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The Russian Investigation

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by hislegacy, May 12, 2019.

  1. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    The Russia investigation:

    The resources of the investigation:
    • Funding totaling around $30,000,000.00
      • Funding was never restricted
      • Funding was controlled by Muellers needs.
    • Staffing
      • Hand picked by Mueller
      • 19 seasoned Atrorney’s
      • Not one Trump supporter
      • several who were Clinton supporters - financially
      • 40 FBI Agents
    • Cooperation from the White House:
      • Not one instance of the use of executive privilege
      • President waived his rights to client attorney privilege
        • Attorney Don McGahn voluntarily gave 30+ hours of testimony
      • President’s son - voluntarily gave 20+ hours of testimony
      • Over 1,500,000 pages of documents turned over - none erased or destroyed.
      • President answer the Special Investigators questions
    • Legal tools:
      • 2,800 subpoenas
      • 500 witnesses
      • Over 500 search warrants
    Over two years, time span controlled by Robert Mueller

    Legal Proceedings (indictments and convictions:
    • The Internet Research Agency - (Russian Troll Farm) - 37 page indictment names two companies and 13 Russian Nationals. No connection to Trump or Campaign staff
    • 12 Russian military intelligence officers - 29 page indictment - No Connection to Trump or Campaign Staff
    • Paul Manafort - Convicted for 7.5 years for financial Crimes - None of which were connected to Trump or Campaign activities
    • Konstantin Kilimnick - Charged with Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice re Paul Manafort -No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Charged: Roger Stone - lying to Congress - trial set - No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Michael Flynn - lying to congress -No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Rick Gates - lying to investigators: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Michael Cohen - bank finance charges - lying to congress: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • George Papadopoulos - lying to investigators: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Alex van der Zwaan - lying to investigators: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Richard Pinedo: Identiy theft: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Sam Patten - failure to register as foreign lobbyist: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Bijan Kian: Conspiracy to violate lobbying laws: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Skim Alptekin - Conspiracy to violate lobbying laws: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Gregory Craig - Referred to NY Prosecutors - No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Vin Weber - Referred to NY Prosectors No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    • Tony Podesta - Referred to NY Prosecutors: No Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion
    Summary:

    Numerous indictments, several convictions and several cases referred to other jurisdictions - not one of which is Connection to Trump or Campaign collusion

    This same team found no collusion between any American, including the President and Russia to collude.

    He also did not make a recommendation (somethhing he had dome almost 40 times,

    And the left wants us to believe the President is guilty.
     
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  2. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    You glossed over all the attempts to obstruct justice.

    But go ahead and keep telling us all how innocent and virtuous your guy is. I’m sure you’ll convince us all eventually.
     
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  3. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    And the man who was in charge of the investigation, who indicted numbers of people. Did not indict, nor make a recommendation for indictment.

    So the RESIST has changed the narrative from collusion to obstruction, but the Special Investigator, with all the resources mention in the op did not find sufficient cause for charges.
     
  4. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    Hence my use of the word “attempts”.

    But hey, if it makes you feel better to tell yourself that Trump’s failure (despite trying) to obstruct means he’s as pure as the driven snow, go for it.
     
  5. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    Last I looked, innocent until proven guilty, he hasn’t even been charged

    But. If you believe that he is guilty with no charges, nor substantive proof after 30milion dollars, 2 years etc go for it
     
  6. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    It would be ashame if after all this investment and findings, the White House and Senate refuse to address election cyber security. Can you help me understand why the White House is dragging it's feet on this topic?


    But bipartisan legislation to address foreign intrusions is all but dead amid a distinct lack of enthusiasm from Senate GOP leadership and the Trump White House.

    Election security push stumbles amid White House resistance
     
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  7. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

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    Good luck with this narrative. I'm sure it will work on the 57% who disapprove of Trump.

    And since it apparently needs to be mentioned for the 100th time, the Mueller report states that "collusion" is not a crime and so they weren't investigating "collusion". Obstruction of justice is a crime and the report states that there is tons of evidence showing Trump obstructed, but they didn't feel that they could charge a sitting president show they passed that on to Congress.
     
  8. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

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    Over 800 former DOJ prosecutors think otherwise, but good luck with that narrative.
    STATEMENT BY FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS
     
  9. SoldierOfTheKing

    SoldierOfTheKing Christian Spenglerian

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    Collusion is indeed not a crime, that's what we've been saying all along, but nonetheless that's exactly what was being investigated.

    Obstructed what? Obstructed an investigation into "collusion" which we agree is not a crime. Essentially "obstruction of justice" amounts to Trump defending himself when the Mueller team went after him for crimes that never happened. The audacity?

    Go ahead, keep it up. What do you figure your prospects for 2020 are if you can't move past 2016?
     
  10. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    Open a thread on this topic and I will reply.

    Well it was stated about 100,000 times from Democratic Leadership and their media chums that it was about collusion.

    Then the narrative changes when they found out the supposed evidence did not exist.

    And not one charge is laid. I wonder if Mueller had more information than the 800 former DOJ prosecutors did? Perhaps they should come forward with the missing evidence.
    Until then and successfully adjudicated the President is innocent.

    I know that flies against the narrative and it dashed the hopes of winning in 2020. But it is the truth regardless
     
  11. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

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    What a bizarre assertion.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-about-mueller-report/?utm_term=.1fb1cdd2fafd

    In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of “collusion.” ... The Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined {by} federal law. In connection with that analysis, we addressed the factual question whether members of the Trump Campaign “coordinat[ed]” — a term that appears in the appointment order — with Russian election interference activities. Like collusion, ‘coordination’ does not have a settled definition in federal criminal law. We understood coordination to require an agreement — tacit or express — between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference.”​

    Oh my word. Is this gaslighting supposed to work in a world where the Special Cousel's report hasn't been released? Because it's not going to in the real world.
    STATEMENT BY FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

    We are former federal prosecutors....

    Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

    The Mueller report describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge: conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of corrupt intent and connection to pending proceedings is overwhelming. These include:

    · The President’s efforts to fire Mueller and to falsify evidence about that effort;

    · The President’s efforts to limit the scope of Mueller’s investigation to exclude his conduct; and

    · The President’s efforts to prevent witnesses from cooperating with investigators probing him and his campaign.​

    This narrative is tiresome enough when it's applied to Democrats.
     
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  12. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    It has been released and there is not one charge against the President so in the eyes of the law. The President is innocent.

    And not even charged.
     
  13. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    Your point isn’t about legal technicalities, is it?
     
  14. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

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    It's true he wasn't charged, but it wasn't because of lack of evidence but because the DOJ won't indict a sitting president. He'll remain indicted until he leaves office.
     
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  15. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    I also find it interesting that a report which is asserted to exonerate the President is also one he's fighting against releasing. It is almost as if there's more in it than is indicated in the OP.
     
  16. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    The report from that investigation specifically contradicts your claim.
     
  17. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    "Along with a team of experienced prosecutors and attorneys, the former FBI director has indicted, convicted or gotten guilty pleas from 34 people and three companies, including top advisers to President Trump, Russian spies and hackers with ties to the Kremlin. The charges range from interfering with the 2016 election and hacking emails to lying to investigators and tampering with witnesses."
    Here Are All of the Indictments, Guilty Pleas and Convictions From Robert Mueller's Investigation

    What top advisers?

    Here's one:

    Michael Dean Cohen is an American former attorney who was a lawyer for Donald Trump from 2006 until May 2018.

    (!)....

    So much for no connection. It's a close connection.

    Cohen was a vice-president of The Trump Organization, and the personal counsel to Trump, and was often described by media as Trump's "fixer".[3][4] He previously served as co-president of Trump Entertainment
    Michael Cohen (lawyer) - Wikipedia
     
  18. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    And what was he convicted of?

    Former Trump personal lawyer Michael Cohen: Pleaded guilty to tax and bank charges, campaign finance violations and lying to Congress

    How does that show collusion between Trump, his team and the Russians -

    it doesn't

     
  19. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Here's one summary:
    "In August 2018, it was reported that investigators were in the final stages of their investigation.[154] Cohen officially surrendered to the FBI on August 21, 2018.[155] That afternoon, Cohen pleaded guilty to eight criminal[156] charges: five counts of tax evasion, one count of making false statements to a financial institution, one count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution, and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution at the request of a candidate (Trump) for the "principal purpose of influencing [the] election".[157][158][159][158]"
    Michael Cohen (lawyer) - Wikipedia

    As I see it the Mueller investigation was very good for America -- for the Rule of Law.

    I think the results were extremely good, and worth every penny. Many criminals were caught.
     
  20. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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    Correct - not one of which has anything to do with collusion with the Russians
     
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