The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

Andre_b said:
You say the 10 commandments do no the stand alone.
That's a lie once again:

"He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments." -- Deuteronomy 4:13

Exodus 31:18
The stone tablets were placed in the Ark of the Covenant Exodus 25:21

You love using the oxen as an example, however, everyone except you seems to know that this is, and not the only thing not to covet, it was an example of not to covet any important item of their neighbour simply see what it meant at the time of writing. Of course you take very single line as 100% literal when using it to mock the truth and word of God. You think God should have put the entire list of all items in the world not to covet? Should he have added Lamborghinis, vipers, private jets, children, jewelry, gold, silver, food, land, perls, mustangs, cows, chickens, 500mbps fibre obtics, computers, TVs? Seems like everyone else understands what God means.

You got me on that one.

I just love quoting that directly from the scripture.

You know that no one can obey that command, coveting is deeply rooted in our core nature. We all do it and your dreaming if you think you can resist coveting.

The law convicts and condemns, that is the entire purpose of the law. That is why we establish the law. The roadblock, and that means the entire law and the prophets.

The world has already been condemned and no one escaped.

Not until Christ arrived that is.

Mark 3:28
Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter...

Do you like that one?

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged...

How about that one, we are not judged.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment...

Looks like Christians will not be judged. What do you think?
What does your church say?

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

Andre_b said:
You go in circles a lot, not proving anything. Keep quoting out of context doesn't prove your point. It just proves ignorance of the gospel. If you believe the law doesn't exist then why do you follow the law?

The law is established to inform you that you are a sinner. A leopard cannot change it's spots.

You will always be a lawbreaker and there is nothing that can be done about that. Say your not a sinner and your a liar.

Why separate the ten commandments from the law and the prophets?

The apostles always refer to the entire law when they talk about the law.

Andre_b · May 26, 2020

klutedavid said:
You got me on that one.

I just love quoting that directly from the scripture.

You know that no one can obey that command, coveting is deeply rooted in our core nature. We all do it and your dreaming if you think you can resist coveting.

The law convicts and condemns, that is the entire purpose of the law. That is why we establish the law. The roadblock, and that means the entire law and the prophets.

The world has already been condemned and no one escaped.

Not until Christ arrived that is.

Mark 3:28
Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter...

Do you like that one?

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged...

How about that one, we are not judged.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment...

Looks like Christians will not be judged. What do you think?
What does your church say?

Again, quoting out of context. We've already went through this. No one can follow the law perfectly, doesn't mean we cannot do it at all. You ask for forgiveness when you sin, that's the point, repentance means change for the better. If you're a drug addict and people tell you, you can change, but it won't be easy, and you won't be perfect but at least you won't suffer as much and may reduce suffering by quite a bit. With your logic you would say it's impossible because I'm addicted.

The Holy Spirit is what does the work in your life. But you on the other hand say it's impossible and give up completely and ignore the Holy Spirit's work in you.

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

BobRyan said:
Reading Hebrews 10 informs us that laws dealing with animal sacrifice end at the cross.

I think we all knew that by now. I for one have shared that one with you many times.

No it does not Bob.

Read it again.

Mark 3:28
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things...

The text definitely says the law is the shadow and not the form of things. Then the sacrificial law is used as an example.

Once again.

Mark 3:28
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come...

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

Andre_b said:
Again, quoting out of context. We've already went through this. No one can follow the law perfectly, doesn't mean we cannot do it at all.

You seem to have contradicted yourself here.

You said that no one can follow the law, then you said you can do it all.

You must either admit you are a law breaker or admit your not a law breaker. It's one or the other, you can't be both.

Andre_b · May 26, 2020

klutedavid said:
The law is established to inform you that you are a sinner. A leopard cannot change it's spots.

You will always be a lawbreaker and there is nothing that can be done about that. Say your not a sinner and your a liar.

Why separate the ten commandments from the law and the prophets?

The apostles always refer to the entire law when they talk about the law.

I never said I wasn't a sinner, you are the liar. Less sin is better than constant willingly sinning. We are in a fallen state but the Holy Spirit helps us in this. You simply give up and ignore the Holy Spirit instructions of love which is against sin.

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

I am not perfect as someone just stated.

The law is weak and useless.

Hebrews 7:18
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness.

So which commandment or commandments is the author referring to?

Andre_b · May 26, 2020

klutedavid said:
You seem to have contradicted yourself here.

You said that no one can follow the law, then you said you can do it all.

You must either admit you are a law breaker or admit your not a law breaker. It's one or the other, you can't be both.

Wow you twist words a lot. I said "doesn't mean we cannot do it at all". Just because we will break the law doesn't mean we still strive to break it less every day in our broken nature. The more you listen and respond to the Holy Spirit the less you sin. You became a believer yet it seems you haven't changed anything. Change is possible, even though sin will remain, it'll be less over time. That's REPENTANCE.

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

Andre_b said:
I never said I wasn't a sinner, you are the liar. Less sin is better than constant willingly sinning. We are in a fallen state but the Holy Spirit helps us in this. You simply give up and ignore the Holy Spirit instructions of love which is against sin.

I am not lying here. You are a law breaker, a sinner, a transgressor.

I just don't live in the delusion that I can obey the law like some other folk.

The law condemns you outright and there are no exceptions.

That is what the law was designed to do, to condemn you.

You need to approach from the other side.

The Holy Spirit enables you to love others. So that in loving others you automatically fulfill the law. You can't see this because you have been taught the antithesis of the gospel of Grace.

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

Andre_b said:
Wow you twist words a lot. I said "doesn't mean we cannot do it at all". Just because we will break the law doesn't mean we still strive to break it less every day in our broken nature. The more you listen and respond to the Holy Spirit the less you sin. You became a believer yet it seems you haven't changed anything. Change is possible, even though sin will remain, it'll be less over time. That's REPENTANCE.

Not sure if anything you teach is correct.

I have exactly the same potential to sin, that I had on the first day. That I became a Christian. Nothing has changed, I still need Jesus more than ever.

Repentance from sin is an ideal, a goal, but one I don't think anyone can attain. Go ahead and beat your had against the law, your nature is not going anywhere.

You are saved by the Grace of God.

You will never stop sinning and anyone who tells you otherwise. Is simply not telling the truth.

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

Andre_b said:
Wow you twist words a lot. I said "doesn't mean we cannot do it at all". Just because we will break the law doesn't mean we still strive to break it less every day in our broken nature. The more you listen and respond to the Holy Spirit the less you sin. You became a believer yet it seems you haven't changed anything. Change is possible, even though sin will remain, it'll be less over time. That's REPENTANCE.

I am not twisting anything here. Your a sinner!

No matter how many times you repent you continue in your sin. Stop playing games and have a hard look at yourself in the mirror.

No one is righteous and no one ever will be. No one can obey the law.

Our righteousness is a gift from Jesus Christ.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There is a very real difference between someone who follows the law. And someone who confesses their sin for forgiveness.

Stop playing the law game.

klutedavid · May 26, 2020

Andre_b said:
I never said I wasn't a sinner, you are the liar. Less sin is better than constant willingly sinning. We are in a fallen state but the Holy Spirit helps us in this. You simply give up and ignore the Holy Spirit instructions of love which is against sin.

Your reply did not make any sense?

You are either a sinner or you are not a sinner.

You either obey the law or you are a law breaker.

There is no middle ground here.

You sin and that sin is usually willful sin, unless of course your not a sinner.

There is no difference between adulterers and grumblers, they all burn.

According to the law there is no difference between lust and murder.

The law rightly condemns you.

BABerean2 · May 27, 2020

BobRyan said:
But not very accurate according to Christ's evaluation of them and Paul's evaluation of them.

Why do you ignore Paul in Galatians 4:24-31, when he clearly labeled the Sinai Covenant, the covenant of "bondage" and compeled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage"?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Is there another "bondwoman", the "prophetess", Ellen G. White?

Are you a representative of the corporation which still belongs to her family?

(Former SDA pastor Dale Ratzlaff, on the problems of Ellen G. White)

.

BobRyan · May 27, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Why do you ignore Paul in Galatians 4:24-31,
.

I try to never ignore Paul -- not even in Gal 4.. so I have an entire thread on that topic - starts out like this..

BobRyan said:
Some have supposed that Galatians is in some way condemning -- those who follow holy days, festivals, sacrifices, passovers, ceremoniies, rituals, beads, sacraments, dietary laws, and sabbaths, are choosing a religion that is weak and ineffectual

So then to help with that point we might look for a quote from Galatians with that statement actually in it -- having such an actual quote would be very helpful to make that claim... but we don't have one.

even if someone where to say " Galatians 4:9-10 is a good indication " of a statement where Paul is condemning Bible approved "holy days, festivals, sacrifices, passovers, ceremoniies, rituals, beads, sacraments, dietary laws, and sabbaths,..." - that statement would be about an "indication" (an inference by the reader) and not an actual quote from Paul saying such a thing.

It would not meet the criteria for an "actual quote" with that statement "actually in it" from Galatians -- rather it would merely "indication" instead of quote. T

That some of us may "take it as an indication" of something means we would be "inferring it" and not the evidence that we actually "found a quote" with those words in it.

So then --
Gal 4:9-10 is a great example of a quote that does not mention Sabbath or Passover at all.

8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves (pagans) to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain

Paul is condemning the "return back again" to paganism in Gal 4:8-11 by daring to observe even one of those old pagan days, seasons etc -- and declaring it to be a loss of salvation itself.

By contrast in Rom 14 - Paul condemns anyone who dares to look down upon someone who observes one of the Bible approved annual holy days of Lev 23.

Rom 14
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord

others may claim that "Titus, a Gentile not being compelled to be circumcised is another example of an indication."

But we all know that Gentiles were not required to be circumcised in OT or NT "my house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations" - not the command that "everyone must join the nation of Israel" thus in Acts 13 we find "almost the whole city" gathered for worship on Sabbath.

=======================

New Covenant - Jer 31:31-34 "this is the NEW Covenant - I will write My LAW on their heart and mind... and remember their sins no more". So that's the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9

Old Covenant condition - Gal 3 "obey and live" -- just as we saw in the case of Adam and Eve before the fall. Sinless beings could do it ... sinful beings need the gospel.

Sinai in Gal 4 is a "symbol" a "type" where law that says "do not take God's name in vain" is external on stone but not on the new heart created by the New Covenant. A symbol of the lost condition.

Moses and Elijah lived at or after Sinai - and BOTH are with Christ in glory - before the cross in Matthew 17... saved by grace through faith under the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

I titled it -- with Gal 4 in the title because I know there are some folks pretty interested in Gal 4..

Title: Gal 4 condemns pagan days but does not condemn the Bible , nor scripture, nor Bible holy days

BABerean2 said:

Is there another "bondwoman", the "prophetess", Ellen G. White?

Click to expand...

you appear to imagine that Ellen White lived in the OT or that the texts I quote from Gal 4 were written by Ellen White... if so ... then you would be mistaken on both counts.

BobRyan · May 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
So your still constructing stone altars and sacrificing bulls?

Exodus 20:24
You shall make an altar of earth for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen; in every place where I cause My name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you.

That is a commandment in Exodus 20.

Has the law been annulled or not?

Reading Hebrews 10 informs us that laws dealing with animal sacrifice end at the cross.

I think we all knew that by now. I for one have shared that one with you many times.

klutedavid said:
No it does not Bob.

Yes it does

Read it again.

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God

Once again. -- this is yet another reason why Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath topic admit to the obvious Bible details about the TEN (all TEN) remaining as included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

as noted below

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm ALL TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================

Which is why the OP on this thread - reads the way it does.

BobRyan · May 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
I am not perfect as someone just stated.

The law is weak and useless.

Hebrews 7:18
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness.

So which commandment or commandments is the author referring to?

Law does not 'forgive sin' it does not "save the sinner" not even the command "do not take God's name in vain" can save the lost or forgive their sin..

I think we all knew that.

Broken Fence · May 27, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Colossians 2:16 "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Judge all you like, I refuse to accept it.

1 Timothy 1: 8But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

I have already come to Christ. He is my righteousness. I have no righteousness apart from Him.

Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. ...

Romans 4: 13For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

All of Galatians 3 refutes your misinterpretation of the Word of God.

What if God through the longsuffering of His wrath, taught men and women His law circumsissing their hearts. Don't you understand God is writing His law upon your heart. Has nothing to do with redemption, but to be a person who pleases God.

klutedavid · May 27, 2020

BobRyan said:
Reading Hebrews 10 informs us that laws dealing with animal sacrifice end at the cross.

You still misunderstand what this is all about.

The law is no longer in force and that is why you don't need to offer sacrifice for your sin.

Hebrews 10:10
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things...

The sacrifices must continue if the law itself is still valid. The law is all about sacrifices and offerings on the altar. That will always be the law and if you refuse to follow the law. Then you will refuse to make those sacrifices.

If one letter of the law passes, then the law itself has passed.

I think we all knew that by now. I for one have shared that one with you many times.

You have never noticed that the law cannot be obeyed.

Yes it does Read it again.
Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

The law tells you to make sacrifices for your sin and I can prove that. If the author of Hebrews tells you, the law is useless, then sacrifices are not necessary.

klutedavid · May 27, 2020

BobRyan said:
Law does not 'forgive sin' it does not "save the sinner" not even the command "do not take God's name in vain" can save the lost or forgive their sin..

I think we all knew that.

We know the law is invalid.

We know the law cannot regenerate anyone.

We know the law was instituted for the unrighteous.

We know the law is weak and useless.

We know that breaking one law, is the same, as breaking the entire law.

Blade · May 27, 2020

Cbowles said:
What if God through the longsuffering of His wrath, taught men and women His law circumsissing their hearts. Don't you understand God is writing His law upon your heart. Has nothing to do with redemption, but to be a person who pleases God.

To easy or to hard or.. no clue but.. seems this just flew by. This was my thinking from the start of reading here and .. I was going to say this. Like.. don't you also have it with in you .. not to do harm to anyone.. on and on. Its in me.. is it not in all? Even the sinner know this. Seems GOD has done what He said again and wrote it on our hearts.

I wonder sometimes ..WONDER.. if some don't like or agree with the freedom others have.

The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

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