The Scientific Method & Macroevolution?

[Loudmouth]

Such compelling cases have been made by such great minds as C.S. Lewis, Thomas Acquinas, St. Augustine etc.

For macroevolution?

How are they compelling in any manner?

To be sure about something, so sure that one is willing to die for such a thing -- and yet to have no way of bringing that something within the realm of science, is unfortunately the nature of the beast.

It is identical to what we would expect to see from beliefs that are not true. In order to deflect this obvious conclusion, theists proclaim that the supernatural is undetectable and unfalsifiable as a rule.

If a doctor proclaimed that snake oil cured cancer, but you have to take it on faith because the evidence is unattainable for no apparent reason, would you be convinced?

If people treated with snake oil died from cancer at the same rate as those who received no treatment, would you be convinced?

And yet, this is the case we are given for theism.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Popper wasn't a scientist. I would put more weight in what Einstein says as it relates to how science is done.

Also, how can there be knowledge without limitations? If something made up on the spot carries as much weight as something with 150 years of science behind it, then what good is that type of knowledge?

I've only listened to one lecture by Popper and he had me tied up in knots.

In the quotes I provided, they both make good points - regardless of their credentials, or lack thereof.

I guess there is some knowledge (for the lack of a better word) which has no limitations.

I guess 150 years is like a pinprick in the grand scale of things. Perhaps one day, we will discover something which will turn science on its heels. i.e. The 2nd Coming of Christ.

 

[Loudmouth]

I've only listened to one lecture by Popper and he had me tied up in knots.

In the quotes I provided, they both make good points - regardless of their credentials, or lack thereof.

What good points do you think Popper makes?

I guess there is some knowledge (for the lack of a better word) which has no limitations.

Then it isn't knowledge. If something made up on the spot can be "knowledge", then I would argue that knowledge is worthless.

I guess 150 years is like a pinprick in the grand scale of things. Perhaps one day, we will discover something which will turn science on its heels. i.e. The 2nd Coming of Christ.

The reason that the case for theism is not compelling is what you just described. You want us to ignore the evidence, and replace it with something that hasn't happened.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

For macroevolution?

How are they compelling in any manner?

Macroevolution? No, I wasn't saying that. I'd say read back, but here's a short reply. They were giving reasons for their general beliefs as Christians etc.

It is identical to what we would expect to see from beliefs that are not true. In order to deflect this obvious conclusion, theists proclaim that the supernatural is undetectable and unfalsifiable as a rule.

If a doctor proclaimed that snake oil cured cancer, but you have to take it on faith because the evidence is unattainable for no apparent reason, would you be convinced?

If people treated with snake oil died from cancer at the same rate as those who received no treatment, would you be convinced?

And yet, this is the case we are given for theism.

They might, but they are wrong. There is nothing supernatural about God or Jesus. (in my understanding of Christian doctrine) God is spirit and Jesus was a man, the sense of the humanity was that God took up flesh into himself. Supernatural might apply to what a Christian is -- i.e. born of the Spirit - we were first flesh -- then have become spirit men.
Prayer is millenia old than Science -- and if one wants to call the experience supernatural -- sure, it can be and is examined.
If you have no place for that in your experience -- no harm, no problemo -- it is what it is, and you are what you are. You do not have to account to me, but to the God who is spirit.

Peace.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

What good points do you think Popper makes?



Then it isn't knowledge. If something made up on the spot can be "knowledge", then I would argue that knowledge is worthless.



The reason that the case for theism is not compelling is what you just described. You want us to ignore the evidence, and replace it with something that hasn't happened.

Oh, I can't remember -- it was back in 2010/2011 -- something about --? I can't remember, but I do remember he had me tied in knots.
I don't agree. If one were able to tap into the knowledge which comes from God, then that would not be worthless. In fact, there are many things which have already been written down, which have great worth to us. Yet, some of these sacred texts, require that one be born of God to receive them. I don't want to replace anything.
I enjoy both the natural, supernatural and spirit knowledge which come from the Lord. You are not one who believes in the Lord, right? If so I understand and accept that, but it does not mean that your view is the only right one. Correct?

 

[selfinflikted]

Oh, I can't remember -- it was back in 2010/2011 -- something about --? I can't remember, but I do remember he had me tied in knots.
I don't agree. If one were able to tap into the knowledge which comes from God, then that would not be worthless. In fact, there are many things which have already been written down, which have great worth to us. Yet, some of these sacred texts, require that one be born of God to receive them. I don't want to replace anything.
I enjoy both the natural, supernatural and spirit knowledge which come from the Lord. You are not one who believes in the Lord, right? If so I understand and accept that, but it does not mean that your view is the only right one. Correct?

Tangential question:

What "spirit knowledge" or "supernatural knowledge" have you received that has any practical application?

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

You want us to ignore the evidence, and replace it with something that hasn't happened.

Actually, there is a certain degree of credibility in the prophetic words of Jesus, which certainly would give a person good reason to believe such an event is coming up in the future. i.e. the prophecy of the fall of Jerusalem -- which Jesus said would happen. It did. AD70 -- one aught to have some degree of certainty that Jesus plans to come back -- 'Just like he said he would' (Andrae Crouch)

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Tangential question:

What "spirit knowledge" or "supernatural knowledge" have you received that has any practical application?

Personal confirmation of God's love for me, and also a very intimate and ongoing association with that love being worked out in my life.

 

[selfinflikted]

Personal confirmation of God's love for me, and also a very intimate and ongoing association with that love being worked out in my life.

(This is going to come off as offensive, but I swear I don't mean for it to be)

Then, the answer is no practical application.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

(This is going to come off as offensive, but I swear I don't mean for it to be)

Then, the answer is no practical application.

I thought you might have come back with something a bit more challenging. I guess, I should have given a bit more detail. Firstly, the fact that I have this confirmation of God's love for me, changes the way I think and feel about myself and my life -- it also fills me with love for those who are sometimes very unkind and cruel, and helps me to forge deep relationships founded on that rock of self-assurance coming out of the knowledge that I am genuinely loved and appreciated in ways that I have never experienced from any human being.

 

[selfinflikted]

I thought you might have come back with something a bit more challenging. I guess, I should have given a bit more detail. Firstly, the fact that I have this confirmation of God's love for me, changes the way I think and feel about myself and my life -- it also fills me with love for those who are sometimes very unkind and cruel, and helps me to forge deep relationships founded on that rock of self-assurance coming out of the knowledge that I am genuinely loved and appreciated in ways that I have never experienced from any human being.

Haha sorry!

I wasn't trying to be challenging, just honestly curious. Wasn't trying to debate anything. Just asking.

 

[AV1611VET]

I thought you might have come back with something a bit more challenging. I guess, I should have given a bit more detail. Firstly, the fact that I have this confirmation of God's love for me, changes the way I think and feel about myself and my life -- it also fills me with love for those who are sometimes very unkind and cruel, and helps me to forge deep relationships founded on that rock of self-assurance coming out of the knowledge that I am genuinely loved and appreciated in ways that I have never experienced from any human being.

Matthew 10:8b ... freely ye have received, freely give.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Haha sorry!

I wasn't trying to be challenging, just honestly curious. Wasn't trying to debate anything. Just asking.

Nah, that's cool man.
Along with those initial changes, I've experienced two further major changes in the way I think. I was able to move beyond my earlier theological and philosophical entanglements (got rid of the garbage) and also embrace things that I'd been told were taboo. That list is too long to give now, but it's certainly one of the reasons I am here, studying the verbotten Charles Darwin's doctrine of Evolution by Natural Selection.

 

[AV1611VET]

I was able to move beyond my earlier theological and philosophical entanglements (got rid of the garbage) and also embrace things that I'd been told were taboo.

I'm pretty sure this is what David meant by "the joy of thy salvation."

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

That initial moment when cognitive dissonance dissolves away, and things become crystal clear.

Just prior to getting saved, my wife an I had a serious discussion on such topics as:

1. gun control
2. premarital s_x
3. abortion
4. death penalty
5. open marriage
6. drugs & alcohol
7. homosexuality

All those vanished at the moment of conversion.

In addition, we experienced what Paul calls:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

 

[crjmurray]

I'm pretty sure this is what David meant by "the joy of thy salvation."

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

That initial moment when cognitive dissonance dissolves away, and things become crystal clear.

Just prior to getting saved, my wife an I had a serious discussion on such topics as:

1. gun control
2. premarital s_x
3. abortion
4. death penalty
5. open marriage
6. drugs & alcohol
7. homosexuality

All those vanished at the moment of conversion.

In addition, we experienced what Paul calls:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

What does the bible say on gun control?

 

[AV1611VET]

.

 

[AV1611VET]

What does the bible say on gun control?

QV please:

The Bible was written long before the invention of any type of gun, so the phrase “gun control” will not be found in Scripture. However, the Bible records many accounts of wars, battles, and the use of weapons. Warfare is presented as an inevitable part of living in a fallen world (Mark 13:7; James 4:1), and weaponry is a necessary part of warfare. Weapons in the Bible were also used for personal protection. In some parts of Israel, robbers were common (see Luke 10:30), and many people carried weapons when they traveled. Carrying a weapon for self-defense is never condemned in the Bible. In fact, it was mentioned in a positive light by Jesus Himself on one occasion (Luke 22:35-38).

SOURCE

Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luke 22: 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

 

[crjmurray]

Christians are called to submit to governing authorities, and they are to obey the laws of the land (Romans 13:1-7; 1 Peter 2:13-17). This would have to apply to gun laws, too. If American gun laws change, American Christians should submit to these changes and work through democratic means toward any desired alternatives. The Bible does not forbid the possession of weapons, and neither does it command such possession. Laws may come and go, but the goal of the believer in Jesus Christ remains the same: to glorify the Lord (1 Corinthians 10:31

Read more: How should a Christian view gun control?

So guns are fine unless the government says otherwise?

 

[AV1611VET]

SOURCE

Read more: How should a Christian view gun control?

Great minds think alike, don't they?

 

[crjmurray]

Great minds think alike, don't they?

Just seems like a position you wouldn't normally take.