavy spiritual oppression of the situations that the Holy Spirit started manifesting powers in opposition to their witchcraft as a witness to them. I also started operating in word of knowledge and told the girl I didn't know what kind of evil she was into BUT what I senses was like witchcraft, mass murder or human sacrifice. I later found out what she was and that she had already had 23 abortions.

I ended up telling six of the girls present the visions I had for each of them and all confirmed how it applied to them. Others that I didn't know wanted their visions but I had nothing. I didn't know them.

One girl's vision was blotches of color like a painting but the colors were moving and there was a large black patch swallowing up the color patches. There were also flashes of lights like stars among the colors. I told her it was all color and movement. She said yep, that's me 'chaos in motion' as she laughed. She was the roommate of the above witch and was being dragged into involvement. Later that vision changed with the black patch swallowing up more of the color areas and some of the flashes of light were also gone. I told her what about it and in shame said, 'what have you done?'. She nearly burst into tears. Her roommate had gotten her involved with the coven and the sexual worship and abortions. She repented and got saved. She is now a pastor's wife with a large bunch of kids.

That time of my life was the only time I have ever had visions like that.

 

[Deadworm]

Yahu, thanks for your highly engaging post. It illustrates 2 of my chief concerns about psychic abilities such as premonitions and "the word of Knowledge:"

(1) Why was I given these death premonitions after being "baptized in the Holy Spirit?" A couple of them were spiritually useful and edifying. But why would God give me a premonition of Dallas Barnhart's fatal hunting accident, when my disclose of it merely offended him because I had no evidence--only an inner certitude when I sensed his skeleton rather than his skin and outer appearance? Was the premonition given to me merely to alert me to the need to pray for his safety? In any case, I subsequently wanted to deny its reality, and so, I did nothing.

(2) Where is the line between hidden psychic potentials of the mind and revelation from the Holy Spirit? I can rule out the possibility that my own premonitions had a demonic source, but I still wonder about discerning the difference between demonic premonitions and the godly. It may be that the distinction between natural psychic abilities and a gift of the Holy Spirit is ultimately false because, when the Spirit gives us the gift of "the world of knowledge," He does so by activating a natural potential of the mind. The question is important to me because I and my family have had rich experiences from the Holy Spirit, and yet, I recognize that most Christian revelations alleged to come from the Spirit are in fact "of the flesh."

 

[Yahu_]

Yahu, thanks for your highly engaging post. It illustrates 2 of my chief concerns about psychic abilities such as premonitions and "the word of Knowledge:"

(1) Why was I given these death premonitions after being "baptized in the Holy Spirit?" A couple of them were spiritually useful and edifying. But why would God give me a premonition of Dallas Barnhart's fatal hunting accident, when my disclose of it merely offended him because I had no evidence--only an inner certitude when I sensed his skeleton rather than his skin and outer appearance? Was the premonition given to me merely to alert me to the need to pray for his safety? In any case, I subsequently wanted to deny its reality, and so, I did nothing.

(2) Where is the line between hidden psychic potentials of the mind and revelation from the Holy Spirit? I can rule out the possibility that my own premonitions had a demonic source, but I still wonder about discerning the difference between demonic premonitions and the godly. It may be that the distinction between natural psychic abilities and a gift of the Holy Spirit is ultimately false because, when the Spirit gives us the gift of "the world of knowledge," He does so by activating a natural potential of the mind. The question is important to me because I and my family have had rich experiences from the Holy Spirit, and yet, I recognize that most Christian revelations alleged to come from the Spirit are in fact "of the flesh."

I didn't consider them psychic abilities at all. I knew they were from the Holy Spirit but one of my spiritual gifts is discernment of spirits. That gives the ability to sense, discern the anointing of the Holy Spirit from other spiritual forces. Maybe you should ask/pray for that gift as well.

As to why Yah would give anyone a specific vision or word of knowledge. I don't know. That is certainly outside my domain.

Now I don't see how my visions came about from the flesh. The only one I originally told was my fiance. I told her the vision I had about her. It was the first one I had. It was her gossip to the other girls of the dorm they found out about them. I was concerned with telling them if they disputed with what I had seen. Most of the visions were fairly simple but I found out my fiance recognized truth of her vision as soon as I told her. She knew exactly what some of the symbolism represented and I didn't have a clue. The visions were not for me but for them.

The vision of my fiance was of a silver orb. It had tarnish spots and several dents with one large dent with 8 cracks radiating out from it. It turned out she had been gang raped 2 years before by 8 of her own classmates in tech school. When I told her the vision, she just started crying. The pre-marriage counseling I took her through we considered 'polishing that orb' to repair the dents, cracks and make it shine. The vision wasn't for me but for her.

In my case, the visions may have been a form of 'word of wisdom' to help in counseling. Of course it wasn't exactly a 'word' but it did help me identify where there were hidden problems I wasn't aware of the source. I ended up doing a lot of relationship, pre-marital, marital and rape counseling on the side as a result of the counseling for my fiance. There was a lot of need of particularly the rape counseling. The coven was dealing in date rape drugs on the base trying to get as many women bitter and angry at men as a recruiting tool to give them power to seek revenge while at the same time controlling men through sex and providing them with the date rape drugs.

The gifts of the spirit operated the most powerfully during that time of my life but it was because of the need to stand against the evil of the coven. My last day at my home church before I left for basic training, the pastor and elders laid hands on me to pray over me. One of the elders prophecies I was being called into a prophetic ministry under the spirit and power of Elijah. Within 6 months I met my fiance and her roommate. Her roommate was a high priestess of Ashtoreth that led the entire coven. She had actually merged 3 covens and put them all under her authority. We ended up in a 3 year battle with my fiance/wife in the middle that ended with me losing my wife but the coven ended up in prison for the things they did. Over a hundred people were prosecuted and at least a dozen dead. The first anti-stalking laws were passed in California as a result and the date rape drug had a blue dye added to it by the pet drug manufacturer as a result. The consequences of that conflict had a national impact. I think that is why the Holy Spirit manifested those gifts then. I was just a willing tool in the right place at the right time.

Personally, I would have traded all those gifts away for my wife back but that is just me being selfish. I know how many people got saved due to that conflict but it is still hard to deal with the price it cost.

 

[Yahu_]

"THE SCIENCE OF PREMONITIONS:" A Book by Dr. Larry Dossey:
It seemed as if I saw his skeleton and was certain that he would be killed in an accident if he went on this trip. Horrified, I felt compelled to share my premonition with him.

Only once have I had a premonition of dread like that. There was no vision but just a feeling of dread.

It was during that same time period of my life. Shelly, one of the girls that was a close friend admitted she had been invited to an off-base party and wasn't going to be available that weekend. I got an instant sense of dread and told her not to go. She told me it wasn't any of my business or concern and that she was going.

The next week when I asked her about the party she was evasive. When I pushed a little harder she got furious with me and told me she would NOT talk about it. Her sudden rage over it was out of character for her.

I didn't find out what happened for many months. Shelly had been distant during that period. The coven was inviting 4 new girls to their parties they had off base every weekend in suites in the local Embassy Suites. They actually charged the girls $500 to attend to help cover costs their 1st time but it was free every weekend after that. They were suppose to be able to meet a lot of the best looking men from base, the athletes and body builders and would be sure to meet lots of guys to date. When they got to the party they found out the party was run by the local coven and they bound curses to anyone that would activate if they talked about the parties with any outsider. They then proceeded to drug the drinks of the four 'new meat' girls. They were gang raped while the coven cheered as a warm up to the 'main event' of the party. It was suppose to be their initiation into the group. Of course many refused to ever return. The ones that did return were recruited into the coven.

It wasn't until one of the coven's victims (one of the girls from my softball team) came running to me for rape counseling because she knew how much I had helped my fiance, then I found out that Shelly had been a previous victim along with 3 other girls out of our dorm. A few weeks later, I took Shelly through the same rape counseling and taught them how to break off the coven's curses while I helped get the police investigation going on the parties. She admitted she wished she had listened to me then but she had refused to talk about it before because of the curses they had bound to her.

She even begged me to tell her the vision I had concerning her because I had never told her. She thought it must be something bad. I was confused. I never had gotten a vision of her. Then it dawned on me. Are you married? It turned out she had divorced before enlisting.

 

[Deadworm]

Of course, the most famous premonition ever is Jesus' foreknowledge that Judas would betray Him. Yet from His perspective outside time, God was able to incorporate even this evil act into His plan for Jesus' mission. Romans 8:28 is relevant here: "We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, have been called according to his purpose." Paul's point is this: even when circumstances are conspiring against your best interests, wherever possible, God is plugging away for the good to salvage something beautiful and purposeful out of an otherwise horrid predicament.

 

[orangeness365]

There have been several times that I thought God spoke to me in dreams, but there is one specific dream/sleep paralysis event that I had where I'm really really sure that God spoke to me. He didn't really call me to do anything with my life or accomplish anything other than forgive my mother and ask for her forgiveness in return. Maybe to stop being so afraid too. With my words I went through the motions of forgiving and asking for forgiveness, but I didn't really stop hating my mother until 10 years later. I didn't even realize what I coward I was until I finally got a driver's license. Everyone else drives a car no problem, but I'm too scared to drive anywhere new by myself. I'm putting my hope in driverless cars, which is sad. the truth is I've been afraid of people and everything in this world for a long time, but I hid the fear from myself for the longest time. I used to think I could see the future when I was young, but in the dream, when I asked God what He thought of my prophetic ability, He said, "You are not sent." I didn't really understand or accept that answer until many years later when I read Jeremiah 23:21, where it is referencing false prophets, where God says that they were not sent, (by Him), yet they ran. About 3 years later I started hearing voices and seeing things that weren't there. The voices claimed to be God quite often. Sometimes I believed it was God and sometimes I did not. One time I saw something that looked like a grayish/black silhouette of a man, walking across the parking lot while I was waiting for my family who was in the grocery store at the time. I saw the silhouette walk across the parking lot and approach one of the cars parked there. I heard something being babbled to me about the silhouette, basically telling me to watch. I then saw the silhouette hit a car with both fists really hard. A second later that exact same car starting flashing and it's alarm started going off. At the moment the car started flashing the silhouette disappeared and after that a cop in the parking lot went to investigate the car, but no one was there. The voices would tell me all sorts of bs, the vast,vast majority of which didn't come true. Most of what the voices said were commands and insults. Anyways, for a couple of months the voices kept telling me that someone in my family, possibly extended family, would die soon, possibly more than one. They kept telling me this, but I was distanced from my family at this point and told no one. A couple of months later one of my uncles passed away suddenly with no warning in his 50's of a heart attack. I feel bad that I didn't pray about this or tell anyone. maybe if I had said something then my aunt would have been more alert and found him in time to take him to the hospital in time. Then my grandma about 2 years later, who was in seemingly very good health, suddenly had a blood clot, lost her leg, and then less than a year later, passed away. Honestly, I believe the voices were demonic at this point. They told me lies about so many things, and the only thing they got right was that my uncle died right around the time they said someone would die. I take meds now though so I don't hear voices or see things that aren't there anymore. I stopped praying and almost completely stopped talking to anyone because the voices I heard told me to. However, after I prayed one time after having not done so in a very long time, i heard a voice that convinced me to call the police and ask them to arrest me, and then ended up in a mental hospital, and on meds. I prayed again for help again, and the voices convinced me to take the meds continuously, saying that if I did, I would only hear Jesus's voice if I did. I kept taking the meds and now I don't hear any voices. Although there was a time where I heard a voice a couple of years later claiming to be Jesus, saying Bible verses, and then I upped the dosage, and then the voice went away again, and then that happened twice. Now I don't hear or see anything that is not there. I know that the premonition about my uncle's death was not from God, because God had told me I wasn't sent a couple of years before that happened.

 

[PottersHands]

(11) I have left out one premonition that still astounds me. It came to me shortly after my experience of Spirit baptism recorded in the 2nd post of my thread "Speaking in Tongues and Spirit Baptism." I encourage readers to check out that whole report --and thread. In that experience, during a period of faith-crippling doubt, God spoke to me more clearly than at any other time in my life. As I posted in that thread, God told me, "You are desperate for answers to life's vexing questions. But right now answers aren't good for you. They will cause you to live from your head rather from your heart. What I want you to do is just live the big questions, and they will lead you to the center of my heart."

A few months later, I got a severe retina detachment while playing soccer for my high school and had to lie on my side for 3 days on trains from Winnipeg to Boston, where I received successful surgery. An Armenian couple took me in as a total stranger there, while I convalesced after the operation. They drove me around Boston, and when they drove me by Harvard, I somehow knew that God wanted me to study there. After my MDiv from Princeton, I fulfilled God's will by getting my Harvard doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Christian Origins.

But how could I gain admission? I wasn't that good a high school student. But when I returned to school, God revealed to me that I would attain the highest GPA in the province of Manitoba. My cousin Eldon reminded me decades later that I shared that revelation with him shortly thereafter. I experienced this premonition not out of a sense of pride, but as an incredible gift from God to fulfill His mandate to live the big questions until they led me to the center of His heart. My experience of Spirit baptism did much more then bless me and tame my doubts; it also heightened my intellectual capabilities and gave me "the word of knowledge" (1 Corinthians 12:8) that has led to all the premonitions posted on this thread.

I've been trying to find Speaking in Tongues and Spirit Baptism for half an hour. This is where you mention the three videos. Obviously operator error but I'm stumped, can't find the thread. Can you help? Thanks

 

[Bob Crowley]

Joan shared this verification. At roughly the time Eleanor died, the cuckoo clock in the living room stopped. The same clock had stopped many years previously when her husband Nick suffered a fatal heart attack, shoveling snow and when her son, Nick, Jr,, recently committed suicide, distraught over his failed marriage. These odd coincidences, and especially the dream premonition, convinced her sister Joan that a divine providence was mysteriously at work in the timing of Eleanor's death.

Well, you certainly seem to have had a series of premonitions of various sorts. I don't get "premonitions" but I have had a few spiritual experiences of various sorts, including my father turning up in my bedroom the night he died. He started with an apology for the way he'd treated me, we argued and talked, and at the very end of the episode he gave this almighty, terrifying scream and then just disappeared. It was also obvious something was coming for him.

Now that was nearly 40 years ago in January 1979, and I still remember it. I don't remember dreams. In any case it was too blunt to be a dream. Dreams are usually nonsense when its all said and done, but this was a straight forward conversation in my bedroom. I even asked the question during the proceedings, "What is this!? A dream or something?!" He looked a bit bemused, and replied, "No, it's not a dream. I died tonight."

There have been other experiences, but that was the only one like that.

Your comment about the clock stopping doesn't surprise me. I'm Catholic now, but I used to be Presbyterian. I had a rather outstanding, if sometimes discouraging Presbyterian pastor who had a gift for predicting things, and a gift of wisdom. He said to me one day that that when some people die, "clocks stop". There's one story here that indicates your story isn't unique.

Each time one of my relatives died, a clock stopped: Just one of the haunting stories from Mail readers who tell their experiences of ghostly events surrounding deaths in their families | Daily Mail Online

There's one of those watch and remote control repair stores in a shopping centre near here, and I knew the bloke who owned it was a clock repairer by trade. So one day I dropped in close to closing time, told him what the pastor had said about "clocks stopping". I then asked if he'd ever had a case of anybody coming to him with a clock stopping due to someone dying.

HIs reply? "Many times!" He said most of the time they just needed a bit of a tinker, and they went again. But the fact was they stopped at the very minute someone in the relevant family died. It seems like it might be the hidden secret of the clock repair trade, indicating there's a concealed spiritual hand at work.

I'm not sure what to make of your premonitions, but it's obviously a spiritual gift, with the usual blessing and curse of spiritual gifts. It's one thing to know something seems to be going to happen (blessing, with the proviso of the usual vagueness of these sorts of things - you're just not quite sure, so should you say something or not?), but it's another if you suspect it might be indicating someone you know and care for is going to die (a curse).

I think it's just something you'll have to accept as being part of your being, like breathing. You don't really control that either, as you just go on breathing and take it for granted. But it's there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Likewise you just seem to have been given a gift for premonitions. Just accept it and live with it.

 

[Deadworm]

After a long dormant period, I've decided to reactivate this thread by reporting my latest premonition, which is best categorized as an exercise of the gift of discernment. I recently attended a Full Gospel Businessmen's meeting, where a woman gave a message in tongues. While we waited, this interpretation came to me, "If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face..." This phrase is borrowed from 2 Chronicles 7:14. Then the woman's interpretation began with just those words and her message used 7:14 as a foundation for similar words of admonition.

Ordinarily when 2 Charismatics receive the same interpretation, this is taken as a sign of an authentic interpretation from the Lord. But in my case, with my premonition of the quotation from 2 Chronicles 7:14, came an inner assurance that the message was not inspired by the Spirit. I did not feel free to disrupt the flow of the worship by mentioning this, because in Pentecostal circles, censuring tongues interpretations would be deemed shocking and inappropriate. I believe that when we can't humble ourselves by submitting to discernment, the Holy Spirit often denies us the real thing. For this reason, I'm uncomfortable about attending such services.

 

[Deadworm]

I recently attended a talk by Bruce Van Natan about his miraculous healing. It is perhaps the most miraculous healing ever recorded since the apostolic age and you can read his testimony in the media section of his website: Sweet Bread Ministries

Bruce repaired big lumber trucks in Wisconsin for a living. On the most fateful day of his life, his wife urged him to quit his job that very day and prepare for full time Christian ministry. Bruce ignored her premonitory plea. While working under a big truck, the jack slipped and 100 tons crashed down onto his midsection. His right side was crushed to an inch thick and he was in unspeakable pain. Bruce floated up over his body and saw 2 large angels holding the truck. His organs were devastated, 5 of his major arteries were ruptured, and all his intestines were destroyed. Yet he was still alive! Doctors would later say that there is no recorded instance of anyone surviving such catastrophic injuries. But they said that he would soon die without intestines to digest food.

A Christian named Mr. Carlson felt called to travel from New York to Wisconsin to pray for Bruce. He layed hands on him and offered the Mustard Seed prayer for his healing. Bruce said that this healing touch felt like a powerful electric jolt and he felt like a huge snake was uncoiling in his midsection. In fact, God was performing a creative miracle in which 8+ feet of new intestines were being created, so that Bruce could now digest food and live.

In another premonition, a vacationing Bruce was driving his family down a highway when he felt an urgent impulse to call his alcoholic friend. He suppressed this impulse because his family were sleeping in the car and he didn't want to wake them up. But the impulse grew so strong, he pulled off the highway to call his friend. The shocked friend responded, "No bleeping way!" He had gotten drunk and picked up his gun to commit suicide. But before he pulled the trigger, he challenged God, "If you love me, let me receive a call from Bruce!" He and Bruce had not conversed for at least 6 months. Bruce's call saved his life that day.