The science of creationism: where is it?

[juvenissun]

No. Paleontological evidence shows crocodiles are archosaurs, the same group that dinosaurs and birds belong to.

Cladistics show that crocodiles and birds share more characteristics than crocodiles do with lizards.

Genetics/molecular studies show that crocodiles and birds are more closely related that crocodiles are to lizards.

Lizards belong to the class Reptilia. Crocodiles belong to the class Eusuchia.

So here we have 3 different realms of independent study that show the same thing. So here is the question-

If evolution isn't true, why would God make crocodiles so closely related to birds when "common sense" tells us they should be more closely related to lizards?

Everyone can see croc and lizard can't fly, do not have wings. Why do you say that croc has more resemblances to birds?

 

[AV1611VET]

Far harder than a good question is to come up with a way to falsify evolution.

How do you falsify something that never existed?

All evolution has is a series of dots that they say started at Point A and progressed through Point Z.

When you actually look at that progression though, it's so full of missing parts, you have to assume you're right in order to see any logic.

In addition, when asked how Point A got started, no one knows.

Evolution assumes a car is traveling down a highway with a motor that has all its parts, but when you look under the hood*, all you see is a wire here, or a bolt there.

You don't even know how the car got started.

* I know --- the car is moving.

 

[AV1611VET]

Everyone can see croc and lizard can't fly, do not have wings. Why do you say that croc has more resemblances to birds?

If they came from flying dragons, that would explain it, eh?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

How do you falsify something that never existed?

All evolution has is a series of dots that they say started at Point A and progressed through Point Z.

When you actually look at that progression though, it's so full of missing parts, you have to assume you're right in order to see any logic.

In addition, when asked how Point A got started, no one knows.

Evolution assumes a car is traveling down a highway with a motor that has all its parts, but when you look under the hood*, all you see is a wire here, or a bolt there.

You don't even know how the car got started.

* I know --- the car is moving.

If this is truly your understanding of ToE, then I'm saddened a bit.

 

[Hespera]

Juv sez..".Everyone can see croc and lizard can't fly, do not have wings. Why do you say that croc has more resemblances to birds?" Quote//////////////

Hespera sez..................

A professor with the highest possible level of education could consider educating himself a little instead of asking grade school questions. Wasnt someone complaing earlier about the 'quality' of questions?

Grade school reading level would help too. The statement is that crocodilians are closer related to birds not that they more closely resemble birds. There is a big difference between 'related" and "resemble"!!!!!!!

A komodo dragon lizard, or a legless lizard are boh lizards. But the komodo looks more like a crocodile than it does like the legless lizard, which, lin turn ooks kinda like a worm. So the legless lizard must be closer related to a worm than to mr komodo??

Anyone can see that a whale has lo legs or fur, but it does have fins and is shaped like a fish. So surely it must be more closely related to a fish than a cow?

We see over and over how belief in crationism is totally dependent on ignorance.

 

[AV1611VET]

Bbl ---

 

[Alunyel]

We see over and over how belief in crationism is totally dependent on ignorance.

More often than not, that ignorance is entirely willful. They'll know that if they were to try and gain a genuine understanding of what evolution is, and the evidence for it, then their religious beliefs would be left up a certain creek without a paddle, so they deliberately refuse to gain that understanding, and instead just go off of their own assumptions. Anyone who does understand evolution can see so clearly their lack of understanding when they try to refute it, based off of only their preconceived notions as to what evolution is.

What they don't know can't hurt them, kinda thing.

 

[Hespera]

Alunyel sez...
Originally Posted by Hespera

We see over and over how belief in crationism is totally dependent on ignorance.
​

More often than not, that ignorance is entirely willful. They'll know that if they were to try and gain a genuine understanding of what evolution is, and the evidence for it, then their religious beliefs would be left up a certain creek without a paddle, so they deliberately refuse to gain that understanding, and instead just go off of their own assumptions. Anyone who does understand evolution can see so clearly their lack of understanding when they try to refute it, based off of only their preconceived notions as to what evolution is.

What they don't know can't hurt them, kinda thing.QUOTE//////////////


I think its more than that, its the understanding somewhere deep inside, that it would be like a little leak in the dike, one that would grow and destroy it. Like a pinhole in a tight filled balloon...

Creotheologism seems to attract people with a sort of rigid mindset, people who have to have Certainty; and part of that Certainty is thare has to be some anchor point, something that is utterly True.

The bible HAS to be one hundred percent, to them, or, its all false. so you get stuff like water caopies, and strings that can be measured to infinite decimal places. Anything but face reality.

Some take it further, they personally have to be right all the time. We have one noted poster who will NEVER admit he was wrong about ANYTHING. Now why might that be? Sure isnt to win converts!

It may be that one should not try to stick a pin in their perfect little world, shattering the rigid structure of a lifetime's work. What then?

Of COURSE the ignorance is willful. They are not going to stick the pin in them selves.

 

[BananaSlug]

Everyone can see croc and lizard can't fly, do not have wings. Why do you say that croc has more resemblances to birds?

Crocodylians are archosaurs. Birds are also archosaurs. Archosaurs have special characteristics that are only found in archosaurs:

• Teeth set in sockets, which makes them less likely to be torn loose during feeding. This feature is responsible for the name "thecodonts" ("socket teeth"), which paleontologists used to apply to all or most archosaurs. Some archosaurs, such as birds, are secondarily toothless.
• Preorbital fenestrae (openings in the skull in front of the eyes but behind the nostrils). The preorbital fenestrae are often larger than the orbits (eye sockets).
• Mandibular fenestrae (small openings in the jaw bones), which may have reduced the weight of the jaw slightly.
• A fourth trochanter (ridge for attaching muscles) on the femur.

Other characteristics that birds and crocodiles share are a four-chambered heart and specialized lungs. Lizards lack all of the above characteristics.

And let's not forget the molecular analysis also supports the relationship of crocodylians and birds.

 

[AV1611VET]

We see over and over how belief in crationism is totally dependent on ignorance.

More often than not, that ignorance is entirely willful. They'll know that if they were to try and gain a genuine understanding of what evolution is...

Please feel free to tell me what evolution has to do with creationism.

I'm waiting to hear an educated response, since I'm so 'ignorant'.

 

[Washington]

Please feel free to tell me what evolution has to do with creationism.

I'm waiting to hear an educated response, since I'm so 'ignorant'.

If it wasn't for evolution creationism would have no reason for living.

FEEDING TIME​

 

[corvus_corax]

Please feel free to tell me what evolution has to do with creationism.

I'm waiting to hear an educated response, since I'm so 'ignorant'.

Since a form of "hyperevolution" has been introduced ( by the Creationists themselves), then I guess evolution has already been accepted by even such that teach "perfect science" D) as juv.
Heck even you accept evolution.

But in regard to ex nihilo Creationism (which even some of your fellows in the Body of Christ disagree with-variance), evolution (a model that best explains the diversity of life and species on this planet) has NOTHING to do with ex nihilo creationism.

Heck, the ToE doesn't even have anything to do with abiogenesis, so go figure.


Now, care to actually keep within the ToE when you're talking about it? That would be nice
Juv can't do it, perhaps you can.

 

[dad]

No. Paleontological evidence shows crocodiles are archosaurs, the same group that dinosaurs and birds belong to.

Cladistics show that crocodiles and birds share more characteristics than crocodiles do with lizards.

Lizards belong to the class Reptilia. Crocodiles belong to the class Eusuchia.

So here we have 3 different realms of independent study that show the same thing. So here is the question-

If evolution isn't true, why would God make crocodiles so closely related to birds when "common sense" tells us they should be more closely related to lizards?

Please show me how crocs are related to birds? I know a line was drawn on your pic, but can you detail the reasons, and basis for a connection? I would hope so, since you bring it up. What a croc.

 

[juvenissun]

Crocodylians are archosaurs. Birds are also archosaurs. Archosaurs have special characteristics that are only found in archosaurs:

• Teeth set in sockets, which makes them less likely to be torn loose during feeding. This feature is responsible for the name "thecodonts" ("socket teeth"), which paleontologists used to apply to all or most archosaurs. Some archosaurs, such as birds, are secondarily toothless.
• Preorbital fenestrae (openings in the skull in front of the eyes but behind the nostrils). The preorbital fenestrae are often larger than the orbits (eye sockets).
• Mandibular fenestrae (small openings in the jaw bones), which may have reduced the weight of the jaw slightly.
• A fourth trochanter (ridge for attaching muscles) on the femur.

Other characteristics that birds and crocodiles share are a four-chambered heart and specialized lungs. Lizards lack all of the above characteristics.

And let's not forget the molecular analysis also supports the relationship of crocodylians and birds.

You related croc to bird by the shape of bones. I related croc to lizard by the shape of flesh and by the locomotion. Tell me why is your criterion better than mine?

 

[Alunyel]

You related croc to bird by the shape of bones. I related croc to lizard by the shape of flesh and by the locomotion. Tell me why is your criterion better than mine?

I don't think anyone could possibly answer than better than AronRa.

YouTube - Geerup's Terrible Lizard Classification

 

[Hespera]

Juv sez....You related croc to bird by the shape of bones. I related croc to lizard by the shape of flesh and by the locomotion. Tell me why is your criterion better than mine?QUOTE/////////


Hespera sez...

so, would'st juv relate the whale, the shark and the trout because their shape is the same? the eel, the nematode, and the snake? the bird the bat and the butterfly?

 

[juvenissun]

I don't think anyone could possibly answer than better than AronRa.

I want to see a simple argument to my question, not those classification charts. Classification is artificial. We can reshuffle them all over and make a different one.

Croc and bird are VERY different, in what way are they related?
Croc and lizard are VERY similar, in what way are they not related?

So many people made it wrong? Is it possible that YOU made it wrong?

No chart, please.

 

[uke2se]

I want to see a simple argument to my question, not those classification charts. Classification is artificial. We can reshuffle them all over and make a different one.

Croc and bird are VERY different, in what way are they related?
Croc and lizard are VERY similar, in what way are they not related?

So many people made it wrong? Is it possible that YOU made it wrong?

No chart, please.

I'm sorry that you think science is hard, but that's just a fact of life. You should probably recognize the fact that the people who research these things are better at it than you.

 

[Alunyel]

I want to see a simple argument to my question, not those classification charts. Classification is artificial. We can reshuffle them all over and make a different one.

Croc and bird are VERY different, in what way are they related?
Croc and lizard are VERY similar, in what way are they not related?

So many people made it wrong? Is it possible that YOU made it wrong?

No chart, please.

You don't understand and you never will understand, just like you completley fail to understand anything else we explain.

Trying to explain things to you is like trying to explain Pythagoras theorem to a 3 year old, or how an internal combustion engine works to a hamster. It's just not possible, because of your complete lack of willingness to learn anything that contradicts what you want to believe.

 

[Hespera]

juv sez...


Croc and bird are VERY different, in what way are they related?
Croc and lizard are VERY similar, in what way are they not related? QUOTE//////////////


hespera sez...

Bat and cow are very different! how are they related? (hint... they are both mammals! check list of physiclogical / anatomical feat
ures that they have in common)

Bat and dragonfly are very similar! how are they not related? (hint! this is not hard)

next try trout and killer whale. nematode and snake

Alunyel sez...Trying to explain things to you is............... just not possible, because of your complete lack of willingness to learn anything that contradicts what you want to believe.

hespera sez: are we witnessing "highest level of education possible"----- for a theocreo?