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The Sabbath debate goes on, but should it?

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St Ignatius of Antioch was a Bishop in the early Church circa 108/140 AD. He was a great saint and explains early Church thinking on the Jewish Sabbath.


From St Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Magnesians


United in one prayer and one hope, in joy and holiness


Since I have met the persons I have just mentioned and seeing and embracing them I have seen and embraced your whole congregation, I exhort you — be zealous to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishop presiding in the place of God, and the presbyters in the place of the Council of the Apostles, and the deacons, who are most dear to me, entrusted with the service of Jesus Christ, who was from eternity with the Father and was made manifest at the end of time. Be all in conformity with God, and respect one another, and let no man judge his neighbour according to the flesh, but in everything love one another in Jesus Christ. Let there be nothing in you which can divide you, but be united with the bishop and with those who preside over you as an example and lesson of immortality.


Just as the Lord was united to the Father and did nothing without him, neither by himself nor through the Apostles, so you also must do nothing without the bishop and the presbyters. Do not attempt to make anything appear right for you by yourselves, but let there be in common one prayer, one supplication, one mind, one hope in love, in the joy which is without fault, the joy that is Jesus Christ, than whom there is nothing better. Hasten all to come together as to one temple of God, as to one altar, to one Jesus Christ, who came from the one Father, and is with one Father, and returned to one Father.


Do not let yourselves be seduced by foreign teachings or by old and worthless fables. If we continue to live according to Jewish law then we are simply showing that we have not received grace. Look at their holy prophets: their lives were filled with Jesus Christ and inspired by his grace to teach doubters that there is one God, and for this they were persecuted. That one God manifested himself through Jesus Christ his son, who is his Word proceeding from silence and in all respects was well-pleasing to the One who sent him.


You see how the followers of the ancient customs have come to a new hope. They no longer rule their lives by the Sabbath but by the Lord’s Day, which is our day also, the day on which also our life sprang up through him and his death. Though some deny it, it is by this mystery that we received faith, and for this reason also we suffer, that we may be found to be true disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher. If all this is true, how can we possibly not give him a place in our lives, since even the prophets were his disciples in the Spirit and looked forward to him as their teacher? They waited for him in righteousness, and when he came he raised them from the dead.
 
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Many spurious "church fathers" writings exist to prop up third and later centuries' heretical doctrines. Appealing to so-called church fathers is a dangerous practice.
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Paul himself wrote that shortly after his departure from the apostles grievous wolves would enter the church and false doctrines would lead many astray. When would that time be but the first century? John even declares there were already many antichrists in his day. Acts chapters 13-18 are a clear record of where there apostles and early church stood on this subject.
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PeterDona

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My private consideration, which is probably not so private after all, since it seems to be shared by almost the whole church
- God created the world, and made the 7th day a commemoration of creation
- God gave his own life on the cross and came out of death on the 3rd day
- which is greater, to create the world, or to give his life? For me, that points clearly to the second event, and to the sunday

btw I like his exhortation "Let there be nothing in you which can divide you"
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The Ten Commandments are the divine works of God Exodus 32:16 He personally wrote them and personally spoke them and no man is above God, which is why we cannot edit His commandments. Deut 4:2 God placed these together in a unit of Ten and were placed inside the ark of the covenant that is in the Most Holy of His Temple which is also revealed in heaven. Rev 11:19. God identifies the Ten Commandments as “My commandments“ so anytime we see the words “My commandments” “the commandments of God” “His commandments” includes these divine commandments. God instead of deleting His divine law writes it in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 because this eternal law is what defines sin Roman 7:7 and is what Jesus came to save us from, not in. Mattew 1:21

A commandment is just that, and no where in scripture says the Ten Commandments are multiple choice or optional for God’s people, which should always be kept through faith and love. Romans 3:31, Rev 14:12, 1 John 5:3 John 14:15


Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”


Jesus defines False worship as keeping man’s rules above the commandments of God quoting right from this unit of Ten. Matthew 15:3-9. We are called to worship Him in Truth John 4:23-24 which is why He is calling us back Rev 18:4 to True worship Rev 14:12 compared to Rev 14:11.

We should always obey God the way He asks instead of doing our own thing, which is how man was separated by God in the first place, we do not reconcile with God by being in rebellion to Him or His commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do [keep] His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
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It does not go on. It was settled long time ago, regarding the common church(es).

It only goes on here on these forums, because some Seventh Day Adventist members are active here, trying to preach their Sabbath teaching.

Some few online forum members focused on a specific narrow topic will make it optically look like half of threads are about it.
 
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Lost4words

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It does not go on. It was settled long time ago, regarding the common church(es).

It only goes on here on these forums, because some Seventh Day Adventist members are active here, trying to preach their Sabbath teaching.

Its like with Flat Earth, KJV onlyism and similar - few online forum members focused on such a specific narrow topic will make it optically look like half of threads are about it.

Agreed
 
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Clare73

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My private consideration, which is probably not so private after all, since it seems to be shared by almost the whole church
- God created the world, and made the 7th day a commemoration of creation
- God gave his own life on the cross and came out of death on the 3rd day
- which is greater, to create the world, or to give his life? For me, that points clearly to the second event, and to the sunday

btw I like his exhortation "Let there be nothing in you which can divide you"
The seventh day is for the sake of man's rest, as God rested, not for commemoration.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The seventh day is for the sake of man's rest, not for commemoration.
Interesting the word you selected stating what the Sabbath is not meant for. Lets see how it compares to God's Word.

com·mem·o·ra·tion
[kəˌmeməˈrāSHən]

NOUN

  1. remembrance, typically expressed in a ceremony:
    "solemn ceremonies of commemoration"
    SIMILAR:
    elegy
    obituary
    inscription
    engraving
    etching
    legend
    funeral oration
    • a ceremony or celebration in which a person or event is remembered:

    [kəˌmeməˈrāSHən]

This is what God said:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Lev 23:3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

While the Sabbath is about rest, we are to rest from our work so we can keep the Sabbath day holy.

The Sabbath is about communion with God and the day to honor Him on the day He set aside that is holy, blessed and sanctified, because man cannot sanctify themselves, only God can Eze 20:12

It's meant to be a blessing for mankind- how could it not leaving our secular work aside and spending the day with God that is set aside for this reason.

Isaiah 58:13“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
 
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Soyeong

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Do not let yourselves be seduced by foreign teachings or by old and worthless fables.
The holy, righteous, good Law of God is not foreign teachings and worthless fables. If that is a reference to 1 Timothy 4:1-8, then he was committing blasphemy against God by saying that His word is the doctrine of demons.

If we continue to live according to Jewish law then we are simply showing that we have not received grace.
In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him by teaching him to obey His law, so if we do NOT continue to live according to God’s law, then we are simply showing that we have not received grace.
You see how the followers of the ancient customs have come to a new hope. They no longer rule their lives by the Sabbath but by the Lord’s Day, which is our day also, the day on which also our life sprang up through him and his death.
When God commanded people to keep the 7th day holy and man hypocritically tries to set aside what God commanded in order to establish their own tradition of worshipping on the 1st day instead, then do you think that we should follow God or man?
 
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BobRyan

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St Ignatius of Antioch was a Bishop in the early Church circa 108/140 AD. He was a great saint and explains early Church thinking on the Jewish Sabbath.
The bible itself is an even older document and it gives us this information
1. Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath set apart, sanctified made holy , set apart for holy use , on the 7th day of creation week and so our week is 7 days long, not six days long. No animal sacrifice in the holy seventh day in Eden - it is before sin.
2. Ex 16 - Sabbath still set apart for holy use - no secular activity, ... still no animal sacrifice in the holy seventh day Sabbath
3. Ex 20:8-11 Sabbath to be remembered, kept holy - because of the Gen 2:2-3 act of God "alone" as we see in Ex 20:11.
4. Sabbath "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 when made
5. Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping Is 56:6-8
6. All mankind to keep Sabbath for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth Is 66:23
7. Gentiles ask for more Gospel preaching to be scheduled for them "on the NEXT Sabbath" Acts 13
8. "Every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 Gospel evangelism to both gentiles and Jews in the synagogues
9. "abbath after Sabbath after Sabbath Gospel evangelism to both gentiles and Jews - Acts 17:1-5

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 "This IS the LOVE of God that we keep His commandments"

Where "The first commandment with a promise - is Honor your father and mother" - Eph 6:2 in that still-valid unit of TEN

Deut 5:22 "God spoke the TEN commandments from the cloud, on the mountain to the people... and He added no more"

James 2 - to break one of them is to break them all

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP The Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
 
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BobRyan

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The seventh day is for the sake of man's rest, as God rested, not for commemoration.
Lev 23:3 - "a day for holy convocation"
Ex 20:8-11 "REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it holy... FOR IN SIX DAYS the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and rested the seventh day therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day - and made it holy"

Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:11 -- sanctified, set apart for holy use, a day for holy convocation Lev 23:3.
 
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BobRyan

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It does not go on. It was settled long time ago, regarding the common church(es).

It only goes on here on these forums, because some Seventh Day Adventist members are active here, trying to preach their Sabbath teaching.

100's of Sabbath keeping groups listed on this thread - so not just SDA, not just Seventh-day Baptists, not just Messianic Jews, not just....

 
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Soyeong

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My private consideration, which is probably not so private after all, since it seems to be shared by almost the whole church
- God created the world, and made the 7th day a commemoration of creation
- God gave his own life on the cross and came out of death on the 3rd day
- which is greater, to create the world, or to give his life? For me, that points clearly to the second event, and to the sunday

btw I like his exhortation "Let there be nothing in you which can divide you"
It is greater to obey God than to disobey Him. In Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticize the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so while there is nothing wrong with following a tradition of honoring the resurrection in addition to obeying God's command to seep the Sabbath holy, we should not hypocritically set aside God's command to do that in order to follow our own tradition. God's law is His instructions for how to worship him, so disobeying those instructions in order to worship him is like a husband committing adultery in order to honor his wife. Jesus rose of the Feast of Firstfruits as the firstfruits from the dead, so there is already a day with relevant symbolism that we can use to honor the resurrection that is in accordance with what God has commanded, so there is no need whatsoever to set aside any of God's commands in order to honor the resurrection.
 
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Clare73

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Interesting the word you selected stating what the Sabbath is not meant for. Lets see how it compares to God's Word.
com·mem·o·ra·tion
[kəˌmeməˈrāSHən]
NOUN
remembrance, typically expressed in a ceremony:
"solemn ceremonies of commemoration"
SIMILAR:
elegy
obituary
inscription
engraving
etching
legend
funeral oration
a ceremony or celebration in which a person or event is remembered:
[kəˌmeməˈrāSHən]
This is what God said:
Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
So "remember" is no longer a recollection, it is a commemoration.

More bootstrapping.
 
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Clare73

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Lev 23:3 - "a day for holy convocation"
Ex 20:8-11 "REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it holy... FOR IN SIX DAYS the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and rested the seventh day therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day - and made it holy"

Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:11 -- sanctified, set apart for holy use, a day for holy convocation Lev 23:3.

Ex 31:14-17, 34:21, 35:2-3, Dt 5:14.
 
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BobRyan

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Ex 31:14-17, 34:21, 35:2-3, Dt 5:14.
22 “These words the Lord spoke to your whole assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, from the cloud, and from the thick darkness, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me

The only words spoken directly by God to the entire assembly at the mountain from the cloud and a great voice... was the TEN written on Stone in Ex 20. "And he added no more"

Deut 10:4 Then He wrote on the tablets, like the first writing, the Ten Commandments which the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me.
 
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PeterDona

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It is greater to obey God than to disobey Him.
And my post was .....
My private consideration, which is probably not so private after all, since it seems to be shared by almost the whole church
- God created the world, and made the 7th day a commemoration of creation
- God gave his own life on the cross and came out of death on the 3rd day
- which is greater, to create the world, or to give his life? For me, that points clearly to the second event, and to the sunday

btw I like his exhortation "Let there be nothing in you which can divide you"

Right @Soyeong so what you seem to say is, that those who venerate sunday more than saturday are the disobedient ones, and those who venerate saturday more than sunday are the obedient ones. Is this your thought?
 
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The point of this thread was to show what the Church taught at the beginning. Ignatius of Antioch taught in the early second century, barely a century after Our Lord’s Ascension and mere decades after the death of the last Apostle.
There were Judahizers around that tried to teach that believers had to be circumcised to be saved and keep the whole law. Ignatius rightfully points out this error, and shows that it applies to all works of the flesh, including the Sabbath. These are Ignatius’ words, not mine.
For Sabbath keeping to be the true teaching, one would have to contend that the Church became apostate early in her formation, rather than remaining Apostolic. Is that a valid argument? What evidence do we see?
I reviewing history, we do not see Sabbath keeping as the dominant teaching of the Church. It is even admitted by supposed SDA scholars in the book “From Sabbath to Sunday”, in that it quoted no Church teaching from those days. The author of that book merely attempted to discredit the saints such as Justin Martyr, Iraneus, among others. If I had to read the word “hardly” one more time, I would think the Author did not know how to say anything else. That is a scoffers book, not a scholarly work. It did receive an “Imprimater” from the Catholic Church, but that means, “let it be published”. It did not receive a “Nihil Obstat”, which would mean it contained nothing against Church teaching. This merely means that it is worth taking a look at the work without agreeing with its conclusions. That is true as we would not see the fault in logic had we not been able to review the work.

The apostolic teaching is that we keep the law of the Spirit, not the law of the flesh. Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. He did not say, if you love me, keep the Ten Commandments.
Most don’t realize that Jesus’ commands are more strict than the Ten Commandments, and they are binding on pain of sin. A Christian does not sin willfully. If we do sin, we humble ourselves and confess our sins. Should we not make every effort to study and ask God for the grace to follow Jesus’ commands, instead of arguing over what the Ten Commandments say?

When Jesus says, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you, do you believe it? Is that an important command to you, or are you more interested in arguing over the Ten Commandments? Saying that the Eucharist is merely symbolic diminishes its import and makes the word of God of no effect, rather than the source and summit of our faith as it’s suppose to be and was for 1500 years prior to Zwingli.
The modern contention is, “Ignore the Eucharist? Yeah, no problem, just make sure your flesh is in that seat on a Saturday morning.”
Does this not seem absurd to you?
 
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St Ignatius of Antioch was a Bishop in the early Church circa 108/140 AD. He was a great saint and explains early Church thinking on the Jewish Sabbath.


From St Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Magnesians


United in one prayer and one hope, in joy and holiness


Since I have met the persons I have just mentioned and seeing and embracing them I have seen and embraced your whole congregation, I exhort you — be zealous to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishop presiding in the place of God, and the presbyters in the place of the Council of the Apostles, and the deacons, who are most dear to me, entrusted with the service of Jesus Christ, who was from eternity with the Father and was made manifest at the end of time. Be all in conformity with God, and respect one another, and let no man judge his neighbour according to the flesh, but in everything love one another in Jesus Christ. Let there be nothing in you which can divide you, but be united with the bishop and with those who preside over you as an example and lesson of immortality.


Just as the Lord was united to the Father and did nothing without him, neither by himself nor through the Apostles, so you also must do nothing without the bishop and the presbyters. Do not attempt to make anything appear right for you by yourselves, but let there be in common one prayer, one supplication, one mind, one hope in love, in the joy which is without fault, the joy that is Jesus Christ, than whom there is nothing better. Hasten all to come together as to one temple of God, as to one altar, to one Jesus Christ, who came from the one Father, and is with one Father, and returned to one Father.


Do not let yourselves be seduced by foreign teachings or by old and worthless fables. If we continue to live according to Jewish law then we are simply showing that we have not received grace. Look at their holy prophets: their lives were filled with Jesus Christ and inspired by his grace to teach doubters that there is one God, and for this they were persecuted. That one God manifested himself through Jesus Christ his son, who is his Word proceeding from silence and in all respects was well-pleasing to the One who sent him.


You see how the followers of the ancient customs have come to a new hope. They no longer rule their lives by the Sabbath but by the Lord’s Day, which is our day also, the day on which also our life sprang up through him and his death. Though some deny it, it is by this mystery that we received faith, and for this reason also we suffer, that we may be found to be true disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher. If all this is true, how can we possibly not give him a place in our lives, since even the prophets were his disciples in the Spirit and looked forward to him as their teacher? They waited for him in righteousness, and when he came he raised them from the dead.

Frankly, I wouldn’t even care about Adventist doctrine except for the fact that in promoting their doctrine, Adventists are promoting a work of EGW’s called The Great Controversy, which contains numerous omissions and historical inaccuracies, and is extremely anti-Roman Catholic, and in their zeal to criticize Roman Catholic practices, Adventists also criticize the practices of the vast majority of other Christian denominations, and this criticism tends to be harsh and hurtful.

On the other hand, since this issue is such a lightning rod, it does prevent more annoying forms of polemics from occurring, for example, endless and unresolvable debates of Calvinists vs. non-Calvinists, which cannot be settled on Sola Scriptura grounds since both doctrines are logically consistent with canonical scripture and even with many of the early church fathers in the case of early Calvinism, before the rise of fundamentalism.
 
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