The Right to Create an Office

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Keep reading in Exodus. I've already explained this in this thread. Nonetheless, at Exodus 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

So, what did God do?

28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, [even] Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

He separated the Levitical line out from the 12 and called the other 11 the children of Israel. This distinction carries forward to Acts 5:21.

Okay? Now, what is the NT model? Melchizedek, assuming one does not shrink back, but the just shall live by faith (hearing/seeing the Word, Scripture guided by the Holy Spirit). We are the priesthood of believers. What model? Not the 1 and 11 of the OT Levitical priesthood (incidentally this is the RCC and others model), but this wherein all may be elders:

born-again from above, baby, weaned (from milk to meat), elder.

That is eisegesis, not exegesis.

Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

Well you should at least be able to lead us in the Liturgy then. Feel up to it?

Most of us who can read out loud would qualify for the entry level clergy position of "Reader". If... we were recommended and accepted.

A Bishop should be able to quote the entire Psalms from memory. Perhaps you are at that level?

Forgive me...

Not at all, "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. "

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That is eisegesis, not exegesis.

Forgive me...

Eisegesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eisegesis (from the Greek root εις, meaning into, in, among) is the process of misinterpreting a text in such a way that it introduces one's own ideas, reading into the text.

Exegesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Exegesis (from the Greek ἐξηγεῖσθαι 'to lead out') is a critical explanation or interpretation of a text.
Biblical exegesis is a critical explanation or interpretation of the Bible. The goal of Biblical exegesis is to find the meaning of the text which then leads to discovering its significance or relevance.

 

[Standing Up]

Keep reading in Exodus. I've already explained this in this thread. Nonetheless, at Exodus 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

So, what did God do?

28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, [even] Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

He separated the Levitical line out from the 12 and called the other 11 the children of Israel. This distinction carries forward to Acts 5:21.

Okay? Now, what is the NT model? Melchizedek, assuming one does not shrink back, but the just shall live by faith (hearing/seeing the Word, Scripture guided by the Holy Spirit). We are the priesthood of believers. What model? Not the 1 and 11 of the OT Levitical priesthood (incidentally this is the RCC and others model), but this wherein all may be elders:

born-again from above, baby, weaned (from milk to meat), elder.

That is eisegesis, not exegesis.

Forgive me...

Which part? All of it or some of it?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Not at all, "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. "

The Bishop has to be able to serve even if he has no books. Think of them being in prison.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Which part? All of it or some of it?

The part where you make the assumption that Exodus 20:19 is the cause of the setting up the Priesthood in Exodus 28:1-.

Eisegesis

and the part about all being elders.

Eisegesis

Forgive me...

 

[E.C.]

The Bishop has to be able to serve even if he has no books. Think of them being in prison.

Forgive me...

That is very true. They have been able to serve in persecution from the Roman pagans to the Muslims to other Christians and then Atheists. They have always been able to do their job when God has allowed. Which appears to be quite often


On a side note, I noticed that there were three "no" responses in the poll, yet no one has really made the case to substantiate their "no" response.

Why is this?

 

[Standing Up]

Keep reading in Exodus. I've already explained this in this thread. Nonetheless, at Exodus 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

So, what did God do?

28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, [even] Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

He separated the Levitical line out from the 12 and called the other 11 the children of Israel. This distinction carries forward to Acts 5:21.

Okay? Now, what is the NT model? Melchizedek, assuming one does not shrink back, but the just shall live by faith (hearing/seeing the Word, Scripture guided by the Holy Spirit). We are the priesthood of believers. What model? Not the 1 and 11 of the OT Levitical priesthood (incidentally this is the RCC and others model), but this wherein all may be elders:

born-again from above, baby, weaned (from milk to meat), elder.

The part where you make the assumption that Exodus 20:19 is the cause of the setting up the Priesthood in Exodus 28:1-.

Eisegesis

and the part about all being elders.

Eisegesis

Forgive me...

So, you agree there was a singluar Levitical priesthood and 11 other tribes known as the children of Israel? But disagree as to why God did this?

Ex. 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Ex. 20:19 And they (the people) said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Ex. 28:1 And take thou (Moses) unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, [even] Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

Deut. 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of [that which is] before the priests the Levites:

2 Chron. 29:21 And they brought seven bullocks, and seven rams, and seven lambs, and seven he goats, for a sin offering for the kingdom, and for the sanctuary, and for Judah. And he commanded the priests the sons of Aaron to offer [them] on the altar of the LORD.

Clearly there is a distinction between the priests and the people. This was not the original intent in the OT, nor in the NT.

There is a different model shown in the NT for those of the lineage of the priesthood of Melchizedek with Jesus Christ as our High Priest. Surely you agree that Jesus was of the tribe of Judah? Change in the Law? Change of the priesthood?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Orthodox clergy (Priests) do not sacrifice animals...

Who teaches that "link" between Exodus 20:19 and Exodus 28 as you are prepared to offer it now?

If nobody but you, then Eisegesis it is...

Can you show me an example of The Church teaching that Exodus 20:19 is the cause for the creation of the Levite Priesthood in Exodus 28?

The Levites were the Children of Israel as well.

You are attempting to show that neither order of Priests OT and NT were not God's intention.

You are using Eisegesis to do this... attempting to make an idea fit scripture. This is not Apostolic teaching so your not going to find it taught anywhere.

Forgive me...

 

[JimfromOhio]

In the New Testament, Christ is both King and Priest, so shall believers be made kings and priests. Believers are a royal priesthood, another privilege with an Old Testament parallel. Not only are we priests, but we are also part of a royal household. That is a new concept because in the Old Testament, the offices of king and priest were kept separate.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

In the New Testament, Christ is both King and (High) Priest, so shall believers be made kings and priests. Believers are a royal priesthood, another privilege with an Old Testament parallel. Not only are we priests, but we are also part of a royal household. That is a new concept because in the Old Testament, the offices of king and priest were kept separate.

All true! My addition in red.

Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

Orthodox clergy (Priests) do not sacrifice animals...

Who teaches that "link" between Exodus 20:19 and Exodus 28 as you are prepared to offer it now?

If nobody but you, then Eisegesis it is...

Can you show me an example of The Church teaching that Exodus 20:19 is the cause for the creation of the Levite Priesthood in Exodus 28?

The Levites were the Children of Israel as well.

You are attempting to show that neither order of Priests OT and NT were not God's intention.

You are using Eisegesis to do this... attempting to make an idea fit scripture. This is not Apostolic teaching so your not going to find it taught anywhere.

Forgive me...

So, you agree there was a singluar Levitical priesthood and 11 other tribes known as the children of Israel? But disagree as to why God did this?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So, you agree there was a singluar Levitical priesthood and 11 other tribes known as the children of Israel? But disagree as to why God did this?

There were 12 tribes of Israel and one of them was Levite.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Exd 24:1 And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.

Exd 24:2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

Exd 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Exd 28:3 And thou shalt speak unto all [that are] wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

The reason is because God desired to be minister to. Not because men were afraid.

Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

Exd 28:3 And thou shalt speak unto all [that are] wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

The reason is because God desired to be minister to. Not because men were afraid.

Forgive me...

Heb. 12:18-21For ye are not come unto the mount (SINAI) that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which [voice] they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Yes, they were afraid. But you have not linked to two subjects together.

??????

show me something that says... because they were afraid, God chose to be ministered to through the Levites.

Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

Yes, they were afraid. But you have not linked to two subjects together.

??????

show me something that says... because they were afraid, God chose to be ministered to through the Levites.

Forgive me...

Okay, they were afraid. But God had said, you will be a kingdom of priests.

Kingdom implies a king. In this case, God. But His subjects refused to hear His voice. So, how will He rule? He set up the Levitical Priesthood who would transmit His laws and decrees, sacrifices, collect tithes, perform rites, etc. to the people.

The people who were afraid asked Moses to be the mediator. God agreed.

Today, if you will hear His voice, ... we have come to Zion.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

God agreed? Eisegesis.

It is improper to put two things together like that and say they are related. There really isn't anything to suggest that God was not going to create the Priesthood until the people were afraid.

That's Eisegesis, it's contrived.

In fact, I will go one step further and say that The Church has never taught the idea. Can you show me a homily or a sermon on the subject? Anything from the ECF's?

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Nation A stands on hill A.

Nation B stands on hill B.

Nation A has Priests within her, nation B does not.

When someone speaks of a "nation of Priests" he is identifying the nation of whom he speaks. He is not implying that every person in that nation is a Priest.

Priests worshiping before God happend then and it happens in eternity... witness the book of Revelation.

Are we to understand that we are not to have Priests in between? How likely is that really?

Where do these Priests in Revelation come from? It tells us they come from the great tribulation.

The great tribulation is yet to come, wouldn't we agree?

If Priests are not supposed to exist now... then how did they get into the great tribulation?

Forgive me...