The Second Amendment

[DaisyDay]

Avoiding the fact that the officer believed it to be a gun is not helpful to the truth.

Pretending that that is even remotely what I'm doing is decidedly unhelpful to the truth.

 

[disciple Clint]

And he knew that he had no gun to put down which was the instruction he was given. He had his wallet to show his is. Even fully functioning brains can be temporarily confused when startled. The cops were confused but you excuse them even though in their confusion they killed an innocent man. Their immediate response was to shoot the guy until he was dead.

So after exploring all the facts, was there a criminal conviction of the officers? That should provide all the evidence that is required for any reasonable person.

 

[disciple Clint]

Ah so I can't do anything If I fear for my life, but the police are free to shoot if they're in fear of their life.

Got it.

394 Police officers were killed in the line of duty last year, 5 black people were killed under uncertain circumstances, which one has the most reason to be in fear for their life. Simple once you look at the facts, isn't it.

 

[Gene2memE]

Police Accountability Tool — Mapping Police Violence

 

[morningstar2651]

See how easy it is to make decisions after the event when all the facts are known and someone can sit around a week while that person and five other people discuss the event and decide what the officer should have done BUT when you think a gun is pointed at you there is no time to sit back, get all the fact, contemplate what the possible potential actions could be and select the best one.

I think it's pretty clear that the state's power and authority are more important to you than the rights of the people that live in that society. You appear to believe that a person's rights and life can justifiably be ended if a law enforcement officer feels unsafe.

I continue to argue that it is very clear that the person that aimed a gun at an unarmed person and shot them is the dangerous one, and that the person that was shot is the victim.

Perhaps one day you too will be shot and killed because an officer mistakenly thought you were too dangerous, and someone else will speak up to defend your murderer. They'll say how it's your fault for not complying when someone threatens to kill you.

 

[morningstar2651]

So after exploring all the facts, was there a criminal conviction of the officers? That should provide all the evidence that is required for any reasonable person.

...have you ever heard of Rodney King?

The LA riots happened because the police officers that beat him nearly to death on video were acquitted.

 

[morningstar2651]

394 Police officers were killed in the line of duty last year, 5 black people were killed under uncertain circumstances, which one has the most reason to be in fear for their life. Simple once you look at the facts, isn't it.

Police killed 1,021 people last year.

 

[disciple Clint]

I think it's pretty clear that the state's power and authority are more important to you than the rights of the people that live in that society. You appear to believe that a person's rights and life can justifiably be ended if a law enforcement officer feels unsafe.

I continue to argue that it is very clear that the person that aimed a gun at an unarmed person and shot them is the dangerous one, and that the person that was shot is the victim.

Perhaps one day you too will be shot and killed because an officer mistakenly thought you were too dangerous, and someone else will speak up to defend your murderer. They'll say how it's your fault for not complying when someone threatens to kill you.

Thanks for your thought but I follow the commands of the police, I do not resist arrest, I do not take actions that cause the officer to believe that I am about to shoot him or her. I am as safe as a babe in my mothers arms and so is anyone else who conducts themselves as I do.

 

[disciple Clint]

Police killed 1,021 people last year.

That figure has nothing to do with what we are talking about, it is like blaming the officer who kept a girl from being killed by killing the assaulter. Police do need to use deadly force to save the innocent.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Thanks for your thought but I follow the commands of the police, I do not resist arrest, I do not take actions that cause the officer to believe that I am about to shoot him or her. I am as safe as a babe in my mothers arms and so is anyone else who conducts themselves as I do.

Philandro Castile would like to object.

 

[DaisyDay]

So after exploring all the facts, was there a criminal conviction of the officers? That should provide all the evidence that is required for any reasonable person.

Do you really believe that justice always prevails? That what is was meant to be?

 

[Always in His Presence]

394 Police officers were killed in the line of duty last year, 5 black people were killed under uncertain circumstances, which one has the most reason to be in fear for their life. Simple once you look at the facts, isn't it.

QFT!

In my case, my interaction, my weapon was already drawn (holding the person at bay), I am a minority male with a gun on a white guy. The officers came out of their cars hard and fast - told me to put the weapon down. I did. They told me to get on my knees - I did. They tackled my butt and three of them handcuffed me. I did not resist, didn't scream about my rights - just followed their orders.

Guess what?! I'm still alive - I did not get arrested, in fact they thanked me. I was a little sore and had a chin scrape, but I never lodged a complaint, never sued them. Why? Because they were not wrong, they were protecting their lives, the guy I had the gun on and mine.

 

[Belk]

Thanks for your thought but I follow the commands of the police, I do not resist arrest, I do not take actions that cause the officer to believe that I am about to shoot him or her. I am as safe as a babe in my mothers arms and so is anyone else who conducts themselves as I do.

Do tell.

Shooting of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

 

[atpollard]

Ah so I can't do anything If I fear for my life, but the police are free to shoot if they're in fear of their life.

Got it.

The rule of thumb is to do whatever the person pointing a gun at you orders you to do. This applies to both Police pointing a gun at you and criminals pointing a gun at you. In both cases, ignoring the instructions of the person with the gun carries the risk of getting shot.

Someone with a gun ordered someone to stop reaching for an unknown object. That reaching person exercised their right to ignore the command and to continue to reach for an unknown object. The person with the gun carried out on the implied threat of pointing a gun in the first place.

I think the driver has to accept his share of the responsibility for getting shot by refusing to do as he was told. I think the police officer lacks the temperament to hold that position and was far too nervous given the situation. He could have backed out of immediate danger and relied on the support from other officers already on the scene. The officer failed in his obligation to deescalate and the driver failed in his duty to keep his hands in plain sight at all times.

It required the failure of both men to follow their training (as police and as a gun carrier) to cause this result.

 

[Belk]

The rule of thumb is to do whatever the person pointing a gun at you orders you to do. This applies to both Police pointing a gun at you and criminals pointing a gun at you. In both cases, ignoring the instructions of the person with the gun carries the risk of getting shot.

Someone with a gun ordered someone to stop reaching for an unknown object. That reaching person exercised their right to ignore the command and to continue to reach for an unknown object. The person with the gun carried out on the implied threat of pointing a gun in the first place.

I think the driver has to accept his share of the responsibility for getting shot by refusing to do as he was told. I think the police officer lacks the temperament to hold that position and was far too nervous given the situation. He could have backed out of immediate danger and relied on the support from other officers already on the scene. The officer failed in his obligation to deescalate and the driver failed in his duty to keep his hands in plain sight at all times.

It required the failure of both men to follow their training (as police and as a gun carrier) to cause this result.

What about the people who do what they are told and still get shot?

Video shows trooper shooting unarmed man, South Carolina police say | CNN

Perhaps it is time to quit making traffic stops a life or death situation?

 

[atpollard]

Perhaps it is time to quit making traffic stops a life or death situation?

Traffic Stops ARE a life or death situation. More police are shot during traffic stops than any other call except "Domestic Disturbance". Every traffic stop is potentially a felon with an illegal gun ready to shoot a police officer focused on a brake light or a speeding ticket. Sixty times per year, that is exactly how an officer gets shot and 12 of them die. One gets shot every week and one dies every month. The officer approaching your car knows those statistics. Is this HIS week? His month?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Perhaps it is time to quit making traffic stops a life or death situation?

Do you know how many police officers are killed or wounded while making a traffic stop?

Do a quick search - look at the video's. Two of the most dangerous circumstances for police are domestic violence calls and traffic stops.

The Hazards of Traffic Stops

Conducted with everything from sunny smiles to shows of force, thousands of traffic stops take place daily across America's highways and byways. These detentions are effected by officers whose tactics are often sounder than those of their predecessors and whose patrol vehicles sport state-of-the-art safety features. Yet the traffic stop remains one of the most dangerous aspects of police work.
​

Ever wonder why police touch the drivers rear brake light?

Originally, another reason why cops touch tail lights was to leave their fingerprints on the vehicle. In case the officer found himself in a dangerous situation while pulling over the subject vehicle, fingerprint evidence would prove that he or she was present at the scene. The fingerprints would only be utilized if the interaction between the driver and the cop led to a criminal investigation, like a car accident or shooting. However, this isn’t always a sure-fire way to help an investigation some since the fingerprints can be smudged or tampered with, as well as washed away by rain or snow.

More often than not, there are better ways for police to obtain evidence from a vehicular crime scene than the fingerprints on the car.
​

 

[Pommer]

Traffic Stops ARE a life or death situation. More police are shot during traffic stops than any other call except "Domestic Disturbance". Every traffic stop is potentially a felon with an illegal gun ready to shoot a police officer focused on a brake light or a speeding ticket. Sixty times per year, that is exactly how an officer gets shot and 12 of them die. One gets shot every week and one dies every month. The officer approaching your car knows those statistics. Is this HIS week? His month?

The instance you’ve responded to the officer made the stop because of a murder...robbery...burglary “seatbelt violation”.

Yes, every traffic stop must be treated by the officer as a life or death situation, but not all are and they ought to be held accountable when they guess wrong.

 

[atpollard]

What about the people who do what they are told and still get shot?

Typically, the shooter goes to jail.
What makes you think that I would defend anyone murdering with impunity?

When you tell the police "I have a gun" they should not even need to tell you to keep your hands in plain sight. That is something that they teach in the MANDATORY Concealed Carry Classes to be allowed to carry a gun. The way to avoid getting shot is to be certain that the officer has no reason to even wonder if you are attempting to draw the weapon. Tell them where it is and obey their instructions so they can secure it. That motorist, tragically, did not do what he was taught to do and a far too nervous officer escalated rather than de-escalated the problem.

I do not think he has the temperament to be an officer, but I leave it to others to pass criminal judgement on his actions. However, legal or illegal, the driver is still dead and he would probably be alive if he had remembered his gun safety training.

 

[atpollard]

The instance you’ve responded to the officer made the stop because of a murder...robbery...burglary “seatbelt violation”.

I did not respond to the incident ... I don't watch every video posted.
I just responded to the posted conversation in this topic and the quoted statement.

As far as the video, what is there to say.
An officer appeared to screw up.
It seems he has been charged with a crime, so the Judicial system is handling it.
I don't live in South Carolina, so I got no dog in that fight.

From the sidelines, everything seems to be working just fine (or as well as can be expected in a fallen world.)