The Sabbath Is More Than Just Saturday

[Mercy Shown]

Considering we have been debating if we are to keep God’s commandments the way He wrote them, I do not think we believe the same thing. Jesus in His own words tells us to teach each other the commandments Mat 5:19 but judging should always be left to God.

Anyway appreciate the conversation and wish you much love and happiness.

God bless!

I was never debating that. I am simply pointing out the deeper meaning of the Sabbath that God has prepared for us.

 

[Doran]

All of God's commandments are important and Hebrews 4 speaks of Christ rest, which is different than the Sabbath rest. In Christ rest one is keeping the Sabbath and all of His commandments, there is no rebellion in Christ rest, that is unrest. In Christ there is just peace, meaning one is in complete submission and obeying everything He asks including the Sabbath commandment. Isaiah 48:18

Got that right! Different and BETTER. Jesus' rest is precisely his salvation. Conversely, a sabbath day rest can never save. Jesus' rest is a sanctifying rest whereby he sanctifies us, instead of us sanctifying a day, etc.

 

[Gary K]

Got that right! Different and BETTER. Jesus' rest is precisely his salvation. Conversely, a sabbath day rest can never save. Jesus' rest is a sanctifying rest whereby he sanctifies us, instead of us sanctifying a day, etc.

Not exactly true. Sanctification is a sign of our relationship with God, but the Sabbath is a sign of sanctification too.

xo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

 

[Doran]

Got that right! Different and BETTER. Jesus' rest is precisely his salvation. Conversely, a sabbath day rest can never save. Jesus' rest is a sanctifying rest whereby he sanctifies us, instead of us sanctifying a day, etc.

Gary K wrote:

Not exactly true. Sanctification is a sign of our relationship with God, but the Sabbath is a sign of sanctification too.

xo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

What you just said is a absolutely NOT true! And your very telling comment tells me that you have little or no understanding of what "types" or "shadows" in scripture mean; for the aspect of salvation that scripture calls "sanctification" is not a mere sign. It is actually an eschatological, spiritual and eternal reality! Now for a quick Typology 101 lesson.

First, all types, shadows and signs originate in the OT and are time-space, physical, historical temporal realities that ultimately point to GREATER eternal New Covenant spiritual realities. (The very passage you quote above bears this truth out!). The New Covenant SPIRITUAL REALITY of a believer's sanctification is rooted in the person and work of Jesus Christ -- his perfect obedience to his Father's will, his death, burial and resurrection, his promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit to all his disciples, etc. All these spiritual truths, found only in Christ, make sanctification an existential REALITY and not a mere sign that points to something greater because who or what is greater than the Lord Jesus Christ!?

The temple had its origin in the Old Covenant and was a type of Christ because it pointed to Him (Mat 12:6). Jesus is God's New Covenant temple because all God's elect worship the Father IN that temple, by virtue of being IN Him.

Likewise, the sabbath day had its origin in the Old Covenant, and again Christ, as the Lord of the sabbath (Mk 2:28), is greater than that mere sign to the Old Covenant because Christ's [sabbath] rest is infinitely greater since the rest He gives is effectual and eternally saves people.

 

[Aaron112]

In His rest there is just peace.

Footnote question - do you remember likewise where it is written " ... and He gives no sorrow with it ..." ?

I'm not positive this is correct context here (this thread), but that's a partial verse I remember when I read "In His Rest there is just peace" ...

Thanks be to God Forever.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Footnote question - do you remember likewise where it is written " ... and He gives no sorrow with it ..." ?

I'm not positive this is correct context here (this thread), but that's a partial verse I remember when I read "In His Rest there is just peace" ...

Thanks be to God Forever.

Are you referring to this verse? The blessing of the LORD makes one rich, And He adds no sorrow with it Pro 10:22?

The verse I was referring to is:

Isaiah 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Many misunderstand the rest Christ gives with the seventh day Sabbath rest that is a commandment. They think it’s a clever way for Christ to do something for us which some how alleviates our responsibility to obey the Sabbath commandment, but it’s actually the opposite. To receive the rest Christ gives, one is not in rebellion to Him or His commandments- why there is just peace. Isa 48:18. Unrest is when we disobey or are in rebellion to Him which of course includes the Sabbath commandment- shown as an example of why the Israelites did not enter into their rest into Canaan Eze 20:13, Eze 20:21, which we are not to follow their same example of disobedience Heb 4:11 Heb 4:6. People twist these scriptures and sadly missing the warning its trying to provide.

 

[Riot42]

I think the problem comes from people thinking salvation is the whole point of Christianity, so many of us think its all about getting into heaven and they are blind to the bounty of gifts God give us right here on earth, salvation is a gift from God, just like the sabbath. We earn our salvation the moment we place our faith in Christ just like the thief on the cross whom never had a sabbath, never had a baptism, never had communion. Salvation is the first step on a long walk with God that is full of gifts like the sabbath.

How awesome is God that in the first week of creation he recognized that we will need a day off? How sad is it that so many Christians ignore this gift because it doesn't get them into heaven?

I am no 7th day Adventist, I don't believe in denominations. I am a Christian and believe all churches who call Jesus their Lord and savior are the body of Christ. Jesus recognized the sabbath on Saturday, as do I for this reason. I like to say that resting on the sabbath is a gift from God to man, and worshipping on the Lords day (Sunday) is a gift from man to God.

 

[Doran]

I think the problem comes from people thinking salvation is the whole point of Christianity, so many of us think its all about getting into heaven and they are blind to the bounty of gifts God give us right here on earth, salvation is a gift from God, just like the sabbath. We earn our salvation the moment we place our faith in Christ just like the thief on the cross whom never had a sabbath, never had a baptism, never had communion. Salvation is the first step on a long walk with God that is full of gifts like the sabbath.

How awesome is God that in the first week of creation he recognized that we will need a day off? How sad is it that so many Christians ignore this gift because it doesn't get them into heaven?

I am no 7th day Adventist, I don't believe in denominations. I am a Christian and believe all churches who call Jesus their Lord and savior are the body of Christ. Jesus recognized the sabbath on Saturday, as do I for this reason. I like to say that resting on the sabbath is a gift from God to man, and worshipping on the Lords day (Sunday) is a gift from man to God.

So, God is indebted to us? He must pay us our wages that we earned, yes? I thought we were saved by Grace and not works, no?

And just how did the thief on the cross earn his salvation? By doing the works of the Law, while he was dying?

And I don't see in Gen 2:1-3 any command by God for anyone to keep the sabbath. The passage is an indicative, not an imperative. The first command in scripture is recorded for us in Exodus 16 and was directed solely to the Hebrews who he just delivered out of Egypt. See also Deut 5:12-15.

 

[Riot42]

So, God is indebted to us?

Where did I say this? Quote me.

He must pay us our wages that we earned, yes? I thought we were saved by Grace and not works, no?

And just how did the thief on the cross earn his salvation? By doing the works of the Law, while he was dying?

He did not earn his salvation, he placed his faith in Christ and Christ told him he was saved. Do you have reading comprehension problems? Because you seem to be attempting to argue against points I did not make.

And I don't see in Gen 2:1-3 any command by God for anyone to keep the sabbath.

what do you not understand about the word "gift"?

 

[Doran]

Where did I say this? Quote me.


He did not earn his salvation, he placed his faith in Christ and Christ told him he was saved. Do you have reading comprehension problems? Because you seem to be attempting to argue against points I did not make.

what do you not understand about the word "gift"?

Well, you did say in your previous post that "WE EARN our salvation the moment we place our faith in Christ". But "earning" our salvation a totally foreign concept in scripture, since we're saved by Grace. The concepts of "grace" and "earning" are antithetical to each other. If you don't understand how, just ask and I'll be happy to explain.

As far as the thief goes, you used him as an example of earning salvation.

And as far as God gifting the sabbath or commanding man to keep the sabbath, neither concepts are incorporated in Gen 2:1-3. Maybe you're the one with the reading comp problem since this passage is mere descriptive, telling us what God did -- Not what he gave us or commanded us to do do.

 

[Riot42]

Well, you did say in your previous post that "WE EARN our salvation the moment we place our faith in Christ". But "earning" our salvation a totally foreign concept in scripture, since we're saved by Grace. The concepts of "grace" and "earning" are antithetical to each other. If you don't understand how, just ask and I'll be happy to explain.

You are playing a game of semantics. The word earn does not imply works. Prior to having faith you did not have salvation, after having faith you have salvation. The word "earn" accurately describes this change as faith is the only requirement to earn salvation. Without earning grace through having faith, you have no salvation. If I say im going to give you X if you do Y, you must earn X by doing Y.

As far as the thief goes, you used him as an example of earning salvation.

And as far as God gifting the sabbath or commanding man to keep the sabbath, neither concepts are incorporated in Gen 2:1-3. Maybe you're the one with the reading comp problem since this passage is mere descriptive, telling us what God did -- Not what he gave us or commanded us to do do.

Genesis is not the only book in the bible that discusses the sabbath. God gave us a commandment to keep the sabbath holy in Exodus 20:8. In Mark 2:27–28 Jesus stated that man was not made for the sabbath, that the sabbath was made for man implying it is a gift. Our salvation has nothing to do with keeping the sabbath, but we should still honor God and do his will by keeping it not for the promise of salvation, but to please God and have more of a relationship with him right here, right now.

You seem to be the type to think the only thing that matters is salvation, the entirety of my post you responded to is saying that is only the beginning of our walk with God. Faith without works is dead faith. Sure, you are saved by your faith alone, but without works you have no relationship with God here on earth. Is salvation the only thing that matters to you? That sounds more like an insurance policy than faith to me...

 

[Doran]

You are playing a game of semantics. The word earn does not imply works. Prior to having faith you did not have salvation, after having faith you have salvation. The word "earn" accurately describes this change as faith is the only requirement to earn salvation. Without earning grace through having faith, you have no salvation. If I say im going to give you X if you do Y, you must earn X by doing Y.

Give me an example from scripture of what you speak. Since you claim that it "accurately describes this change"? Or did you mean "exchange? Is salvation, in your mind, a quid pro quo arrangement whereby God says he'll do X for us if we do Y for him?

Genesis is not the only book in the bible that discusses the sabbath. God gave us a commandment to keep the sabbath holy in Exodus 20:8. In Mark 2:27–28 Jesus stated that man was not made for the sabbath, that the sabbath was made for man implying it is a gift. Our salvation has nothing to do with keeping the sabbath, but we should still honor God and do his will by keeping it not for the promise of salvation, but to please God and have more of a relationship with him right here, right now.

Who is the "us": The human race? Go back and read Deut 5:12-15 carefully. And your interpretation of Mk 2:27-28 is wanting. Jesus is teaching the WHY behind the sabbath, not the WHO! If Jesus was teaching the "who" he would not have added the clause "not man for the sabbath". Your interpretation cannot logically and adequately explain the reason behind adding this clause.

What Jesus is teaching in the passage, essentially, is that the sabbath was made to benefit man, not that man was made for the sabbath in the sense that a person should expect to forfeit any greater good for the sake of mere sabbath keeping, which is actually the context of the two previous verses in which David violated the law to satisfy his own hunger. If Jesus had reversed the two clauses in v.27 and said instead, "Man was not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath was made for man", the contrast would be more evident to some of us, and it would not change the sense of Jesus' meaning one iota.

Finally, your interpretation would create numerous contradictions with scriptures that teach that the sabbath, and indeed the entire Law of Moses, was given only to the Jews.

You seem to be the type to think the only thing that matters is salvation, the entirety of my post you responded to is saying that is only the beginning of our walk with God. Faith without works is dead faith. Sure, you are saved by your faith alone, but without works you have no relationship with God here on earth. Is salvation the only thing that matters to you? That sounds more like an insurance policy than faith to me...

It seems to me you understand little about the nature of salvation or even more specifically the terms of the New Covenant (NC). This NC is very much unlike the Old because it is unilateral, whereas the Old was bilateral. And the New is unconditional, while the Old was conditional. The NC is efficacious, while the Old was merit-based on the works of the Law/covenant-keeping. You don't even understand faith. Faith is God's sovereign and gracious gift to his elect. Faith does not find its source in man, but rather in God (Mat 16:17).

 

[Riot42]

Give me an example from scripture of what you speak. Since you claim that it "accurately describes this change"? Or did you mean "exchange? Is salvation, in your mind, a quid pro quo arrangement whereby God says he'll do X for us if we do Y for him

Ive already given you examples, feel free to look up and re-read.

Who is the "us": The human race? Go back and read Deut 5:12-15 carefully. And your interpretation of Mk 2:27-28 is wanting. Jesus is teaching the WHY behind the sabbath, not the WHO! If Jesus was teaching the "who" he would not have added the clause "not man for the sabbath". Your interpretation cannot logically and adequately explain the reason behind adding this clause.

What Jesus is teaching in the passage, essentially, is that the sabbath was made to benefit man, not that man was made for the sabbath in the sense that a person should expect to forfeit any greater good for the sake of mere sabbath keeping, which is actually the context of the two previous verses in which David violated the law to satisfy his own hunger. If Jesus had reversed the two clauses in v.27 and said instead, "Man was not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath was made for man", the contrast would be more evident to some of us, and it would not change the sense of Jesus' meaning one iota.

Finally, your interpretation would create numerous contradictions with scriptures that teach that the sabbath, and indeed the entire Law of Moses, was given only to the Jews.

It seems to me you understand little about the nature of salvation or even more specifically the terms of the New Covenant (NC). This NC is very much unlike the Old because it is unilateral, whereas the Old was bilateral. And the New is unconditional, while the Old was conditional. The NC is efficacious, while the Old was merit-based on the works of the Law/covenant-keeping. You don't even understand faith. Faith is God's sovereign and gracious gift to his elect. Faith does not find its source in man, but rather in God (Mat 16:17).

John 14:15 If you love me, you will obey my commandments.

This is proof you are wrong that the commandments are for all whom love him.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

It is you that understands little about the NC as you think salvation is the only thing that matters. Like I said before, that's not faith, that's an insurance policy. What do you think Paul meant when he said "Faith without works is dead"?

Again, you are hung up on salvation when we are in agreement when it comes to salvation, it is by faith alone. But that is supposed to be just day 1 of your walk with Christ. My walk with Christ in discipleship and following his teachings takes me far beyond just salvation, I have a personal relationship with the creator of all things. I see him moving in my life, he guides me, he takes care of me, he blesses me in ways that are undeniable. Every aspect of my life has changed since I actually started doing what the bible says to do. I take rest in him by following his commandments my life is better. I pray one day you find the will to follow his commands and find the same glory.

We are called to model our lives after the way our Lord and savior lived his. Christ kept the commandments, so I keep the commandments. Christ kept the sabbath, so I keep the sabbath. Why do you not strive to live as Christ did?

If salvation alone is good enough for you go for it. I lived that life a long time while wallowing in sin thinking "being saved by faith is good enough I can walk with Christ in heaven", now I am free from the bondage of habitual sin walking with the Holy Spirit in my life right here, right now.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I realize that I have missed the point of the Sabbath all these years by thinking it was a special day that I kept that helped ensure my salvation. As it turns out, I now understand that “keeping the Sabbath” was a very subjective exercise with myself, of course, being the correct judge of how it should be kept and thus giving myself a gold star on my metaphorical salvation chart.

Now before I go on don't think that I've abandoned keeping the day it's way too wonderful for that after all, it is made for us by God. But the Sabbath is only a shadow of things to come and deeper things that we can lay hold of now. The real Sabbath is resting in the grace of Jesus Christ who took all of my sins upon himself and died in my place.

There will be people who have religiously kept the day and yet still in the end will be lost and there are many who will have never kept the day and yet partook of the rest in Jesus Christ God affords us and will be saved. The Sabbath, along with the rest of the law has no power to save me for salvation is a gift of God to me, it is not of myself lest I should boast. When I understood what the real Sabbath was all about it absolutely blew open the deeper meanings in the scripture concerning salvation and what God did in order to secure it for me. Consider the following verse.

Isaiah 58:13-14 New Century Version (NCV)
“You must obey God's law about the Sabbath and not do what pleases yourselves on that holy day. You should call the Sabbath a joyful day and honor it as the LORD's holy day. You should honor it by not doing whatever you please nor saying whatever you please on that day.

In the past, I read this and decided how I should not please myself and what I could and could not do on Saturdays and submitted it to God as my own righteousness which deserves Salvation. I wore my morals like a thorny crown. But now I look at it and understand that I have a choice between two gods, the first being self which can be very pious if it serves its purposes or I can submit to Jesus Christ and God the Father and admit my total inability to find any righteous thing within my flesh. In my hand no price I bring, simply to thy cross I cling.

The first is to do my own pleasure but the second is to call God's salvation joyful, holy, and the very thing I desire more than anything else. You see, I realize that not only will I go to heaven doing whatever I want, but that will be absolutely necessary for anyone desiring to be there. This is because the Lord enters a person's heart and changes what they want. If one is keeping the Sabbath but really doesn't want to there is no righteousness in that. We're only as righteous as Jesus Christ makes us and as we submit to Him. In us, there is no good thing.

So, the Sabbath represents our Salvation in Jesus Christ, our assurance of his righteousness, our belief that we now have no condemnation and that he is able to secure that which he is purchased with his blood. Oh, what blessed Bliss is ours if we accept it by faith and enter into his rest.

We are living by the Spirit, not the OT Covenant. Romans 8 walk by the Spirit, don't put oneself under bondage of trying to earn your salvaion Galations book.
We are under grace now, not the law. Those who put themsleves under the law ignores most fo the 613 Torah laws.

 

[Riot42]

We are living by the Spirit, not the OT Covenant. Romans 8 walk by the Spirit, don't put oneself under bondage of trying to earn your salvaion Galations book.
We are under grace now, not the law. Those who put themsleves under the law ignores most fo the 613 Torah laws.

John 14:15 If you love me, you will obey my commandments.

There is more to our faith than salvation, which is indeed earned by faith alone, but that is just the first step on our walk with Christ. Also remember that Christ calls you to repent, but what are you to repent from if not breaking the commandments? Just because you are no longer condemned by breaking them does not mean that you should not strive to live by God's commandments which have not been abolished but fulfilled, that simply means you wont be punished for not doing it because Christ took on that punishment for you. We are called to model our life as Christ did, he kept the commandments, he kept the sabbath, so I try my best to do do as my Lord did.

 

[Doran]

I've already given you examples, feel free to look up and re-read.{/quote]

Not to me you haven't.

John 14:15 I

f you love me, you will obey my commandments.

This is proof you are wrong that the commandments are for all whom love him.

Really? Jesus is talking to his disciples (i.e. his Father's elect) not to the world. So, yes, all true believers -- you know the people who have been gifted with faith by God -- will substantially and essentially live a godly life. Don't believe me? Read Ezek 36:24-28.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

It is you that understands little about the NC as you think salvation is the only thing that matters. Like I said before, that's not faith, that's an insurance policy. What do you think Paul meant when he said "Faith without works is dead"?

Salvation is the only thing that matters, for if one is not saved by grace through faith, that person will spend eternity in hell. I''d say that's pretty darn important -- like maybe believing the gospel day in day out should be one's top priority in life. Paul seemed to think so, for he wrote that the only thing that matters in this life is a new creation (Gal 6:15).

And Paul didn't say what you claim, James did. His epistle teaches Practical Theology His epistle is addressed primarily to Jewish believers telling them what the Christian life should look like in their lives. Anyone with true faith will live godly lives. Again, see the Ezekiel passage.

Again, you are hung up on salvation when we are in agreement when it comes to salvation, it is by faith alone. But that is supposed to be just day 1 of your walk with Christ. My walk with Christ in discipleship and following his teachings takes me far beyond just salvation, I have a personal relationship with the creator of all things. I see him moving in my life, he guides me, he takes care of me, he blesses me in ways that are undeniable. Every aspect of my life has changed since I actually started doing what the bible says to do. I take rest in him by following his commandments my life is better. I pray one day you find the will to follow his commands and find the same glory.

We are called to model our lives after the way our Lord and savior lived his. Christ kept the commandments, so I keep the commandments. Christ kept the sabbath, so I keep the sabbath. Why do you not strive to live as Christ did?

If salvation alone is good enough for you go for it. I lived that life a long time while wallowing in sin thinking "being saved by faith is good enough I can walk with Christ in heaven", now I am free from the bondage of habitual sin walking with the Holy Spirit in my life right here, right now.

It' seems you have a very skewed view of salvation and ALL that it entails. For example, you seem to think faith is a one-time act by someone. Someone raised his hand in church wanting to be saved. Walked an aisle to answer an "altar call" -- whatever. It's a one time thing! But that's the farthest thing from the truth. Did Abraham live that kind of life!? Wasn't Abraham's entire life characterized by faith! Again, note how Paul's life corresponded so well with Abraham's:

Gal 2:19-21
19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God , who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
ESV

"The life I NOW live" -- as in moment-by-moment -- "I live by faith in the Son of God". Paul never thought of faith as a one time act or a mere stepping stone to some higher spiritual life! For without the kind of faith Paul ascribed to himself, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God (Heb 11:6)! Don't you realize that it was Adam's lack of faith that was the cause of his fall, as well as the fall of the entire human race!? His eating of the forbidden fruit was merely the outward manifestation of his faithlessness. Did not Adam choose to disbelieve God and believe the Serpent instead? His disbelief in God preceded the physical act of reaching out with his hand to grasp the fruit! Good grief! You have never understood this from the scriptures? Your church has never taught you this fundamentally important truth!?

There's a reason why God didn't gift his elect with "mere" obedience but instead with Faith!

 

[Riot42]

"Salvation is the only thing that matters"

If salvation alone is good enough for you go for it. You say that I am the one that thinks faith is a one-time act but it is you. My faith sanctifies me as I walk in it making me follow God's commands because i love him. Alter calls mean nothing, and you continue to argue against points I never made such as this. What matters is what you do in secret behind closed doors when it is only you and God. What matters is living all your life in your faith and growing in it by defeating your sins because you can indeed lose it, and unrepentant sin is the path to doing so.

If you want to live your life in unrepentant sin go for it. Jesus made it very clear that repentance is very important, what are you to repent from if not breaking the commandments?

You will continue to make excuses to ignore God's commandments like Jesus only speaking to the apostles when saying if you love me you will keep my commandments which is nonsense and there is no getting through to you. I love him, and therefore I keep his commandments.

I don't see fruit being born by continuing conversation with you so I will end it here and put you on ignore.. You do you and go in peace, as for me and my house, we serve the Lord.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

 

[Doran]

"Salvation is the only thing that matters"

If salvation alone is good enough for you go for it. You say that I am the one that thinks faith is a one-time act but it is you. My faith sanctifies me as I walk in it making me follow God's commands because i love him. Alter calls mean nothing, and you continue to argue against points I never made such as this. What matters is what you do in secret behind closed doors when it is only you and God. What matters is living all your life in your faith and growing in it by defeating your sins because you can indeed lose it, and unrepentant sin is the path to doing so.

If you want to live your life in unrepentant sin go for it. Jesus made it very clear that repentance is very important, what are you to repent from if not breaking the commandments?

You will continue to make excuses to ignore God's commandments like Jesus only speaking to the apostles when saying if you love me you will keep my commandments which is nonsense and there is no getting through to you. I love him, and therefore I keep his commandments.

I don't see fruit being born by continuing conversation with you so I will end it here and put you on ignore.. You do you and go in peace, as for me and my house, we serve the Lord.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

My goodness. How in the world did you get from my posts that one can live in sin!? I very clearly said just the opposite and even pointed you to Ezek 36 to show that a godly lifestyle was always God's plan for his elect! He is the one who CAUSES his chosen ones to walk in his ways! I have made no excuses to ignore God's commandments. Quote me where I even remotely implied such things, let alone explicitly stated such.

And be advised, sir, that I would tread carefully before you dismiss God's great and awesome salvation so lightly! Not one person on this planet would be in an intimate, saving, loving, familial relationship apart from God's sovereign, saving grace and his unbelievable gifts that issue from that grace such as his Son, faith, repentance, the Word of Truth and the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that you have a very shallow understanding of what salvation entails. Salvation means that God actually saves people from the penalty of sin, from the power of sin presently and ultimately from the presence of all sin in the future. Since you're so dismissive of his salvation, I must wonder if you wouldn't feel like a fish out of water in the visible kingdom being in the presence of innumerable saints who will be singing their praises and giving their thanksgiving forever and forever for his awesome, indescribable and unimaginable salvation.

Very sadly, you typify so many professing believers today who dearly love to mischaracterize and misrepresent others' positions who do not agree jot and tittle with their theology. They excel in creating straw men arguments or rebuttals. I'm just surprised you didn't explicitly accuse me of antinomianism, along with all your other mischaracterizations.

 

[linux.poet]

AMBASSADOR HAT​

Given the large amount of flaming and goading violations and at least one off-topic post, this thread is closed for review. Moderators are on the way. Do not flame new members.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT


It was decided to leave this thread closed. There are a variety of problems but flaming is the biggest. ​