The Sinner's Prayer cannot save anyone!

lmnop9876 · May 11, 2006

You have NO idea! You are so wrong here.

am I?
so a person who goes to a 'revival meeting,' hears a moving talk and the emotional music, and follows the rest of the crowd to the front of the building, kneels down in tears and says the sinner's prayer (even thinking perhaps that they're doing it sincerely) than a week later goes on as before, is a Christian? no they're not, they haven't had any work of the Holy Spirit in their hearts, they're just fooled into thinking they've been "saved," and now they've got "eternal security."

Iollain · May 11, 2006

.........and then God will step in and the work on that person will begin.....never underestimate the power of God to lift up a head to Himself.

Splayd · May 11, 2006

There are so many sterotypes and assumptions about each other's beliefs in these forums. Out of curiousity - who actually believes that if someone simply repeats some words, but never does anything else and continues living exactly as before - they are saved? Does anyone here teach that or attend a church that teaches it? I've never heard it taught - but I keep hearing from the Catholics and the Orthodox that the rest of us teach it.

JJB · May 11, 2006

Splayd said:
There are so many sterotypes and assumptions about each other's beliefs in these forums. Out of curiousity - who actually believes that if someone simply repeats some words, but never does anything else and continues living exactly as before - they are saved? Does anyone here teach that or attend a church that teaches it? I've never heard it taught - but I keep hearing from the Catholics and the Orthodox that the rest of us teach it.

Good point, Splayd. It seems the Rcc and Orthodox need to learn more as well.

Iollain · May 11, 2006

Splayd said:
There are so many sterotypes and assumptions about each other's beliefs in these forums. Out of curiousity - who actually believes that if someone simply repeats some words, but never does anything else and continues living exactly as before - they are saved? Does anyone here teach that or attend a church that teaches it? I've never heard it taught - but I keep hearing from the Catholics and the Orthodox that the rest of us teach it.

oh no, most of our sermons at church are about sin and how to stay out of it.

lmnop9876 · May 11, 2006

.........and then God will step in and the work on that person will begin.....never underestimate the power of God to lift up a head to Himself.

i'm not getting your point. i said that if a person says the sinner's prayer without any real regeneration by the Holy Spirit, then thinks they're 'saved' and goes on as before, they've just been lulled into a sense of false security.

There are so many sterotypes and assumptions about each other's beliefs in these forums. Out of curiousity - who actually believes that if someone simply repeats some words, but never does anything else and continues living exactly as before - they are saved? Does anyone here teach that or attend a church that teaches it? I've never heard it taught - but I keep hearing from the Catholics and the Orthodox that the rest of us teach it.

nup, my church doesn't teach or use the sinner's prayer, and we ain't (eastern) Orthodox or (vatican) Catholic.
btw, a joke i heard on the radio (good old abc. ) last night.
a catholic priest, baptist pastor, and jewish rabbi are discussing whose faith has the most converting power. they decide that they'll try to convert a bear to see whose faith is best.
the catholic priest returns with a few bandages and an arm in a sling. [irish accent] "well, i preached the Gospel to that there bear, and he wasn't taking it too well, so i just grabbed me some water and christened that their bear on the spot, and after that, he was calm as a lamb."
baptist pastor returns with a broken leg and some bandages. [souther baptist accent] "well, i preached to the bear, and he wouldn't listen. so i wrestled with that there bear while tellin' him the Gospel. we came to a river, and i dunked him there and then. and, i'll tell you what, that bear was calm as a lamb after that."
"well, how did you go, rabbi" asks the priest when he sees the rabbi in an all-body cast, broken legs, and in a wheel-chair. "well, we'll just say that the bear didn't take too well to my attempts at circumcision."

Iollain · May 11, 2006

i'm not getting your point. i said that if a person says the sinner's prayer without any real regeneration by the Holy Spirit, then thinks they're 'saved' and goes on as before, they've just been lulled into a sense of false security.

Well......some people will run to God if the furnace is up really hot.

jamesMarion · May 12, 2006

If you only recited the words to be able get a free meal, then you did not change your mind. If you changed your mind about who and what Jesus Christ is, and what He has done for you, you are saved. In my personal opinion, every saved human being goes right back to their sinfull life. As God is absolutely righteous, we are absolutely depraved. A trip to the brass laver is just a temporary solution. Death fixes the problem permanently.

vanshan · May 12, 2006

Just an aside:

Why do they call them "altar calls," as most of the churches who perform such manmade traditions, do not have altars? (And can anyone tell me when their demonmination removed the altars, if they ever had them, which have always been present in Christian temples, which can be proven by looking at all Christian architecture prior to the 1500s).

Basil

dhuisjen2 · May 12, 2006

vanshan said:
Just an aside:

Why do they call them "altar calls," as most of the churches who perform such manmade traditions, do not have altars? (And can anyone tell me when their demonmination removed the altars, if they ever had them, which have always been present in Christian temples, which can be proven by looking at all Christian architecture prior to the 1500s).

Basil

FWDIM, those whose spiritual roots go to the Anabaptist tradition -- those who "home schooled" themselves in theology after the Bible became available in their native languages -- originally had their worship in buildings designed for other purposes than worship, thus the absense of the altar. When they started building their own chapels they didn't really recognize a need for an altar as such. The Eucharist could be celebrated with the sacraments passed around to the participants in their seats, off of temporary tables brought in for the purpose if necessary.

The altar call tradition was an element of Wesley's revival preaching in the 1700s. Wesley himself remained to his death devoted to the Anglican Church and concerned with keeping his followers in fellowship with this communion. Anglicans of course always had altars, even if the tents in which Wesley preached didn't. So perhaps he is responsible for the figurative use of the term.

Does this information help, or make any difference?
David

dhuisjen2 · May 12, 2006

P.S. to that:
Whatever else you say about them, Wesley's tent meetings had a serious transforming effect on many of the regions where they went. The cultural force of America's "Bible belt" is something that he deserves a great deal of credit for. People who prayed the prayer went on to seriously dedicate their lives to service of the Lord, and the effect of that remains many generations later. It wasn't called "The Great Awakening" for nothing!
That should address some of your fears about the prayer being too much of a superficial matter in the new believer's life.

holdon · May 12, 2006

Gal328 said:
.....okay, but could you understand why I'm concerned for them?

i am going through hell right now because I let my troubles overcome me.

I have no idea what your personal circumstances are and this is not the place to discuss that, I think.

This thread is about the sinner's prayer. God has never heard a better one.....

vanshan · May 12, 2006

dhuisjen2 said:
Does this information help, or make any difference?
David

Yes, thank you. It's interesting to learn some of these finer details of recent religious history. I like knowing where some of these practices are rooted, because finding where a departure, from previous belief, occured can help us isolate where we may have went wrong in some ways.

Basil

Iollain · May 12, 2006

Don't you people against the sinner's prayer know that we do have a Bible, we do have the parable of the seeds, we realize that all will not be good ground, etc. But we still talk in faith for the good ground who are saved, it is no lie that they will be. We just do not sow seeds of doubt in someones mind. God knows who His people are and we don't, so everyone is God's, we have to presume.

vanshan · May 12, 2006

dhuisjen2 said:
P.S. to that:
Whatever else you say about them, Wesley's tent meetings had a serious transforming effect on many of the regions where they went. The cultural force of America's "Bible belt" is something that he deserves a great deal of credit for. People who prayed the prayer went on to seriously dedicate their lives to service of the Lord, and the effect of that remains many generations later. It wasn't called "The Great Awakening" for nothing!
That should address some of your fears about the prayer being too much of a superficial matter in the new believer's life.

We should all rejoice when God is glorified among us. We should strive to submit to the truth, but God will have mercy on whom He has mercy, so I'm sure some of Wesley's work has helped. If it has caused confusion and left people further from the truth, then to a degree it may be bad as well. It would be better to have one convert to the true faith, than 100 converting to a distorted faith, which in its sickly form can do some harm. An element of truth exists within all Christian groups, to varying degrees, so when Christ is preached, we are better than if He is ignored or denied, but where the fulness of the gospel is maintained, there is true comfort, salvation, and effective treatment for sin.

Basil

Iollain · May 12, 2006

vanshan said:
We should all rejoyce when God is glorified among us. We should strive to submit to the truth, but God will have mercy on whom He has mercy, so I'm sure some of Wesley's work has helped. If it has caused confusion and left people further from the truth, then to a degree it may be bad as well. It would be better to have one convert to the true faith, than 100 converting to a distorted faith, which in its sickly form can do some harm. An element of truth exists within all Christians groups, to varying degrees, so when Christ is preached, we are better than if He is ignored or denied, but where the fulness of the gospel is maintained, there is true comfort, salvation, and effective treatment for sin.

Basil

Amen, thank you for recognizing us.

vanshan · May 12, 2006

Iollain said:
Don't you people against the sinner's prayer know that we do have a Bible, we do have the parable of the seeds, we realize that all will not be good ground, etc. But we still talk in faith for the good ground who are saved, it is no lie that they will be. We just do not sow seeds of doubt in someones mind. God knows who His people are and we don't, so everyone is God's, we have to presume.

For those for "altar calls," do you equip people with what they need after they repent to overcome sin and death, or merely try and secure there attendance at your church so they can receive teachings and intellectual understanding? Where are the holy mysteries God provides to treat the illness of sin? We are saved by grace, but if we deny or refuse God's treatment for sin, which the Church has always provided, then we are like a doctor who sits and explains the diagnosis, as best he or she can, but then gives no treatment to cure the illness. That is a cruel way to treat a patient, which is what we all are. Knowedge is imparted to our minds, but if our hearts are not treated, they remain ill. We need the holy mysteries to treat us in our hearts, so that our mind alone isn't fed, leaving our hearts starving for true spiritual food.

Basil

Iollain · May 12, 2006

vanshan said:
For those for "altar calls," do you equip people with what they need after they repent to overcome sin and death, or merely try and secure there attendance at your church so they can receive teachings and intellectual understanding? Where are the holy mysteries God provides to treat the illness of sin? We are saved by grace, but if we deny or refuse God's treatment for sin, which the Church has always provided, then we are like a doctor who sits and explains the diagnosis, as best he or she can, but then gives no treatment to cure the illness. That is a cruel way to treat a patient, which is what we all are. Knowedge is imparted to our minds, but if our hearts are not treated, they remain ill. We need the holy mysteries to treat us in our hearts, so that our mind alone isn't fed, leaving our hearts starving for true spiritual food.

Basil

I would presume your talking about your Lord's Table....we do not believe in your apostical succession that turns bread and wine into the physical body and blood of Jesus. We do have the Lord's Table and we do baptise, if that's what your talking about.

What we need is the HOly Spirit.

Iollain · May 12, 2006

And yes we do talk to them, we usually have a lunchen after where we get to know them and the pastor always talks to them, he does know the plan he is not stupid.

vanshan · May 12, 2006

Iollain said:
What we need is the HOly Spirit.

Do you think God might have a way He has established to bestow the Divine Grace of the Holy Spirit upon us? It's the Holy Spirit who fills the offering of bread and wine brought to the altar and miraculously fills them, making them the Blood and Body of Christ. It's the Holy Spirit who makes the baptismal waters regenerative, making us rise out of them new creatures in Christ. These things are true spiritual food, and if you don't have them, you have many hungry hearts, even if minds are being instructed. It doesn't matter what you or I believe personally, all that matters is what God has done for our salvation. We are wise when we accept His gifts, and sit at the banquet table Christ has set for us.

Basil

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