The Sign

Funny because I started a fundraiser idea I've had for a week or so, just today. The core message came from reading about September 23 being "the real end." I'll post a link, and even if you don't buy a shirt, take a look at how many other times Christians were certain the end was nigh. And it only has where specific dates were given, which is about a third in the last hundred years where a lot of times just month or a year was claimed to be the end.

www.bonfire.com/i-survived-1

Difficult for it to happen in our time when John was seeing visions about AD70 and the official end of the Old Covenant era (e.g. destroying the temple). Attempting to link it with our times today is kind of humorous to me. Look up some Jonathan Welton stuff. There's a free book you can download called raptureless. It talks about the rapture and all things eschatological.

Peace

Servant232 said:

Up until about two months ago, I had not looked closely into what was being said about 9/23 of this year.

Yom Teruah ~ Begins by the sighting of the new moon in Israel, and that will occur on 9/22 this year, astronomically predicted to be visible. Stellarium

If you go by the date that was set years in advance and don't go by the sighting of the new moon, then 9/21

And .............................................. Ecc 3:15 ! ............?

Then I was inspired to look at a verse#1 for that day, to see what it was, and this is the verse that is found by calculating from the date of the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem on 8/4/70, just as YESHUA had prophesied would happen, recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke, mentioned in John ~ By the 31102 verses in the Bible, the remainder being one of that day's verses.

First, before revealing what is the verse for 9/23/17, some examples of verses for other days in history done by the same method. Since: 1/30/15

• The Greatest Recorded Earthquakes since 1900

The fifth greatest Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as YHWH commanded Moses 50


* 8/4/70 until the sixth greatest

• 2/27/2010 = 708414 days / 31102 ~ The Remainder is 24170

• The 24170th vs. Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest The Temple, and buildest it in three days, Save Thyself. If thou be The Son of God, come down from the cross. 6 - 7

• The 10 Most Intense Atlantic Hurricanes on Record

8/4/70 until = 697616 days / 31102 verses ~ Remainder 13374

8/7/1980

• 5) 'Allen' - 899 millibars ~ 13, 374th vs. Job 21:18 They are as stubble before the Wind, and as chaff that the Storm carrieth away.

• (This hurricane stayed at a category 5 longer than any hurricane in recorded history. It's wind strength was matched only by Camille, which also had sustained winds of 190 mph :0

• 6) 'Camille' - 900 millibars 8/17/1969_693610/31102 ~ 9366th vs. 1Ki 18:24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of YHWH: and HaElohim that answereth by Fire, let Him be HaElohim. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.

• Fires consumed coastal communities, with the exceptions of Bay St. Louis and Waveland.

• 7) 'Katrina' - 902 millibars ~ 22526th vs. Oba 1:15 For the day of YHWH is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

8/4/70 until The largest recorded solar flares

• • 2) X20.0 16/08/89 (700,914 days) ~ 16670 Pro 10:13 In the lips of him that hath understanding Wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.
  • 
    
  • • 3) X17.2 28/10/03 (706,100 days) ~ 21856th vs. Dan 4:18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the Wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.

8/4/70 until 9/23/2017 = 711,179 days

711179 / 31102 ~ Remainder = 26,935

The 26,935th vs. Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same YESHUA, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have Seen Him go into heaven.

On this page there are links to the first ten for each of these events, and the first ten of another.

Click to expand...

What I don't believe: a pre-tribulation rapture, a mid-tribulation rapture, a post tribulation harpazo as most commonly taught, preterism, amillenialism, calvinism, arminianism, dispensationalism, and most every other ism that has been formulated by man.

What I do believe: Jacob's Trouble will last for 1260 days Revelation 12:6 , a time, and times, and half a time Revelation 12:14 , forty-two months Revelation 13:5 _ __ - Isaiah 34:8 Of which 1 year/time is set apart for the controversy of Zion

When YHWH shall build up Zion, He shall appear in His Glory. KJV Psa 102:16

The building up of Zion must occur before Titus 2:13 The Blessed Hope

The truth about Immortality

Grace and Peace in Adonai Yeshua Mashiach

DeaconDean said:

Did anybody see the documentary "The Sign" on DirecTV?

According to it, and several people on the documentary, the Tribulation will kick off, and a fulfillment of Revelation 12 will happen on Sept. 23, 2017.

This stellar alignment:



Virgo, with the moon at her feet, the sun shining on her, Mercury, Venus, Mars, and Saturn, along with the other constellation Leo will form the 12 crowns above her head.

Jupiter moving into the area od her womb is "travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

And this star, known as the "Red Dragon":

View attachment 207821

Is due to pass very close to this alignment, and very close to earth. And when it comes close to earth, asteroids from this star will strike the planet.

All this, coincidently happens when the Jewish year of Jubilee starts. (Sept. 23, 2017)

I'm not saying it will, I'm not saying it won't.

I just have a problem with Revelation 12 being fulfilled before anything else.

Opinions?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting.

My opinion is the "man of sin" has not been revealed yet.

So not seeing how the astrological events some are predicting for 23 Sep fit.

Radagast said:

(updated) That's apparently a picture taken by the IRAS space telescope in 1983. According to some sources which I haven't checked, one of those dots is Saturn. I'm not sure what the picture is meant to prove, exactly.



Well, 100 microns is actually infrared.



Well, thanks. But I'm actually checking the claims, and pointing out that it's rubbish.

Click to expand...

There are quite a few theories out there using varying star and planet combinations.

Revelation 12 is a sign for the children of Israel. How that fits in the scheme of prophecy is unclear to me.

Why would anyone think that Astrology is an appropriate method for interpreting prophecies written in a book that expressly forbids it's practice over, and over, and over again? My wife is into this crap and it's being preached in big evangelical churches, it just goes to show you how sold out they all are.

Other than that, I really like researching all of the various methods of interpretation and the predictions that people make based on them—it really makes me feel a lot more solid in my own views of eschatology which are not very popular these days

DeaconDean said:

Did anybody see the documentary "The Sign" on DirecTV?

According to it, and several people on the documentary, the Tribulation will kick off, and a fulfillment of Revelation 12 will happen on Sept. 23, 2017.

This stellar alignment:



Virgo, with the moon at her feet, the sun shining on her, Mercury, Venus, Mars, and Saturn, along with the other constellation Leo will form the 12 crowns above her head.

Jupiter moving into the area od her womb is "travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

And this star, known as the "Red Dragon":

View attachment 207821

Is due to pass very close to this alignment, and very close to earth. And when it comes close to earth, asteroids from this star will strike the planet.

All this, coincidently happens when the Jewish year of Jubilee starts. (Sept. 23, 2017)

I'm not saying it will, I'm not saying it won't.

I just have a problem with Revelation 12 being fulfilled before anything else.

Opinions?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

There is nothing in the scripture to suggest that this particular alignment of stars and planets will kick off the tribulation. Some people like to play fast and loose with prophetic passages from the scriptures, and the unfortunate side-effect is that when it isn't fulfilled the way they boldly claim it will be, people lose faith. This is also due to a lack of knowledge of the scripture.

I don't think it is important when the tribulation begins, as far as how we should be living our lives. We should be living the same exact way on the day before the tribulation as we should on the day after tribulation. Our focus until the Lord returns should be the great commission, which is to preach the gospel and make disciples of all nations.

In ancient times, people would use the stars etc to navigate, for events etc. I am sure God put them there as signs for us. As for Saturday's coming impending date? Well, I think that maybe there is something behind it but also maybe there is not!

Who knows, except God!

GUANO said:

Why would anyone think that Astrology is an appropriate method for interpreting prophecies written in a book that expressly forbids it's practice over, and over, and over again?

Click to expand...

I guess the next question would be why would anyone think this is astrology?

Greetings, brethren. As we all know in Genesis 1:14 it says: "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

We know that the first coming of our Lord Jesus was announced with the Betlehem star around 2000 years ago. That same star appeared 2000 years earlier when Abraham was born. It is acctually two stars, covering each other and appearing as one star, correct me if I'm wrong. That star is again visible since 2015, i believe. Revelation 12 is talking indeed about the sign that will happen in heaven. If we look at what our Lord said that noone knows the day and the hour, He said that in time before His crucifixtion.He said only Father IN HEAVEN knows. After Jesus raised from the dead, He went to right hand of His Father and in Revelation to John in book of Revelation, He said : Revelation 3:3 says: "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

I am asking you, could it be that Jesus was saying, after He was in heaven with the Father that if we will be watching, we could know when he will come?
It is a lot stuff happening this year, from the eclipse that was on August 21 over USA, which could be modern day Babylon, USA is controlling almost whole world with their trends and their look of what is right or wrong. Eclipse went across it and it could be a sign for them to repent. Now it's starting with the hurricanes, man made or not God tells us in the Bible those will be signs before the end. We definetly should look up for signs, as our God told us to. This year a lot of stuff is coming together. It is 70 years since Israel was declared a nation, and 9 months before sept. 23., on december 23, 2016, they took their rights away again. Is it all a coincidence? Birth pains, 9 months? Also Jupiter stayed in "belly" of constellation Virgo for 9 months. On sept. 23 it will go out of the "belly". Not only that, but on 21 sept. 2017, United Nations will celebrate Peace and Security for year 2017. And you know what Bible says in 1Thesselonians 5:3 :"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

I do not know when our Lord Jesus will return, but I want your opinion on this. I have less people to talk about it, so I found this forum and I hope some souls that understand Bible the way Holy Spirit is trying to let us see it. We should study the word says 1Timothy 2:15. We need to brainstorm and see joy in studying the word our God left us with! But most important is to share the gospel and bring people to Jesus, because He is the only way! Either if He is coming tommorow or in 100 years, we need to stay true to Him and try to be more like Him every day of our life. Let me know what y'all think, brethren and may God bless you all in Jesus name!

Goatee said:

In ancient times, people would use the stars etc to navigate, for events etc. I am sure God put them there as signs for us. As for Saturday's coming impending date? Well, I think that maybe there is something behind it but also maybe there is not!

Who knows, except God!

Click to expand...

Good point. Which is the difference between astrology and astronomy.

SeventyOne said:

I guess the next question would be why would anyone think this is astrology?

Click to expand...

Pretty simple, actually.

Astrology, definition:

the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.

Click to expand...

Yes, this is astrology.

DeaconDean said:

Never said it was or wasn't.

My problem in all this is the relating that Revelation 12 is the very first thing to be fulfilled in regards to eschatology and mainly the great tribulation.

Especially when most say we have 6 days before all this is to occur.

If anybody has DirecTV, this is broadcast on Audience channel. (239)

You can also youtube it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

What makes you sure the Great Tribulation has not yet started? If your family lived in any one of the Muslim nations experiencing civil wars as a Christian, you most likely would be suffering persecution in the form of murder, torture, rape, exile, etc. Millions have suffered this. We are protected, evil is restrained over here and terrorism is spreading with incidences here and there but it is not extreme. To them, it is. And you must realize also that most of Biblical history centers around Israel. Jerusalem will be the stumbling block -- it is and has been. The two witnesses in Israel may pop up any day and this may be the time during between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur when the 144k are sealed, yet not until after a rapture of the Church, but before the real cataclysmic events occur. I always believed that we would have to endure part of the GT because I think the last trumpet is #7 which makes me a Mid-Tribber. But I could be wrong. I always thought the GT was 3 1/2 years but maybe this first 3 1/2 years has just about transpired and the second 3 1/2 is about to start? Or it could be that the actual 1260 days will end on Sept 26 and then Israel will be left to endure the remaining 75 days. (1335-1260 = 75) It's hard to figure if the trumpets blow quickly in succession and then we see the accumulative events overlap. The 5 months of demon locusts torture should fall within the 3 1/2 years as well as the Witnesses preaching. Are they already there. I thought maybe that 15-year old kid with amazing visions may have been one since many Rabbis were taking him seriously.
That all said, you must know Revelation cannot be read chronologically and so this event in Chapter 12 does not necessarily have to come after any other events. But remember the Blood Moons that came and went?
Well, the 1st Blood moon on April 15, 2014 happens to be 1257 days prior to 9-23-2017, (which is why I brought up 9-26-2017 above). Also, problems started to occur right around that time when we withdrew troops in Iraq and ISIS formed and spread. But there are also 80+ terrorist groups who could be preparing to ignite an all out Jihad in over 80 countries where they have cells any day. Kim Jung Un could press a button this month. The Middle East is on fire, in chaos and we suffer little over here.
And don't worry about the mocking and the doubters, they seem to have lost hope that He will return someday because of their lists of historical failed returns thus far.
When the Church does leave, that means the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will be taken out of the way and all hell will brake loose. Evil will be multiplied in everyone's life - brothers against brothers. There will be no good to hold unto when God let's them go to their own demise. We'll see soon how it all unfolds.

Neogaia777 said:

The future is unwritten to me, so I stay out of stuff like this, I believe the future is what we make of it,

Click to expand...

I have heard people say this before "the future is what you make of it"

Does this mean your actions can shape the events of this world? If so, does it not contradict the fact that the future is all ready written and God knows it?

Or, does it mean that as the future unfolds you continue to make adjustments in your life to correspond with the way the future is unfolding and thus making your life based on this?

Or, can we just say that we should live our lives, making decisions, working, worshiping and all that, as if we are going to live to be 100 and when the scriptures unfold..... they unfold?

Neogaia777 said:

and I still hold out hope for humanity yet... Not to save itself, but delay judgment till a later time, and buy us more time...

Click to expand...

I don't have much hope for humanity. The world is corrupt to the core. Even in the lives of honest saved Christians.

I do believe that IF there was a big rally and revival.... The Lord would tarry.... I just don't have a lot of faith in that happening. Not in the West anyway.

Radagast said:

It's much more common than that, actually. Every few years by my calculation.

Click to expand...

Actually, I saw a person discussing that exact point. They discovered that the occurrences that align with Rev. 12.... all of them at once..... only happened 6000 years ago, give or take.

There are some really good video's on this topic. The three that I watched were by gentlemen who emphatically stated that this is not a prediction of the Rapture. It is only a sign that coincides with Rev. 12 and the Jubilee year of Israel.

Thing is... what ever it is... if you are saved... you have no worries.

Radagast said:

There is no star called "Red Dragon," and there is no star "coming close to earth."

The simplest explanation for the prophecy is that it is just like every other false end-time prophecy. There have been quite a few in my lifetime. Remember the blood moon thing from a few years ago? Harold Camping in 2011? The 2012 thing?

Click to expand...

True enough... at least it is getting people to investigate the bible. That can never be a bad thing.

GUANO said:

Why would anyone think that Astrology is an appropriate method for interpreting prophecies written in a book that expressly forbids it's practice over, and over, and over again? My wife is into this crap and it's being preached in big evangelical churches, it just goes to show you how sold out they all are.

Other than that, I really like researching all of the various methods of interpretation and the predictions that people make based on them—it really makes me feel a lot more solid in my own views of eschatology which are not very popular these days

Click to expand...

There is a difference between astrology and astronomy.

God gave us the lights of the heavens for "signs, seasons, days and years".

nonaeroterraqueous said:

Pretty simple, actually.

Astrology, definition:


Yes, this is astrology.

Click to expand...

Since it doesn't fit that definition, not only is it not astrology, but your understanding is demonstrably lacking.

Servant232 said:

Up until about two months ago, I had not looked closely into what was being said about 9/23 of this year.

Yom Teruah ~ Begins by the sighting of the new moon in Israel, and that will occur on 9/22 this year, astronomically predicted to be visible. Stellarium

If you go by the date that was set years in advance and don't go by the sighting of the new moon, then 9/21

And .............................................. Ecc 3:15 ! ............?

Then I was inspired to look at a verse#1 for that day, to see what it was, and this is the verse that is found by calculating from the date of the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem on 8/4/70, just as YESHUA had prophesied would happen, recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke, mentioned in John ~ By the 31102 verses in the Bible, the remainder being one of that day's verses.

First, before revealing what is the verse for 9/23/17, some examples of verses for other days in history done by the same method. Since: 1/30/15

• The Greatest Recorded Earthquakes since 1900

The fifth greatest Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as YHWH commanded Moses 50


* 8/4/70 until the sixth greatest

• 2/27/2010 = 708414 days / 31102 ~ The Remainder is 24170

• The 24170th vs. Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest The Temple, and buildest it in three days, Save Thyself. If thou be The Son of God, come down from the cross. 6 - 7

• The 10 Most Intense Atlantic Hurricanes on Record

8/4/70 until = 697616 days / 31102 verses ~ Remainder 13374

8/7/1980

• 5) 'Allen' - 899 millibars ~ 13, 374th vs. Job 21:18 They are as stubble before the Wind, and as chaff that the Storm carrieth away.

• (This hurricane stayed at a category 5 longer than any hurricane in recorded history. It's wind strength was matched only by Camille, which also had sustained winds of 190 mph :0

• 6) 'Camille' - 900 millibars 8/17/1969_693610/31102 ~ 9366th vs. 1Ki 18:24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of YHWH: and HaElohim that answereth by Fire, let Him be HaElohim. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.

• Fires consumed coastal communities, with the exceptions of Bay St. Louis and Waveland.

• 7) 'Katrina' - 902 millibars ~ 22526th vs. Oba 1:15 For the day of YHWH is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

8/4/70 until The largest recorded solar flares

• • 2) X20.0 16/08/89 (700,914 days) ~ 16670 Pro 10:13 In the lips of him that hath understanding Wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.
  • 
    
  • • 3) X17.2 28/10/03 (706,100 days) ~ 21856th vs. Dan 4:18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the Wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.

8/4/70 until 9/23/2017 = 711,179 days

711179 / 31102 ~ Remainder = 26,935

The 26,935th vs. Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same YESHUA, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have Seen Him go into heaven.

On this page there are links to the first ten for each of these events, and the first ten of another.

Click to expand...

• The Moon

The diameter of the Moon is 2159.14062 miles.. The verse number of the scriptures consecutive by miles from Genesis 1:1 that this number lands in, Is

• 1) The 2160th vs. Exodus 23:15

• Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat Unleavened Bread Seven days, as I commanded thee, In the Time Appointed of the New Moon (chodesh) Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and None shall appear before Me empty

The diameter of the Moon without the decimal.

• 2) 215914062/31102 Remainder = 3978th vs. Numbers 9:12

• They shall leave None of it unto the Morning, nor break any bone of it: According to all the ordinances of 'The Passover' they shall keep it.

(1+2)

• 3) 2160+3978 ~ 6,138th vs. Joshua 12:7 And these are the kings of the country which Joshua and the children of Israel smote on this side Jordan on the west, from Baalgad in the valley of Lebanon even unto the mount Halak, that goeth up to Seir; which Joshua gave unto the tribes of Israel for a possession According to their Divisions;

1) Unleavened Bread - Time Appointed - The New Moon - None

2) None - (Morning) - According - Ordinances - Passover

3) According - Divisions

• (Chapter + Verse)

• 1) 23+15 = 38

• 2) 9+12 = 21

• 3) 12+7 = 19

(19*2) 38

~~~~~~~

• The Earth

The circumference of the Earth north to south through the poles is 24,859.82 miles, the verse number that this number lands in, is

• 1) The 24,860th vs. Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the Whole Earth gē; until the ninth hour.

The circumference of the Earth without decimal.

• 2) 2485982/31102 Remainder = 28,924th vs. 2 Corinthians 7:7 And not by his coming only, but by the consolation wherewith he was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your Mourning, your fervent mind toward me; so that I rejoiced the More.

(1+2)

• 3) 24860+28924 = 53784/31102 Remainder = 22,682nd vs. Micah 7:17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of The Earth Erets: they shall be afraid of YAHUWAH Eloheynu, and shall fear because of thee.

1) The Earth - sixth - ninth = 3 hours ((On Passover))

2) (Mourning - More)

3) The Earth

• (Chapter+Verse)

• 1) 15+33 = 48

• 2) 7+7 = 14

• 3) 7+17 = 24 Hours in a day.

(24*2) 48

24-3 = 21

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