LDS The Second Mohammed

[Rescued One]

“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us -- ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ” [1]
[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T. B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W. W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”
Joseph Smith, Founder of Mormonism Said: "I Will Be a Second Mohammed"!

 

[jasonMalloy1999]

“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us -- ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ” [1]
[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T. B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W. W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”
Joseph Smith, Founder of Mormonism Said: "I Will Be a Second Mohammed"!

meaning.not being rude just confused and interested in this

 

[TLSITD]

There a lot of similarities between Muhammad and Islam and Joseph Smith and Mormonism. It wouldn't surprise me if they both received their "revelations" or inspiration from the same demon masquerading as an angel of light. It's sad how many millions of people were and are still being deceived by these two men.

 

[dzheremi]

Wow. That's quite a find. So much for the objection I've read here from Mormons that people only compare their religion to Islam to evoke a negative bias against it in a post-9/11 world.

 

[He is the way]

“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us -- ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ” [1]
[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T. B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W. W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”
Joseph Smith, Founder of Mormonism Said: "I Will Be a Second Mohammed"!

Did Joseph Smith really use the term "second Mohammad"? Thomas B. Marsh said he did in a disclosure printed on page 167 of History of the Church which I read. However in an affidavit of Orson Hyde on the same page we read: "The most of the statements in the foregoing disclosure I know to be true; the remainder I believe to be true." Thomas Marsh was no longer a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints when he made this disclosure. I wouldn't take Fawn Brodie's word on anything. Her research is pathetic. She went to Palmyra to do research on whether or not there was a religious revival at the time Joseph Smith said there was. However Joseph Smith lived in Manchester at that time and not in Palmyra. Anyhow Marsh's statement was likely a fabrication because he was disgruntled and hostile to the church.

 

[Rescued One]

Did Joseph Smith really use the term "second Mohammad"? Thomas B. Marsh said he did in a disclosure printed on page 167 of History of the Church which I read. However in an affidavit of Orson Hyde on the same page we read: "The most of the statements in the foregoing disclosure I know to be true; the remainder I believe to be true." Thomas Marsh was no longer a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints when he made this disclosure. I wouldn't take Fawn Brodie's word on anything. Her research is pathetic. She went to Palmyra to do research on whether or not there was a religious revival at the time Joseph Smith said there was. However Joseph Smith lived in Manchester at that time and not in Palmyra. Anyhow Marsh's statement was likely a fabrication because he was disgruntled and hostile to the church.

Being disgruntled with your church does NOT make an ex-Mormon a liar. But that's okay. You can't prove he didn't say it. Yet we all know that you only believe what your church tells you to believe.

 

[Peter1000]

There a lot of similarities between Muhammad and Islam and Joseph Smith and Mormonism. It wouldn't surprise me if they both received their "revelations" or inspiration from the same demon masquerading as an angel of light. It's sad how many millions of people were and are still being deceived by these two men.

There are a lot of similarities between Islam and Christianity too, in fact more similarities than between Islam and the Church of Jesus Christ.

but the main difference between Islam and all forms of Christianity is that Islam teaches that Jesus was just another prophet in a long line of prophets of God. We all teach that Jesus is the Messiah and savior of the world.

Any other comparisons are smallish in nature and not important even if there is some matches.

 

[dzheremi]

There are a lot of similarities between Islam and Christianity too, in fact more similarities than between Islam and the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[TLSITD]

There are a lot of similarities between Islam and Christianity too, in fact more similarities than between Islam and the Church of Jesus Christ.

but the main difference between Islam and all forms of Christianity is that Islam teaches that Jesus was just another prophet in a long line of prophets of God. We all teach that Jesus is the Messiah and savior of the world.

Any other comparisons are smallish in nature and not important even if there is some matches.

(The reason that Islam has similarities to Christianity and Judaism is that Muhammad copied---poorly---a lot of his ideas and teachings from the Jews and Christians living in the region (Medina, I believe it was), including their apocrypha.)

 

[He is the way]

Being disgruntled with your church does NOT make an ex-Mormon a liar. But that's okay. You can't prove he didn't say it. Yet we all know that you only believe what your church tells you to believe.

We don't concur with with a lot of what ex-members say. Why would we?

 

[Peter1000]

See post #9 by TLSITD

 

[dzheremi]

See post #9 by TLSITD

That doesn't say anything about your claim that there are more similarities between Christianity and Islam than between Mormonism and Islam.

Please actually back up your claim.

 

[He is the way]

That doesn't say anything about your claim that there are more similarities between Christianity and Islam than between Mormonism and Islam.

Please actually back up your claim.

Comparison Chart - Islam and Christianity - NAMB

Fundamental differences between Islam and Mormonism include, but are not limited to:

• Mormonism believes that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, together with a wife, referred to as "Heavenly Mother" by some Latter-day Saints (although this view is not made explicit in Mormon scripture). Islam emphatically rejects these principles.
• Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; he is referred to as "a god" in their religion. Islam rejects this idea, believing that Jesus was a mortal being chosen to be a Prophet of God, no different from Moses, Abraham, Muhammad, or other prophets of God throughout time, except in that he was raised to heaven, like Elijah and Enoch.
• Islam insists that only God is eternal; everything else was created by him ex nihilo. Mormonism denies this, insisting that matter and intelligence are equally eternal, and that God only "organized" them, rather than creating them out of nothing.
• Mormonism believes that Satan was a "spirit son" of God named Lucifer, whose plan to negate human free will was rejected, leading him to rebel.[18] Islam rejects this, stating that Iblis, a jinn, refused to prostrate himself before Adam upon God's command, causing God to expel him from his presence, after which he became Satan (or "Shayṭān").[19]
• Islam believes that the Angels are beings created by God from nūr (holy light), who lack free will and serve him unhesitatingly. Mormonism sees Angels as humans in spirit form (before birth or after death) or resurrected (immortal) humans. Human spirits who follow Satan may be considered Satan's angels, but the term "angel" usually refers to those who follow God.[20]
• Mormonism believes that its adherents may become "gods" in the next life, through following its teachings and receiving certain necessary ordinances. Islam rejects this position.[citation needed]
• Mormonism believes that married couples in the next life will continue to beget children;[21] Islam rejects this principle.
• In addition to angels and human beings, Islam believes in a third group of intelligent beings, the jinn. Mormonism ultimately believes in only one group of beings in various stages of existence as disembodied spirits or spirits embodied in mortal or resurrected bodies.
• Islam believes that one may become a full-fledged Muslim simply by reciting its profession of faith, the Shahada, while believing sincerely in its teachings.[22] Mormonism believes that the receipt of a series of sacramental ordinances, including baptism and confirmation, are required to become a Mormon.
• Mormonism believes in the existence of a Priesthood unique to them, conferred by ordination, which is required to administer sacraments or otherwise officially act in the name of God. Islam rejects this idea.
• Islam proclaims that its prophet Muhammad was the "seal of the prophets"[23] and no further prophets would come after him. Mormonism, while believing that Muhammad was a great and inspired teacher, does not consider him a prophet;[24] it does believe Joseph Smith and his successors (the latest of whom is Russell M. Nelson) to be prophets, which Islam rejects.[citation needed]
• Mormonism erects temples throughout the world, where special ordinances are performed for both the living and the dead. Islam does not accept this principle.
• Mormonism bans coffee and tea, while Islam does not. Mormonism also prohibits tobacco, which is forbidden in Islam by various fatawa but not directly in the Quran.
• Islam bans certain kinds of meat, while Mormonism says that all meats may be eaten, but should be used in moderation. Islam also requires that all meats be slaughtered in accordance with prescribed rituals similar to those of Judaism. Mormonism rejects this notion.
• While Mormonism permits the depiction of God and his prophets in images, Islam expressly bans any depiction of Allah as a form of idolatry; in addition, the majority Sunni portion of it bans the depiction of any prophet of Islam, including Jesus.
• Whereas Mormonism has a rigid hierarchical structure, culminating in a single President of the Church, Sunni Islam doesn't recognize any religious authority besides Allah himself and his prophets, most prominently the latest Prophet Muhammad; Shia Islam holds the same view on God, however regards the rightful Imams, eminent descendants from the family of the Prophet Muhammad, as both religious and secular authorities.
• Islam requires a pilgrimage to Mecca as part of its religion from those who can afford, while Mormonism does not have any corresponding imperative, although it does encourage members to travel to the nearest temple at least once in their lifetime (and more often if circumstances permit), for the receipt of certain sacred ordinances there.
• Islam still permits polygamy under certain specified conditions. While there are some fundamentalist sects of Mormonism that permit unrestricted polygamy, mainstream Mormonism (having previously embraced the principle) officially banned it in 1890.

From: Islam and Mormonism - Wikipedia

 

[Peter1000]

That doesn't say anything about your claim that there are more similarities between Christianity and Islam than between Mormonism and Islam.

Please actually back up your claim.

TLSITD'S answer is my claim. See on post 9 again. As you can tell, I am not that interested in anything Islam.