The Return of My Ex Nihilo Challenge

[AV1611VET]

The earth's rotation -- in my opinion -- before the Fall, was 24.00000000000000 hours.

Today, the earth's rotation is 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.

If I'm right, how would this be possible without the Fall being the culprit?

 

[dlamberth]

Whether I understand it or not, I get the impression my questions generate a desire to jump in with scientific explanations about angular momentum and decay rates and laws of thermodynamics and the like, which explains how things work TODAY, but completely ignoring what I really want to know; which is, "What changed them from their original and intended duties?"

Nothing has changed. All of the Cosmos and everything in it is operating exactly as it originally formed. A cow is a cow. A dog is a dog. Gold is gold. Stars are stars. Human Being are Primates. And Pluto is a dwarf planet.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nothing has changed.

Ever heard of entropy?

As one poster here so aptly says:

Change is inevitable, care to spare some?

 

[dlamberth]

Ever heard of entropy?

As one poster here so aptly says:

Change is inevitable, care to spare some?

I'm not at all clear how entropy takes the cowness out of a cow. Or the dogness out of a dog. Or, to get a little mystical, how the essence of the Cosmos is taken out of this existence. Forms do change, but the forms are what they are.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not at all clear how entropy takes the cowness out of a cow. Or the dogness out of a dog.

... or drives the universe toward "heat death"?

 

[DamianWarS]

Now you're left having to explain why we need a leap year; as well as why entropy exists throughout the universe.

Leap years are needed because the earth's rotation (1 day) doesn't align with the earth revolutions (1 year) so at the end you have a partial rotation that if not counted would cause seasons to drift

Entropy is a description of the amount of order or randomness something has. Gen 1:2 would be a description of low entropy where as each created day gets more organized entropy increases. God introduces order (high entropy) to a system of chaos (low entropy), but 1:2 confirms that entropy was a pre-fall process. Our bodies for example are based on entropic systems in order to survive

Not to mention why we are sinners.

Sin is that which goes against God. We are innately sinful because we are not God.

And if the moon was created to rule the nighttime sky, why is there a time when it is out during the day (what we call "new moon")?

The earth has a rotation and the moon revolves around the earth. The two are not in sync thus the moon may be visible at different times during night or day sky.

Also, why is our magnetic field getting weaker? why is our moon receding from the earth at a rate of about 1.5 inches per year? why this and that?

The earth has a molten metal outer core which is responsible for it's magnetic poles. Because it's molten it moves through convection currents as well as the planets rotation that can naturally dift which may cause a pole reversal event. Leading up to this the dift may manifest as a weakened magnetic poles

The moon makes tidal forces on the earth that cause the earth to have increased drag and the moon increase energy. The increase engery causes the moon to increase its orbital speed which in turn expands its orbit.

The 6 days of creation are not really about these things, they can have broad agreement but there is no reason to think the pre-fall world had a different kind of physics than the post fall world. Entropy for example is a part of creation that can show us without outside intervention everything is moving towards chaos akin to a Gen 1:2 state. Spiritually speaking this is highly agreeable, we need to be under a constant influence of God to overcome spiritual entropy but if we ignore God we slowly fade away to oblivion, an everlasting death of sorts. But with Christ we have access to everlasting life and can over come entropic systems.

Day7 is opposite in all ways to Gen 1:2, contrasting light/darkness, rest/unrest, order/disorder, and broadly high/low entropy. With Christ we move to a more ordered state, without Christ we move to more disordered state and the creation account certainly shows us this process. It is a pre-fall gospel message using entropic systems to show the consequence/benefit

 

[Ophiolite]

The earth's rotation -- in my opinion -- before the Fall, was 24.00000000000000 hours.

Today, the earth's rotation is 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.

If I'm right, how would this be possible without the Fall being the culprit?

Your opinion in such matters has no value, since you ignore vast amounts of scientific and historical data, and have no scriptural support for your position. And speculation as to the reason for a nonsensical hypothesis is pointless.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your opinion in such matters has no value,

Maybe not to you.

But blaming God for creating a perfect universe is something I've been doing for a long time.

... since you ignore vast amounts of scientific and historical data,

What "vast amounts of scientific and historical data" specifically are you referring to?

I've defined Embedded Age as "maturity without history," so please tell me what historical data God should have inserted into His creation?

Had He done that, you realize, then academia would have been accusing Him of Last Thursdayism or Omphalism.

So please do tell me what historical data I'm ignoring.

... and have no scriptural support for your position.

What's this then?

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Do you seriously think He created the earth on its way to heat death, then pronounced it "very good"?

And speculation as to the reason for a nonsensical hypothesis is pointless.

A hypothesis is scientific.

Scientific means it hints of having evidence -- (at least on paper).

Please feel free to tell me what evidence-supported science applied during the creation week?

In the meantime, I'm not going to join the ranks of academia and blame God for creating a universe Last Thursday on its way to heat death.

You can -- but count me out.

 

[DamianWarS]

Maybe not to you.

But blaming God for creating a perfect universe is something I've been doing for a long time.



What "vast amounts of scientific and historical data" specifically are you referring to?

I've defined Embedded Age as "maturity without history," so please tell me what historical data God should have inserted into His creation?

Had He done that, you realize, then academia would have been accusing Him of Last Thursdayism or Omphalism.

So please do tell me what historical data I'm ignoring.



What's this then?

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Do you seriously think He created the earth on its way to heat death, then pronounced it "very good"?



A hypothesis is scientific.

Scientific means it hints of having evidence -- (at least on paper).

Please feel free to tell me what evidence-supported science applied during the creation week?

In the meantime, I'm not going to join the ranks of academia and blame God for creating a universe Last Thursday on its way to heat death.

You can -- but count me out.

These are misquoted. You've used my username for what appears to be a reply to what @Ophiolite posted

 

[AV1611VET]

These are misquoted. You've used my username for what appears to be a reply to what @Ophiolite posted.

Oh, dear!

My sincerest apologies!

I'll see if I can fix it.

ETA: All fixed! Sorry about that!

 

[dlamberth]

But blaming God for creating a perfect universe is something I've been doing for a long time.

I've also feel the blessing of the perfect Universe that God has Created. Everywhere I look, perfection abounds.

 

[AV1611VET]

I've also feel the blessing of the perfect Universe that God has Created.

Even a doctor with cancer can treat a patient with the flu.

Everywhere I look, perfection abounds.

What do you see here?

A beautiful geological formation?

Or a horrible crack in God's perfect creation caused by sin?

By the same token, what do you see here?

A beautiful apple?

Or a horrible mar in God's creation due to hail strikes?

 

[dlamberth]

What do you see here?

View attachment 369566

A beautiful geological formation?

Or a horrible crack in God's perfect creation caused by sin?

Oh...definitely a geological process that created this beautiful formation. I see no sin in Gods wonderful Earth Creation.

By the same token, what do you see here?

View attachment 369567

A beautiful apple?

Or a horrible mar in God's creation due to hail strikes?

I see a the beautiful process of nature in it's many forms. As an example, the opening in the apple becomes like a smorgasbord for many of God's Creatures. Their loving it. So it may look horrible to you, but not to God's Creatures.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh...definitely a geological process that created this beautiful formation.

You weren't there.

Hint: It was created in one man's lifetime.

I see no sin in Gods wonderful Earth Creation.

Rocks don't sin.

I see a the beautiful process of nature in it's many forms. As an example, the opening in the apple becomes like a smorgasbord for many of God's Creatures. Their loving it. So it may look horrible to you, but not to God's Creatures.

I honestly didn't think you would answer that way.

I have to admit, I thought I had you there on a "gotcha moment," but you caught me off guard with your honesty.

Good job.

So let me ramp it up a bit.

In your own words, describe the beauty you see here:

Is this illness -- introduced by Adam into this world?

Or do you see cooties having a wonderful time, compliments of a child supplying them with nourishment in love?

 

[dlamberth]

You weren't there.

No, I wasn't there. But the Earth is/was. And the Earth can tell it's own story.

Hint: It was created in one man's lifetime.

Nope...it took millions of years.

In your own words, describe the beauty you see here:

View attachment 369573

Is this illness -- introduced by Adam into this world?

Or do you see cooties having a wonderful time, compliments of a child supplying them with nourishment in love?

I look at it from several angles. For one, breaks my heart to see children, or anyone for that matter, suffering from illness. And I do what I can to help. From another angle, Life is Life as God Created it. And quite honestly, I see the activity of God experiencing the suffering of the child. It's one of the ways in which God experiences things like compassion and empathy and service to those in need. So even in the mist of suffering, that's a beautiful sight to behold.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, I wasn't there.

Yup.

But the Earth is/was.

Yup.

And the Earth can tell it's own story.

It had better tell it right, or there's going to be The Hellstrom Chronicle to pay.

Nope...it took millions of years.

Peleg must have lived a long time then!

I look at it from several angles.
...
So even in the mist of suffering, that's a beautiful sight to behold.

You realize I can make this much worse, don't you?

By showing you pictures of what Mother Earth can do, when scientists take her wisdom and knowledge and whip up a batch of her α-(N-phthalimido)glutarimide?

You know ... in an attempt to circumvent God's curse on women?

That sent them back to the drawing board quick, didn't it?

 

[dlamberth]

Yup.



Yup.



It had better tell it right, or there's going to be The Hellstrom Chronicle to pay.



Peleg must have lived a long time then!



You realize I can make this much worse, don't you?

By showing you pictures of what Mother Earth can do, when scientists take her wisdom and knowledge and whip up a batch of her α-(N-phthalimido)glutarimide?

You know ... in an attempt to circumvent God's curse on women?

That sent them back to the drawing board quick, didn't it?

You and I have very different experiences of God and the infinite extent of God's presence.

 

[AV1611VET]

You and I have very different experiences of God and the infinite extent of God's presence.

Do you know why?

 

[dlamberth]

Do you know why?

Yes, I do.

 

[Yttrium]

The earth's rotation -- in my opinion -- before the Fall, was 24.00000000000000 hours.

I would say that there was a moment in history when the Earth's rotation was just that. And faster before that.

Today, the earth's rotation is 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.

If I'm right, how would this be possible without the Fall being the culprit?

Known frictional forces gradually slowing the rotation down, until it eventually reaches a point of tidal lock.