THE ROCK OF OFFENSE AND HYPER D

[Skidder]

So, my question, WHERE is any evidence at all for the OP ?

Are you one who subscribes to Hyper D? Obviously this post of mine has really afflicted you. Not sure why?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Are you one who subscribes to Hyper D? Obviously this post of mine has really afflicted you. Not sure why?

I don't even know what that is.
I "liked"/ etc, (it seems), many of your posts on other threads, that had an object, a point, "evidence" that you were replying to with a Bible Answers/perspectives.

This thread is troubling because it does not make sense.
Other threads likewise, openly state that to claim to be saved by works, to be made righteous by keeping the commandments, is wrong,

BUT over and over and over they FAIL.

They do not SHOW ANYONE at all, EVER (when requested and when not requested)

WHO fits their 'criteria' (not on the site, and not in the news, and not anywhere )

THEY cannot quote ANYONE for their OP (supposed op), who states that they believe they are made righteous by their obeying the commandments ....

Are THEY trying to get brownie points? < shrugs > I don't know.

NOT TO HAVE even one quote of someone who does what you claim (in the OP) , doesn't work to make a point.

It seems to be an empty point, with no purpose.

 

[Skidder]

It seems to be an empty point, with no purpose.

Maybe not for you because you have never heard of it, but for those trapped in it, and those struggling to get out... this teaching is no mystery. Again that comes back to your ignorance of this teaching, but you cannot hold that on me just because you don't know what it is. Maybe it doesn't speak to those ignorant of this teaching, but only to those who are familiar with it, and those looking for freedom from this EVIL doctrine.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Maybe not for you because you have never heard of it, but for those trapped in it, and those struggling to get out... this teaching is no mystery. Again that comes back to your ignorance of this teaching, but you cannot hold that on me just because you don't know what it is. Maybe it doesn't speak to those ignorant of this teaching, but only to those who are familiar with it, and those looking for freedom from this EVIL doctrine.

Fine.
If it is real. If it exists. QUOTE ANYONE who believes it or is deceived by it.

 

[Skidder]

Fine.
If it is real. If it exists. QUOTE ANYONE who believes it or is deceived by it.

Just because you are ignorant of this teaching, doesn't mean everyone is ignorant to it. It's not all about you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Like this thread below: there is LOTS of EVIDENCE of false teachers:
(it has a lot of proponents TRYING to justify the FALSE GOSPEL they are trapped in) >>
BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION
BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION As Christians who preach Christ crucified we can be assured that the wisdom found in the gospel of our...
Thread by: Skidder, Nov 20, 2019, 650 replies, in forum: Controversial Christian Theology

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just because you are ignorant of this teaching, doesn't mean everyone is ignorant to it. It's not all about you.

Okay, let's see some EVIDENCE.

 

[Phil W]

THE ROCK OF OFFENSE AND HYPER D
A few questions for those who preach the false gospels of Hyper Dispensationalism.
1) Did Jesus not die for Abraham's sins as well?

What sins?
As there was no Mosaic Law till the trek by Moses in the desert, there was no sin either.
It is written...
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Apart from that answer to your question #1, what is hyper-dispensationalism?

 

[Skidder]

Okay, let's see some EVIDENCE.

I apologize for sounding so close minded. My argument works against me as well. I should be more descriptive in case the uninformed want to learn. I hope this helps....

Because the false doctrines of hyper D are all over the place, many who call themselves "hyper" fall into "ultra", and vice versa. Basically the book of Acts is their timeline. Some claim the church started in one place, and others further into the book of Acts. Most hypers are mid-Acts, but that can also vary depending on who's teachings they are following. And most of them also believe the Pauline epistles are limited to gentile believers, the rest of the NT to the Jewish believers. During my travels I have ran into all sorts of variations. As you become more familiar with the false doctrines of Hyper D (and ultra) you will see why I asked these 3 questions in my original post....

1) Did Jesus not die for Abraham's sins as well?

2) Was paradise excluded from "all things" reconciled by the blood of His cross?

3) And tell me how the sinner and their sin is dealt with apart from Christ Crucified?

Here is a useful description from Theopedia. And as you can see, their description also reveals how much these doctrines jumps around.

Hyper-dispensationalism
Hyper-dispensationalism (or sometimes ultra-dispensationalism), as opposed to traditional (or classic) Dispensationalism, views the start of the Christian church as beginning with the ministry of the Apostle Paul after the early part of the book of Acts. Although variations exist in specifics, all hyper-dispensationalists view the four Gospels and many of New Testament Epistles as applying to the pre-Pauline Jewish-Christian church or to the future Davidic Kingdom; not directly applicable to the predominantly Gentile Church of today.

"Dispensationalists distinguish Israel from the church and so look for a point in history at which God's redemptive program changed from the one form of administration to the other. The most common dispensationalism finds the beginning of the church in Acts 2 with the Spirit's coming at Pentecost. From the standpoint of Acts 2 dispensationalism two other views seem extreme, or "ultra." According to Acts 13 dispensationalism the church began when Paul started his mission to Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:2). According to Acts 28 dispensationalism the church began toward the end of Paul's ministry with his reference to Israel's rejection of the kingdom of God and the sending of God's salvation to the Gentiles (Acts 28:26-28)."^ [1]^

The most notable proponent of Acts-28 Dispensationalism was E. W. Bullinger (1837-1913). Other writers holding this position include Charles H. Welch, Vladimir M. Gelesnoff, and Otis Q. Sellers. Spokesmen for the Acts-13, or Mid-Acts Dispensationalists, include J. C. O'Hair, C. R. Stam (Things That Differ), Charles F. Baker ( A Dispensational Theology), and Bob Enyart (The Plot).

While Hyper-dispensationalism is a not a label most Mid-Acts Dispensationalists would readily accept, they prefer that the term "Ultra-dispensational" be reserved for Bullinger and the Acts-28 end of the spectrum.^[2]^ In fact, if the classical Scofield variety may be termed as Acts-2 dispensationalism, then there is indeed a spectrum of views to be acknowledged. By way of distinctions, it is noted that classical dispensationalists accept both baptism and the Lord's Supper as applicable to the church. The Mid-Acts (Hypers) reject baptism and the Acts-28 (Ultras) reject both. Additionally, for the Hyper, the doctrine for the church is contained solely in the Pauline epistles. For the Ultra, doctrine for the gentile church is contained only in Paul's post-Acts 28 (prison) epistles.

Grace and Peace...

 

[1213]

…3) And tell me how the sinner and their sin is dealt with apart from Christ Crucified?

I think they are dealt by these:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, Because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim release to the captives, Recovering of sight to the blind, To deliver those who are crushed, And to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:18-19

Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
John 5:25

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

…We are in the last days my friends. Sound doctrine is being vacated in the name of human wisdom. False gospels are dripping from the lips of those who stumble over the stone that the builders rejected. IN CHRIST is our protection from those who preach more than one gospel….

I agree and that is why I think it would be good, if people would remain loyal to Jesus and remain in his words.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

…Jesus Christ and Him Crucified leaves no room for “multiple gospels”. No matter the dispensation, the blood of Christ is the ONLY remedy for sin. How can the righteous requirements for salvation be met apart from the shedding of blood??

Hebrews 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
…

Interesting thing is, the blood can mean at least 3 things, the physical blood of Jesus, the wine on last supper, or the spirit. I believe the spirit is the words Jesus declared, because:

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

The words of Jesus are what has the forgiveness and also power to make person righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[Guojing]

Jesus Christ and Him Crucified leaves no room for “multiple gospels”. No matter the dispensation, the blood of Christ is the ONLY remedy for sin. How can the righteous requirements for salvation be met apart from the shedding of blood??

Gospel means "good news" correct?

What was the good news that Abraham received in Genesis 12, 15, and 17?

When Jeremiah said the following, was it also good news?

Jeremiah 23:5 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

When Gabriel appeared to Mary and stated the following, was it also good news to her?

Luke 1 NLT 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her, “for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel[c] forever; his Kingdom will never end!”

When Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist proclaim this good news after John was born, was it also good news for the Jews?

Luke 1 (NLT)
68 “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has visited and redeemed his people.
69 He has sent us a mighty Savior[h]
from the royal line of his servant David,
70 just as he promised
through his holy prophets long ago.
71 Now we will be saved from our enemies
and from all who hate us.
72 He has been merciful to our ancestors
by remembering his sacred covenant—
73 the covenant he swore with an oath
to our ancestor Abraham.

Are all these good news exactly the same good news as Jesus being crucified for our sins and raised again for our justification, the good news that the Apostle Paul revealed to us Gentiles?

Do you really want to insist they are the same?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Grace and Peace...

Good and thanks !
"Good" , pending further outcome, and so forth.
SOME of the things mentioned are or may be believed by those who are not dispensationalists, or hyper, etc.
Some of the things posted that are beliefs of ( some? or whoever?) of the dispensationalists are obviously seriously opposed to Scripture and cannot even be imagined to be corrected as if to fit in with any Scripture Believers.

If some are 'schooled' in such a way that they go along with the unscriptural teachings fully, whatever school , instead of seeking the truth in Jesus , from the Father, in Scripture, then yes, that way must be rightly fully exposed, thank you for that !

If someone accepts some of the teachings, some which are in line with all Scripture, and not the others in that school that is wrong,
then this also would be better to recognize for their sakes, and not lump them all together with those who reject Scripture.

For a very tangent example, hopefully towards understanding,
there was an eight year old who got saved.
He happened to be in a known (no question) cult, a false religion.
When he got saved, he thought that he was the last one saved in his church (the cult he was raised in), THINKING (in error), that they (in his church cult, were all already saved....
for about six years this went on - HIM THINKING they were all saved,
and them thinking he was still "one of them".....

Finally, later, about the same time, he found out they were not saved,
and they found out he was saved !
His cult church AND his family kicked him out, and he went on to publish some wonderful testimonies and lessons of Scripture by God's Grace (not from his cult church teachings nor resources, but from and by God's Revelation and grace as he sought , continued to seek , the truth..... and God revealed it wonderfully (like to a little child! ) as He Promises.

So, for the sake of those who might read, and be "stuck in" such a position, let us pray and hope and proceed as God directs, hoping for the best (always) IN HIS LIGHT (JESUS)!

 

[Skidder]

Gospel means "good news" correct?

Yes, but it's a SPECIFIC good news... this good news is THE Gospel. Similar to "a spirit" and "The Spirit". So when it comes to THE Gospel, there is only one, there is not another.

Many believe they're not in a stronghold because their intellect has verified another gospel. But just think about that for a minute... what are they defending?

Do they actually think there is another remedy for sin? Was there ever another way to be reunited with the Lord? Sin is the issue and Jesus the answer! There is no reconciliation to the Father in any dispensation apart from the blood of His cross!! We do not preach a Jesus that wasn't crucified, but the righteous lamb who was slain... given to us IN LOVE by our Holy Father.

There is not another Gospel because there is not another death, burial, and resurrection of the ONLY MESSIAH, and that is why we PREACH AND DEFEND Jesus Christ and Him Crucified!! The ONLY answer for SIN!!

Colossians 1:20
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace THROUGH THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS.

 

[Guojing]

Yes, but it's a SPECIFIC good news... this good news is THE Gospel. Similar to "a spirit" and "The Spirit". So when it comes to THE Gospel, there is only one, there is not another.

Many believe they're not in a stronghold because their intellect has verified another gospel. But just think about that for a minute... what are they defending?

Do they actually think there is another remedy for sin? Was there ever another way to be reunited with the Lord? Sin is the issue and Jesus the answer! There is no reconciliation to the Father in any dispensation apart from the blood of His cross!! We do not preach a Jesus that wasn't crucified, but the righteous lamb who was slain... given to us IN LOVE by our Holy Father.

There is not another Gospel because there is not another death, burial, and resurrection of the ONLY MESSIAH, and that is why we PREACH AND DEFEND Jesus Christ and Him Crucified!! The ONLY answer for SIN!!

Colossians 1:20
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace THROUGH THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS.

If you are talking about only ONE gospel of salvation now, everyone would agree with you. The only Gospel that saves now is the one that Paul revealed to us.

But you do agree that, before Christ came, God did reveal different good news to Abraham, as well as various Jews?

 

[Skidder]

If you are talking about only ONE gospel of salvation now, everyone would agree with you. The only Gospel that saves now is the one that Paul revealed to us.

But you do agree that, before Christ came, God did reveal different good news to Abraham, as well as various Jews?

Is it not sin that separates from God? Is it not sin that brings God's wrath? Is it not sin that brings condemnation, judgment, and death? So if sin is the problem Christ is the only cure, in any dispensation.

Colossians 1:20
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace THROUGH THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS.

 

[Guojing]

Is it not sin that separates from God? Is it not sin that brings God's wrath? Is it not sin that brings condemnation, judgment, and death? So if sin is the problem Christ is the only cure, in any dispensation.

Colossians 1:20
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace THROUGH THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS.

True you are correct there, but we had the benefit of living after Christ.

But what were the Jews in the OT told to do, to be right with God, before Christ came?

What did God instruct them to do?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To expose them, you have to show that they are real - quote them.
Otherwise, show that they are real - that something really is being exposed, some other way.
But as it is,
nothing has been exposed except the op, or the failure of the op to show that a false teaching is even being preached somewhere.

You can simply do an internet search on Hyper Dispensationalism and or Ultra Dispensationalism and see that actual real people believe in it. Personally, I have encountered others on another Christian forum who believe in MAD (Mid Acts Dispensationalism) which is under the umbrella of Hyper Dispensationalism. It is a very real problem for some today, my friend.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You can simply do an internet search on Hyper Dispensationalism or Ultra Dispensationalism and see that actual real people believe in it. Personally, I have encountered others on another Christian forum who believe in MAD (Mid Acts Dispensationalism) which is under the umbrella of Hyper Dispensationalism. It is a very real problem for some today, my friend.

Since it is written that the remaining two thirds of the people on earth refuse to repent of worshiping (serving) demons after one third is killed,
there are A LOT of very real problems for MOST PEOPLE TODAY.

p.s. yes, we are called , when it is time, to expose what is false and what is deeds of darkness instead of going along with the sin. It may be time today, for some, many, few, as God Directs; let's always do as God Directs, yes! and AMEN in CHRIST JESUS ! HalleluYAH to HIM, all PRAISE to HIS NAME !

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Since it is written that the remaining two thirds of the people on earth refuse to repent of worshiping (serving) demons after one third is killed,
there are

If you are referring to the fourth seal (i.e. Death), it is a fourth of the Earth that will be killed by the power of death (See: Revelation 6:7-8). I also do not see the fourth seal as stopping men from worshiping demons. I also do not see the majority as worshiping demons today. The majority are under sin, and they may worship sin or sinful things, but I do not see them as worshiping demons. Satanists worship Satan (who is a demon). Yes, during the End Times, many will worship the beast, but this will not be stopped until Christ returns.

A LOT of very real problems for MOST PEOPLE TODAY.

Yes. I agree, there are lots of problems for most people today. I believe most who believe in an unbiblical form of salvation are seeking to justify sin in some way. I see Hyper Dispensationalism as merely one of many ways where people make excuses so as to justify sin. A person does not have to believe in Hyper Dispensationalism (HD) in order to justify sin. But HD helps an individual to distance themselves even more from what the Scriptures plainly say. In other words, when a person rejects whole books or sections of the New Testament, it is easier to justify in living for oneself instead of God.

Non Hyper Dispensational Belief Alone-ism also can lead others to to treat God's grace inappropriately, as well. For Belief Alone-ism teaches that Christ paid the price for future sin. However, if one were to tell a child that their future sin is forgiven them and that is all they told them, that child could turn out to be the next George Sodini, Kenneth Nally, etc.

George Sodini:
George Sodini.

Kenneth Nally:
John MacArthur and Kenneth Nally.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But HD helps an individual to distance themselves even more from what the Scriptures plainly say. In other words, when a person rejects whole books or sections of the New Testament, it is easier to justify in living for oneself instead of God.

Perhaps (only perhaps, as this is 'new', sort of)(to me/ seeing this work out) ,
it would help to expose a false teaching/practice/ dogma/doctrine in particular (many times this is done, I know),
instead of the 'whole shebangs') ... but only for this reason(I'm thinking)>
some people might agree a teaching is false when they see the expose' of the teaching, but if they realize their whole life is bound up in a sinful group opposed to Jesus, that is probably a lot harder to accept? (of course it is more difficult to find out a group someone grew in, is altogether false!)
.... whichever way God directs of course... daily, is best.
Keep on keeping on IN JESUS EVERY DAY, continually!