The Second Amendment

[JimR-OCDS]

And yet, the same government you just talked about couldn't defeat the Taliban after 20 years. That's a fact. What you laid out is theoretical.

They did defeat the Taliban who were driven into Pakistan as long as the US Military was in Afghanistan.

Look to Syria to see what a government would do against an armed uprising. Don't assume
for a minute that if there was an armed revolt here in the US, the government wouldn't act
as ruthlessly. You can also look at what the military did to the Davidians in Waco Texas.

An armed revolt here in the use would be put down very quickly

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And our military would have to be out to slaughter its own citizens if they were using those things here. When the National Guard is called out, they are there to restore order. But if they started leveling buildings with tanks and fighter jets, they'd be proving to the public that they have turned against the people of this country and that would only persuade even more people to resist. However, I highly doubt that those in the military (our neighbors and relatives) would carry out orders to level buildings or entire cities here in America. They'd know it was obviously wrong.

Our government has already slaughtered innocent people. Look at what happened to the
Davidians in Waco Texas. Women and children were killed by the US Military

 

[Aldebaran]

Our government has already slaughtered innocent people. Look at what happened to the
Davidians in Waco Texas. Women and children were killed by the US Military

Right, and it stimulated further resolve amongst conservatives. It certainly didn't cause gun owners around the country to say, "Ok, we give up. It's no use thinking we have any real power". Instead, gun sales increased ever since. Same thing when 9/11 happened, and obama's threatened gun ban, and the 2020 BLM riots.

And yes, people have actually defended themselves, although that's never as widely publicized as criminal activity is.

 

[Yarddog]

It has to do with civilian right to keep in check federal government.

Nope. The militias were under the federal government's control.

 

[d taylor]

did i

Nope. The militias were under the federal government's control.

I did not mention militias, read what i said civilian rights.

 

[Yarddog]

did i


I did not mention militias, read what i said civilian rights.

The civilians made up the militias.

 

[Yarddog]

did i


I did not mention militias, read what i said civilian rights.

The right to bear arms had nothing to do with keeping the federal government in check because the Constitution forbids the taking up of arms against the state or federal government.

 

[d taylor]

The right to bear arms had nothing to do with keeping the federal government in check because the Constitution forbids the taking up of arms against the state or federal government.

Tell that to Confederates, why were so many not tried and executed.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Right, and it stimulated further resolve amongst conservatives. It certainly didn't cause gun owners around the country to say, "Ok, we give up. It's no use thinking we have any real power". Instead, gun sales increased ever since. Same thing when 9/11 happened, and obama's threatened gun ban, and the 2020 BLM riots.

And yes, people have actually defended themselves, although that's never as widely publicized as criminal activity is.

A person defending themselves against another person vs defending themselves against the
US Military is far different.

The former is doable, not so the latter.

 

[Aldebaran]

A person defending themselves against another person vs defending themselves against the
US Military is far different.

The former is doable, not so the latter.

It's hardly the military that people need to worry about here. It's militarized SWAT teams from your local police department, or the county sheriff, or the FBI, or any number of other agencies that have become militarized with their own SWAT teams. Even the CDC has been given authority to confiscate property and shut down industry. If you want to see an exhaustive list of agencies with SWAT teams, click the link: List of Special Response Units in the United States

These are who people need to worry about here in the USA, and not the Army, Air Force, Marines, or Navy.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It's hardly the military that people need to worry about here. It's militarized SWAT teams from your local police department, or the county sheriff, or the FBI, or any number of other agencies that have become militarized with their own SWAT teams. Even the CDC has been given authority to confiscate property and shut down industry. If you want to see an exhaustive list of agencies with SWAT teams, click the link: List of Special Response Units in the United States

These are who people need to worry about here in the USA, and not the Army, Air Force, Marines, or Navy.

But local SWAT teams can be overrun by a large enough militia group and the governors would call
in the National Guard and the Feds would even send troops to put them down.

Pray this never happens because what you see in Syria would be what we would end up with here
only 10 times worse.

 

[Aldebaran]

But local SWAT teams can be overrun by a large enough militia group and the governors would call
in the National Guard and the Feds would even send troops to put them down.

Pray this never happens because what you see in Syria would be what we would end up with here
only 10 times worse.

Indeed, we should pray it never happens. But as long as people keep going along with every power grab the government implements, the easier it will be to make the people submit to whatever tyranny comes our way. They just do it a little at a time, and convince us that it's for our own good, and most people will accept it.

 

[Yarddog]

Tell that to Confederates, why were so many not tried and executed.

What did the Confederates have to do with the making of the 2nd amendment? Many CSA officials could have been tried for treason but leniency was given.

 

[Arcangl86]

Tell that to Confederates, why were so many not tried and executed.

Because President Johnson issued a general amnesty.

 

[Paradox.79]

Many of the people you flame as "gun nuts" are former military and police, and are taking an interest in what is going on in this country because they've seen what is happening from the inside.

Know there nut...for cops and military and I know quite few do not have a problem common sence gun laws...note I said common sence gun laws...not ban. And plenty of country's do that...AND IT WORKS. Would you like a list of every country that allows guns but insists on common sence gun laws and they have less violent crime and you do not see mass shootings.

 

[Paradox.79]

what i find interesting is those same people have no explanation as to why we lost in afghanistan, yet destroying US citizens in a civil war would be so easy. I guess tanks and f15s only miss their targets in the middle east, but never miss on American soil.

The people of the middle east have lived in constant combat for over 1000 years...the land they live in is perfect for guerrilla warfare. And in the united states the majority of them today panics if there cell phone does not work. The majority of Americans are soft. Being soft in the middle easts gets you dead.

 

[Aldebaran]

Know there nut...for cops and military and I know quite few do not have a problem common sence gun laws...note I said common sence gun laws...not ban. And plenty of country's do that...AND IT WORKS. Would you like a list of every country that allows guns but insists on common sence gun laws and they have less violent crime and you do not see mass shootings.

I'll name one for you that can't stop the violence no matter what bans (uh, I mean common sense whatever) they impose. Doesn't cause them to admit they were wrong though: Knives taken off supermarket shelves in New Zealand after terrorist attack

 

[Aldebaran]

The people of the middle east have lived in constant combat for over 1000 years...the land they live in is perfect for guerrilla warfare. And in the united states the majority of them today panics if there cell phone does not work. The majority of Americans are soft. Being soft in the middle easts gets you dead.

How would you suggest that Americans "harden" up as far as mindset is concerned?

 

[Paradox.79]

How would you suggest that Americans "harden" up as far as mindset is concerned?

I do not know...I know police and soldiers emts for that matter have a certain degree of hardness. But most Americans care more about there cell phone that the world at large. The reason any type of right wing gun part would never win a civil war is because most Americans even the poorest, have food clothing, entertainment. Its how Rome controlled Rome. The Emperors made sure the people were fed clothed and entertained and it worked for several hundred years. There is some truth in what the right says. But there is a bigger truth, the majority of people have roof over there head, food in there stomach, cell phones and internet. There not gonna sacrifice all of that for the gun lobby I am sorry. The right does not have the numbers that is plain in simple. I honestly do not care. Society could collapse and go back to dark ages and I would be fine. I know how to hunt track fish, i know which plants to eat and not eat. I know my kids can take care of themselves. I am liberal enough to say that we a degree of gun control that can keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable. I am not worried about criminals shooting up schools. Other countries allow gun ownership, and common sence gun laws...it works. It might have something to do with these countries being small...but it works. We have over 300 million americans each one demanding something different....meaning nothing is ever accomplished