The Right to Create an Office

Rebekah30 said:

I concur, back to the OP


I had to so everyone else does too.
I say that with respect to all.

Click to expand...

christianmomof3 said:

The book of Acts (14:23), and also 1 Tim. (ch. 3) and 1 Pet. (ch. 5) do show us that there were overseers or elders appointed by the apostles for the churches to care for leading and shepherding the saints. 1 Tim ch. 3 also shows us that they had deacons who were serving ones under the leadership of the overseers or elders. Beyond that there were no other "offices" mentioned in the churches and there was no "heirarchical system" laid out or commanded in the Bible.

It is true that such a system did begin during the first century of the church, but that does not mean that it was what the Lord wanted. In fact, looking at the verses in Revelation about the Nicolaitians, we see that such a system separating clergy and laity is actually repugnant to the Lord.

Rev. 2:6 But this you have, that you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Nicolaism (also Nicholaism, Nicolationism, or Nicolaitanism) is a Christianheresy whose adherents are called nicolaitans, nicolaitanes, or nicolaites. Nico means "conquer" in Greek, Laitan refers to lay people, or laity, hence the word could be taken to mean "Lay conquerors" or Conquerors of the Lay People;

Cyrus Scofield, in his Notes on the Bible, following dispensationalist thought, suggests that the Seven Letters in Revelation foretell the various eras of Christian history, and that "Nicolaitans" "refers to the earliest form of the notion of a priestly order, or 'clergy,' which later divided an equal brotherhood into 'priests' and 'laity.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaism



In the New Testament, God has returned to His original intention that He has made all believers in Christ priests as seen in the following verses:

Rev. 1:6 And made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father, to Him be the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen.
1 Pet. 2:5 You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house into a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired for a possession, so that you may tell out the of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Click to expand...

christianmomof3 said:

How are you feeling?
I hope you are doing well.
My 7 year old daughter has a stomach virus or flu or something - she was up at 4 am this morning throwing up and is now running fever.


As far as the information about the Nicolaitans - I did not expect you would agree with it, but what about the other verses and examples from the Bible?

As far as your original question - who would give "rights" to bishops (which I think is the word "overseers")?
The church is the Body of Christ.
He is the Head of it.
Paul showed us that Christ speaks to us and acts through the many redeemed and regenerated members of His Body.
The Bible is accepted by most Christians as the inspired word of God.
Other "Traditions" are not accepted by all Christians as being directed or inspired by God.

I would think the only One who could give any "rights" would be the Lord Himself and according to the Bible, He desires for all of His redeemed and regenerated believers to be a nation of priests - we all should be those who live Christ and dispense Him to others. The priesthood should not be an "office" for only a few select men.
We should all live as priests to our God.

Click to expand...

THE FOUR "ORDERS" IN CHURCH GOVERNMENT

The New Testament teaches that all four "orders" which form the government of the Church - laity, deacons, presbyters and bishops - are necessary to the proper functioning of the body of Christ. All four are clearly visible in Paul's first letter to Timothy.

1. The laity are also called "saints" (Rom 1:7; 2Co 1:1; 1Ti 5:10), the "faithful" (Eph 1:1), and "brethren" (Col 1:2). The laity (Gr. laos) are the people of God, the "priesthood" (1 Pt 2:4-10). Technically the term "laity" includes the clergy, though in our day the word usually refers to those in the Church who are not ordained. It is from among the laity that other three orders emerge.

2. The deacons, literally “servants,” are ordained to serve the Church and must meet high qualifications (1Ti 3:8-13). The apostles were the first to take on the service task of deacons, and when the workload became too great they called for “seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business” (Acts 6:3). Besides serving the material needs of the people, deacons occupy a crucial role in the liturgical life of the Church.

3. The presbyters, or elders, are visible throughout the New Testament. Their ministry from the start was to “rule,” “labor in the word,” and teach true “doctrine” (1 Ti 5:17) in the local congregation. Paul appointed elders in every church” (Acts 14:23) and later instructed his apostolic apprentice, Titus, to do the same in Crete (Tts 1:5). From the word “presbyter” came the shorter form “prest,” which finally became “priest”. In no way is the ordained Christian priesthood seen as a throwback to or a reenacting of the Old Testament priesthood. Rather, joined to Christ who is our High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek” (Heb 5:6,10), the Orthodox priest is likewise a minister of a new covenant that supersedes the old.

4. The bishop is the “overseer” of the congregation and clergy in a given area. Often the terms “bishop” and “elder” are used interchangeably in the New Testament (Acts 20:17, 28), with the bishop being the leader of the elders. The qualifications for bishop listed in 1 Timothy 3:17 and Titus 1:7-9 underscore this role. Nonetheless, the bishopric is a specific office both in the New Testament and in the early Church. The Twelve were the first to hold this office (in Acts 1:20 “office” could literally be translated “bishopric”) and they in turn consecrated other bishops to follow them. For example, Timothy and Titus are clearly of a separate order from that of elder (see 1Ti 5:17-22; Tts 1:5). Early records show James was bishop of Jerusalem by AD 49 and functioned accordingly at the first council there (Acts 15:13-22). Peter is on record as the first bishop of Antioch prior to AD 53, and later first bishop of Rome, where he was martyred about AD 65.

Perhaps the strongest early reference outside the New Testament to the presence of the four orders in Church government occurs in the writings of Ignatius, bishop of Antioch from AD67-107, the very heart of the New Testament era. To the church at Philadelphia (see Rev 3:7-13) he writes of “Christians [laity] at one with the bishop and the presbyters and the deacons”.

In the Orthodox Church, authority is resident in all four orders, with the bishop providing the center of unity. His authority is not over the Church but within the Church. He is an icon of Jesus Christ, “the Shepherd and Overseer [lit., bishop] of your souls” (1 Pt 2:25).

Church leadership does not consist of one or more of the orders functioning without the others. Rather the Church, with Christ as Head, is conducted like a symphony orchestra, a family, the body of Christ, where all the members in the given offices work together as the dwelling place of the Holy Trinity.

Click to expand...