The Resurrection

[Nihilist Virus]

David Blaine has produced illusions that we do not know how to duplicate. He has also accomplished physically extreme feats, such as fasting for 44 days and holding his breath for 17 minutes.

Suppose he were to die and that three days later some of his fans claimed his grave was empty. Don't you think someone would bother to go check if it actually happened? Couldn't it be an illusion or perhaps some other extreme physical feat in which he has feigned death?

So why is it that Jesus, who apparently performed more miracles than all of the books in the whole world could record, was said to have risen from the dead and yet no one bothered to go look? Whether sympathetic, antagonistic, or merely fascinated as a neutral observer, there was plenty of motivation to go and see for oneself that the tomb was empty. And yet there is no record of anyone visiting the tomb after Easter Sunday, and there was certainly no record of a neutral party making the trip.

Or did skeptics actually go visit? Why would it be the case that skeptics actually did visit the tomb, and yet the gospels did not record this? That would seem to cut against the narrative of the gospels, since everyone - including the disciples - were always skeptical of Jesus, and the gospels were always making a point of this.

The complete lack of an investigation for a miraculous event is in fact evidence that no miracle occurred in the first place.

 

[ChetSinger]

Or did skeptics actually go visit? Why would it be the case that skeptics actually did visit the tomb, and yet the gospels did not record this? That would seem to cut against the narrative of the gospels, since everyone - including the disciples - were always skeptical of Jesus, and the gospels were always making a point of this.

The complete lack of an investigation for a miraculous event is in fact evidence that no miracle occurred in the first place.

I must ask this: have you even read Matthew's account of the resurrection? The chief priests believed the tomb was empty because their own guards told them it was. So they paid off the guards to say that the disciples stole the body.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I must ask this: have you even read Matthew's account of the resurrection? The chief priests believed the tomb was empty because their own guards told them it was. So they paid off the guards to say that the disciples stole the body.

And the reason no one bothered to go look was because why? Ever drive on the freway? People slow down to look at a fender bender. Yet these people didn't go look at Jesus' latest, greatest miracle? Not even one rubber necker? Can you please explain why?

 

[ChetSinger]

And the reason no one bothered to go look was because why? Ever drive on the freway? People slow down to look at a fender bender. Yet these people didn't go look at Jesus' latest, greatest miracle? Not even one rubber necker? Can you please explain why?

The chief priests didn't bother because they trusted the words of their own guards. The public probably didn't bother because the chief priests had already provided them an explanation for it.

But here's the really big question, as I see it: How do you know nobody went?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

The chief priests didn't bother because they trusted the words of their own guards.

So they believed it was a miracle? So where was their effort in trying to locate the risen Jesus?

The public probably didn't bother because the chief priests had already provided them an explanation for it.

So if David Blane's body was "stolen," nobody would bother to go look, right?

But here's the really big question, as I see it: How do you know nobody went?

Why would it be the case that skeptics actually did visit the tomb, and yet the gospels did not record this? That would seem to cut against the narrative of the gospels, since everyone - including the disciples - were always skeptical of Jesus, and the gospels were always making a point of this.

 

[Wgw]

Being a lookieloo was rather more difficult in the first century with no motorcars, and much less free time.

That said the Gospels do indicate that several people did bother to look.

I will also note that fasting for 44 days isn't anything special; an Armenian fasted earlier this year at St. Leon's for more than fifty in memory of the genocide. If David Blaine did something really interesting, like rise from the dead after three days, then he would justifiably become the center of religious veneration.

That said, I don't see that David Blaine has had anything interesting to say about the human condition that compares with what our Lord said.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

And the reason no one bothered to go look was because why? Ever drive on the freway? People slow down to look at a fender bender. Yet these people didn't go look at Jesus' latest, greatest miracle? Not even one rubber necker? Can you please explain why?

I am just trying to catch up on the forum so forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Did not the previous post show that people did in fact go to the tomb to see for themselves?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

That said the Gospels do indicate that several people did bother to look.

Somebody besides the disciples and the women? Who?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I am just trying to catch up on the forum so forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Did not the previous post show that people did in fact go to the tomb to see for themselves?

You mean the one I hadn't had a chance to reply to before you said that? Well, no, it didn't show that. It claimed something, but I'm not sure what.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You mean the one I hadn't had a chance to reply to before you said that? Well, no, it didn't show that. It claimed something, but I'm not sure what.

I believe you claimed that nobody cared enough to see for themselves if the tomb was empty. Then someone referenced Matthew in order to show that your claim was incorrect. That people did in fact go see the tomb for themselves. The skeptic leadership sent guards to look into the matter and give a report.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I believe you claimed that nobody cared enough to see for themselves if the tomb was empty.

Yes.

Then someone referenced Matthew in order to show that your claim was incorrect.

No. ChetSinger referenced Matthew to show that the Jewish leaders were told what happened and they responded with bribery, but in the end he confirmed my position: that no one outside of Christ's circle visited the tomb.

That people did in fact go see the tomb for themselves.

Wgw claimed that and, once again, I am awaiting clarification.

The skeptic leadership sent guards to look into the matter and give a report.

This would answer my question and close the thread.

 

[Wgw]

Yes.



No. ChetSinger referenced Matthew to show that the Jewish leaders were told what happened and they responded with bribery, but in the end he confirmed my position: that no one outside of Christ's circle visited the tomb.



Wgw claimed that and, once again, I am awaiting clarification.



This would answer my question and close the thread.

You should simply accept my infallible word for it on the basis of sola wgw.

Or alternately simply read the Gospel verses in question. Come to think of it, that's the right approach, eh?

 

[anonymous person]

David Blaine has produced illusions that we do not know how to duplicate. He has also accomplished physically extreme feats, such as fasting for 44 days and holding his breath for 17 minutes.

Suppose he were to die and that three days later some of his fans claimed his grave was empty. Don't you think someone would bother to go check if it actually happened? Couldn't it be an illusion or perhaps some other extreme physical feat in which he has feigned death?

So why is it that Jesus, who apparently performed more miracles than all of the books in the whole world could record, was said to have risen from the dead and yet no one bothered to go look? Whether sympathetic, antagonistic, or merely fascinated as a neutral observer, there was plenty of motivation to go and see for oneself that the tomb was empty. And yet there is no record of anyone visiting the tomb after Easter Sunday, and there was certainly no record of a neutral party making the trip.

Or did skeptics actually go visit? Why would it be the case that skeptics actually did visit the tomb, and yet the gospels did not record this? That would seem to cut against the narrative of the gospels, since everyone - including the disciples - were always skeptical of Jesus, and the gospels were always making a point of this.

The complete lack of an investigation for a miraculous event is in fact evidence that no miracle occurred in the first place.

To the first two questions I answer "yes". To the third I will ask you to provide evidence for the truth claim you made, namely, that no one checked the tomb. What evidence do you have to support that knowledge claim?

 

[anonymous person]

Brothers and sisters who desire to write a response, remember to demand evidence from this person making truth claims. Make him shoulder his burden.

 

[Alla27]

Or did skeptics actually go visit? Why would it be the case that skeptics actually did visit the tomb, and yet the gospels did not record this?
That would seem to cut against the narrative of the gospels, since everyone - including the disciples - were always skeptical of Jesus, and the gospels were always making a point of this.
The complete lack of an investigation for a miraculous event is in fact evidence that no miracle occurred in the first place.

The most important what disciples did and not those who were skeptical. That is why it is not in the gospels.
Who cares what skeptics did?
BTW, even if it was recorded in the gospels it wouldn't convince you that Jesus was resurrected.

 

[Tree of Life]

David Blaine has produced illusions that we do not know how to duplicate. He has also accomplished physically extreme feats, such as fasting for 44 days and holding his breath for 17 minutes.

Suppose he were to die and that three days later some of his fans claimed his grave was empty. Don't you think someone would bother to go check if it actually happened? Couldn't it be an illusion or perhaps some other extreme physical feat in which he has feigned death?

So why is it that Jesus, who apparently performed more miracles than all of the books in the whole world could record, was said to have risen from the dead and yet no one bothered to go look? Whether sympathetic, antagonistic, or merely fascinated as a neutral observer, there was plenty of motivation to go and see for oneself that the tomb was empty. And yet there is no record of anyone visiting the tomb after Easter Sunday, and there was certainly no record of a neutral party making the trip.

Or did skeptics actually go visit? Why would it be the case that skeptics actually did visit the tomb, and yet the gospels did not record this? That would seem to cut against the narrative of the gospels, since everyone - including the disciples - were always skeptical of Jesus, and the gospels were always making a point of this.

The complete lack of an investigation for a miraculous event is in fact evidence that no miracle occurred in the first place.

What do you expect that such evidence would look like? A legal document from Pontus Pilate saying that the tomb was investigated?

 

[Wgw]

What do you expect that such evidence would look like? A legal document from Pontus Pilate saying that the tomb was investigated?

Which amusingly enough exists, although it is widely regarded as being spurious, a pious forgery; it does exist, however.

 

[createdtoworship]

And the reason no one bothered to go look was because why? Ever drive on the freway? People slow down to look at a fender bender. Yet these people didn't go look at Jesus' latest, greatest miracle? Not even one rubber necker? Can you please explain why?

How do you know they didn't look?

Did your surveillance cameras of the garden tomb, reveal that no one came?

For all you know they went, and wrote about the story and their scrolls are not yet found.

So we don't know if they did, and nor do we know for a fact they did not.

we really don't know anything other than whoever this man was.....Jesus....His message did not die with persecution either from roman, or from church persuation and this is why we read all about it in the numerous stories of people not only dying for the message, but NOT dying for a lie.

if the resurrection were not true, and the diciples stole the body and buried it, threw it in the lake, or whatever......they later on when persecution came, they could have easily stated......'it's all a fabrication." WE did it" but as told by foxe's book of maryters.....peter dies upside down on a cross, and james and many other apostles died when all they had to say was a few words....."the resurrection was a lie."

but again that is off topic.

to keep this thread on topic, you would need to merely be talking about WHY we don't have evidence for rubber necking....

and I have already answered that two ways, let me add to that..

#1 they could have rubber necked......and we have not dug up the scrolls yet.

#2 they could have and never wrote it down.

#3 they could have been afraid of the numerous roman presence that already was accusing them of a stolen corps of the Christ, and likely being imprisoned or tortured for the location of a resurrected Christ.....which they would not have known.

.....

so there really is no discussion of this topic.

as it has been answered.

 

[Chesterton]

So why is it that Jesus, who apparently performed more miracles than all of the books in the whole world could record, was said to have risen from the dead and yet no one bothered to go look? Whether sympathetic, antagonistic, or merely fascinated as a neutral observer, there was plenty of motivation to go and see for oneself that the tomb was empty. And yet there is no record of anyone visiting the tomb after Easter Sunday, and there was certainly no record of a neutral party making the trip.

People who were sympathetic or merely fascinated would have told the truth, which is the record we have. So if an antagonistic person investigated and found an empty tomb, what do you think they would do? Report the truth which was against their interest? Are you disappointed that no antagonist was able to successfully lie about the resurrection?

 

[cloudyday2]

The empty tomb would not be very interesting. Not even the women who discovered the empty tomb saw this as evidence of anything supernatural. They needed to see the resurrected Jesus to understand that the empty tomb was the result of a miracle.

One of those books mentions Jesus appearing to a group of several hundred followers before ascending to heaven from a mountain top. I assume those followers gathered in expectation of seeing Jesus.