The Resurrection of Jesus

[Jesus is YHWH]

You have an over-inflated view of your opinions.

the OP is the Resurrection with 15 chapter references. To bad you have such a low view of Scripture on the Resurrection.

you have an underinflated view of scripture.

Why is that ?

 

[Saint Steven]

the OP is the Resurrection with 15 chapter references. To bad you have such a low view of Scripture on the Resurrection.

you have an underinflated view of scripture.

Why is that ?

This proves my point about hairsplitting.
You expect the average Christian to align with all your fine points (15 chapter references), otherwise you falsely accuse them of not believing in the resurrection. Ridiculous.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

This proves my point about hairsplitting.
You expect the average Christian to align with all your fine points (15 chapter references), otherwise you falsely accuse them of not believing in the resurrection. Ridiculous.

if you don't believe Scripture then you don't have faith to begin with ..........

no resurrection no salvation, no gospel since the bodily Resurrection of Jesus is at the CORE/CENTER of the gospel message.

next....................................

 

[Saint Steven]

if you don't believe Scripture then you don't have faith to begin with ..........

no resurrection no salvation, no gospel since the bodily Resurrection of Jesus is at the CORE/CENTER of the gospel message.

next....................................

There you go jumping to conclusions. More evidence of hairsplitting.
When did I say that I didn't believe in the resurrection?

Besides, no one is saved by doctrine. No one.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

There you go jumping to conclusions. More evidence of hairsplitting.
When did I say that I didn't believe in the resurrection?

Besides, no one is saved by doctrine. No one.

a person cannot be saved without hearing it since its the core teaching of the gospel.

so you can continue making excuses but thats a biblical fact as per 1 Corinthians 15

no on is saved by a false god and christ ..............

you can't believe in who you do not know and the only way to know is from scripture where sound doctrine is found.

 

[Saint Steven]

a person cannot be saved without hearing it since its the core teaching of the gospel.

so you can continue making excuses but thats a biblical fact as per 1 Corinthians 15

no on is saved by a false god and christ ..............

you can't believe in who you do not know and the only way to know is from scripture where sound doctrine is found.

That's a very narrow view.
Salvation is about a restored relationship with God. Doctrine has nothing to do with it.
People that God draws to himself are clueless about doctrine. (for the most part) Doctrine is something they learn later. There are even classes with stupid names like: Know what you believe. (seriously? - lol)

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

That's a very narrow view.
Salvation is about a restored relationship with God. Doctrine has nothing to do with it.
People that God draws to himself are clueless about doctrine. (for the most part) Doctrine is something they learn later. There are even classes with stupid names like: Know what you believe. (seriously? - lol)

unbelievable that you do not know the gospel is the power of God unto Salvation. Romans 1:16

And the gospel of our salvation defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-18.

by which we are saved

" I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved,"

 

[Saint Steven]

unbelievable that you do not know the gospel is the power of God unto Salvation. Romans 1:16

And the gospel of our salvation defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-18.

by which we are saved

" I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved,"

The gospel message is not doctrine. No one is saved by doctrine.

And you mentioned earlier that there are three levels of salvation.
We are saved, we are being saved and we will be saved.

Doctrine really only applies to the process of "being saved". As we sort through what it is about. We have catechism for the kids once they come of age and Bible studies for the adults. Those who are called to the ministry go to a seminary (Cemetery?) to get a degree in Theology.

If we were saved by doctrine, those graduating seminary would be most saved. And everyone else would be less saved. But that's not how it works.

The scripture you quoted even divides the experience into two parts. It reads, "... the gospel... which you received and on which you have taken your stand."

Initially we just receive it. (the gospel, not doctrine) later, we learn more about it (this is where doctrine comes in) and take a stand with it. (the gospel, not doctrine)

This may be where your claims are off kilter. You seem to have lost the simplicity and universal reach of the gospel message, and have replaced it with your preferred narrow slice of doctrine. Thus marginalizing anyone that doesn't track with your personal doctrinal hairsplitting. Then this dogma is presented as absolute truth that cannot be challenged. Even claiming it is God's word, in order to trump the argument and dismiss anyone that doesn't align lock-step with the presentation.

The gospel is bigger than doctrine. It crosses all boundaries and finds us where we are. It matters not who we are, or where we are from. It reaches out to the well-educated and to the simple minded. We even need to receive it like a child. Ask a five year old what they know about doctrine. (deer in the headlights look) Now ask them about God's love for us. See the difference?

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's a very narrow view.
Salvation is about a restored relationship with God. Doctrine has nothing to do with it.
People that God draws to himself are clueless about doctrine. (for the most part) Doctrine is something they learn later. There are even classes with stupid names like: Know what you believe. (seriously? - lol)

 

[parousia70]

1 John 3:2 is apocalyptical looking forward to His 2nd Advent.

And yet you claim the apocalypse and His second advent has nothing to do with the resurrection??

Seriously?

Read Revelation the vision given to John. Revelation was written after 1 John. So at the time John did not have that future revelation.

And Your point is?

And no one sees Him now on this earth which is why John writes to his readers we eagerly await His future coming when we will be like Him.

Yet again, if your opinion were correct, that John, as an eyewitness to the resurrected Jesus, had in fact seen Christ's Glorified Body that He has now, he would not, in fact COULD NOT have said:

"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

You argue with scripture, not with me.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The gospel message is not doctrine. No one is saved by doctrine.

And you mentioned earlier that there are three levels of salvation.
We are saved, we are being saved and we will be saved.

Doctrine really only applies to the process of "being saved". As we sort through what it is about. We have catechism for the kids once they come of age and Bible studies for the adults. Those who are called to the ministry go to a seminary (Cemetery?) to get a degree in Theology.

If we were saved by doctrine, those graduating seminary would be most saved. And everyone else would be less saved. But that's not how it works.

The scripture you quoted even divides the experience into two parts. It reads, "... the gospel... which you received and on which you have taken your stand."

Initially we just receive it. (the gospel, not doctrine) later, we learn more about it (this is where doctrine comes in) and take a stand with it. (the gospel, not doctrine)

This may be where your claims are off kilter. You seem to have lost the simplicity and universal reach of the gospel message, and have replaced it with your preferred narrow slice of doctrine. Thus marginalizing anyone that doesn't track with your personal doctrinal hairsplitting. Then this dogma is presented as absolute truth that cannot be challenged. Even claiming it is God's word, in order to trump the argument and dismiss anyone that doesn't align lock-step with the presentation.

The gospel is bigger than doctrine. It crosses all boundaries and finds us where we are. It matters not who we are, or where we are from. It reaches out to the well-educated and to the simple minded. We even need to receive it like a child. Ask a five year old what they know about doctrine. (deer in the headlights look) Now ask them about God's love for us. See the difference?

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's a very narrow view.
Salvation is about a restored relationship with God. Doctrine has nothing to do with it.
People that God draws to himself are clueless about doctrine. (for the most part) Doctrine is something they learn later. There are even classes with stupid names like: Know what you believe. (seriously? - lol)

Since you always oppose me I will let this sink in below. You cannot seperate the gospel from doctrine they are one in the same. If you do ot take my word for it then take if from Macalister below from focus magazine. Every Scholar and Pastor worth a grain of salt would agree.

Sometimes you will hear (or read) that the gospel is strictly the story about Jesus which is contained in the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Doctrines, on the other hand, are thought of as “other” important ideas in the Bible. One idea that seems to be particularly popular today is that doctrines are man-made ideas or religious traditions (and thus fallible), whereas only “gospel” comes from God. That is, the idea is that the gospel comes from the Bible, but doctrines have come from the church. Even in our own fellowship we sometimes hear similar things, suggesting that we should just preach the gospel and forget about doctrines.

So just what is the difference between gospel and doctrine? I would suggest that the difference is minimal, almost non-existent. First, the gospel is, at its core, the story about Jesus. In particular, it is the story of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. This is what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15.1-4: “Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.” That’s the “core,” but we realize that there is a story that leads up to, and explains, the death of Jesus – and all of that is part of the gospel too. The gospel, then, is the story of Jesus.

So what is “doctrine”? A good example of a doctrine appears right there in the text we just quoted, in the words “for our sins.” If we think of the gospel as the story, then doctrine is the explanation, the interpretation, or the significance of the story. Or think about the Biblical doctrine concerning idolatry. The apostles taught that Christians should stay away from every form of idolatry (whether it involves a statue or not; Col 3.5). Where did this doctrine come from? Why did the apostles teach it? The answer is that fleeing from idolatry is part of what it means to die with Christ, to crucify the old man of sin, to crucify the flesh and die to the world. The dying of Christ, when it is applied to us as an example to follow, means that we must not (among other things) be involved in idolatry. You see, the doctrine is an explanation, application, or interpretation, of something that is already in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Where did the doctrine of baptism come from? Right – from the story of Jesus. Baptism is an imitation of and joining with Jesus in His death (Rom 6.3). Where did the doctrine of brotherly love come from? Right again – it came from the story of Jesus, because His death was the expression of His love for others, and are commanded to follow that example in our treatment of others. What about the Biblical doctrine of sin? It is clearly implied in the death of Jesus, since His death was “for our sins.”

In a sense, it goes back to what Jesus said in Matthew 16.24: “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.” Jesus said that the story of His own life – culminating and climaxing in His own death, burial, and resurrection – must become the pattern of living for every one of His disciples. Jesus said that the gospel must be applied to our lives, that we must live like what we see in the gospel (the story of Jesus). The Biblical doctrines that instruct us how to think and live are nothing other than the gospel put into practice.

I would suggest that whatever you find in the New Testament that could be called doctrine, it always, ultimately goes back to the story of Jesus, the gospel. That is, the doctrine is an explanation, interpretation, or application of what we find in the gospel, the story of Jesus. The doctrines are directly linked to the gospel or come straight from the gospel. Or, if you will, the doctrines are another way of saying what the gospel says. That is, doctrines are not the invention of churches. Doctrines come from the gospel.

Once we see this, the supposed distinction between gospel and doctrine basically vanishes. Or, to say it another way, gospel and doctrine are so inseparably linked, glued, and tied together that where you have one, you always have the other. This is why the apostles keep mentioning “the gospel” in their letters to Christians (74 times!), because the gospel and Christian doctrine are really, after all, the same thing.

The larger fact is that everything in the Bible is ultimately about Jesus. That’s right, everything. The Old Testament with is various stories, people, laws, institutions, etc. – all of those things pointed to Jesus in one way or another. The interpretive key to it all is Jesus (2 Cor 4.16). Think of how often the New Testament authors quoted the Old Testament as containing a pattern for something in Christianity. This only “works” if everything in the Old Testament leads us to the Messiah, Jesus. The result is that every Biblical doctrine, therefore, has something to do with the gospel.Gospel and Doctrine

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

And yet you claim the apocalypse and His second advent has nothing to do with the resurrection??

Seriously?



And Your point is?



Yet again, if your opinion were correct, that John, as an eyewitness to the resurrected Jesus, had in fact seen Christ's Glorified Body that He has now, he would not, in fact COULD NOT have said:

"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

You argue with scripture, not with me.

I see you continue to avoid 1 Corinthians 15 which is the gospel and refuse to exegete its context. Get back to me when you can deal with the context of it and provide some kind of cogent response.

FYI- you contradict scripture not me.

Thank you !

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Below is a BIBLICAL FACT from the oldest book in the bible.

Job 19:26
King James Bible
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Yes the Resurrection is REAL FLESH just as Jesus declared in Luke 24:39

hope this helps !!!

Don't be so sure of yourself.
Brown-Driver-Briggs
מִבְּשָׂרִי apart from my body, in disembodied state Job 19:26;

Barnes:
In view of this exposition of the words, I would translate the whole passage as follows:
For I know that my Avenger liveth,
And that hereafter he shall stand upon the earth;
And though after my skin this (flesh) shall be destroyed,
Yet even without my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself,

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

and others say what I said. believe what you want ed.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

and others say what I said. believe what you want ed.

You also.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You also.

Care to address 1 Corinthians and the points made in that chapter on the resurrection ?

 

[parousia70]

I see you continue to avoid 1 Corinthians 15 which is the gospel and refuse to exegete its context. Get back to me when you can deal with the context of it and provide some kind of cogent response.

The bible uses the term "resurrection" of national restorations (Isa 26:13-14,19-20/ Ez 37), personal salvation/baptism, the transfer of departed souls in the O.T. Hades/Sheol into God's heaven, and the final state of all things.

The bible never teaches "resurrection of flesh" anywhere. It teaches "resurrection of the dead" or "resurrection out from among the dead." The dead were in Hades.

God unites our spirits to heavenly, spiritual bodies fit for eternity in God's transcendent paradise. The experience is bodily, a "spiritual body." (1 Cor 15:44-50). Remember, even in this earthly realm, God created for us a soul and body in our mothers' wombs.

1 Corinthians 15:35--38
But some will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool! That which thou sowest is not made alive, UNLESS IT DIE:
And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be , but some bare grain... But God giveth it a body

This passage, along with 2 Cor 5:1-2, so clearly shows that our second body ("house", "tabernacle") is a building "FROM GOD and ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS. How the saints are raised is tied to the sowing of the natural body and receiving the heavenly spiritual body that God gives in Heaven. Remember, thou sowest not that body that shall be.

The seed dies. So also does Resurrection of the Dead come via physical death. The inner life contained in a seed AT DEATH is activated and it grows to become a NEW BODY, not the body that was sown (1 Cor 15:36-37). The natural body is the seed that dies. The spiritual body is the Apple Tree. The natural body is the seed that dies. The spiritual body is not another seed but is an apple tree -- a NEW BODY THAT GOD GIVES. A body that comes from Heaven (2 Cor 5:2). Hallelujah. It is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY (1 Cor 15:44). The body which you sow is NOT the body that shall be (1 Cor 15:37). But GOD GIVES IT A BODY (1 Cor 15:38). As we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also BEAR THE IMAGE OF THE HEAVENLY. (1 Cor 15:49). The image of the earthly and the image of the Heavenly are totally different -- they have an entirely different physics. "For the things that are seen are temporal, but the things that are not seen are eternal" (2 Cor 4:18).

Post Ascension, Christ appears to Paul as a LIGHT, but no man (Acts 9:3, 7-8). Therefore we understand that the NATURE of a heavenly spiritual body is NOT the same as our earthly bodies (1 Cor 15:44-50). Therefore we may boldly say with the apostle Paul that "though we have known Christ after the flesh, we know him in this way no longer" (2 Cor 5:16). We may boldly call Jesus the King Eternal Immortal INVISIBLE (1 Tim 1:17) and say that "he alone has immortality dwelling in light which no man has seen NOR CAN SEE (1 Tim 6:16). These are ALL proper understandings of Christ's post ascension body. Christ's spiritual body is simply not limited to his incarnational earthly body any more, and even WE here and now are mystically part of that Body of Christ. His body is a mystery (Eph 5:30-32).

THE TIMING OF RESURRECTION
Paul clearly sees the victory of resurrection coming at the end of the Old Testamental period, which is why he believed that his generation would live until that event (Paul says "WE who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord... -- 1 Thess 4:15) and proclaims it was ABOUT TO happen in Acts:

Acts 24:15
"there is ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous"

Acts 17:31
because He did set a day in which He is ABOUT TO judge the world in righteousness

2 Timothy 4:1
I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who IS ABOUT TO JUDGE the living and dead at his manifestation

Paul does NOT believe those events were thousands of years into the future, but rather were to transpire with the passing away of the Old Covenant universe in his own generation. Paul ties the institution of Resurrection to the removal of THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES. We can see in 1 Cor 15 how Paul ties the victory of resurrection to the end of the LAW AGE.

THE STING OF DEATH IS SIN AND THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW OF MOSES
Paul's famous and triumphant summary of his teaching on resurrection is indeed tied to the end of the LAW AGE and not the end of the New Covenant Age. Paul teaches that the sting and victory of death (which futurists teach have not yet been eradicated) exists due to SIN POWERED BY THE LAW OF MOSES! (1 Cor 15:56).
Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory [55] where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?'[56] And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW

Paul's teaching that the Law of Moses is the code that gives power to sin and therefore death can be found fully developed in Romans 7:5-14. Only by the removal of the Law and its earthly curses and Temple would the Temple in Heaven be opened up to receive the dead out of the hadean realm (Hebrews 9:8; 1 Cor 15:55-56). THIS Resurrection of the OT Dead out of Hades occured at the end of the Old Covenant Age.

SUMMARY:
Futurists should know there is no end of the New Covenant Age, yet they conjure one up based on the assumption that surely the New Covenant Age must precede the end of death via the institution of Resurrection. As Paul's own teaching in 1 Corinthians 15:55-56 shows, the end of death via the institution of RESURRECTION is actually tied to the removal of THE LAW OF MOSES which was the power of sin and death.

Resurrection of the O.T. dead out of Hades to enter into Heaven came, on time, as prophesied, at the end of the Old Covenant Age. Just as the salvation of the Chosen for all time past, present, and future occured at a fixed point in history (the 1st century), so also did the victory of Resurrection once the Law of Moses that empowered sin and death was fully removed from the face of the planet.

Finally, if one should deny that 1 Cor 15:54-56 is fulfilled then they MUST join the Roman Catholics on the doctrine of Purgatory, for the Hades of 1 Cor 15:55-56 does not become part of Hell until Revelation 20:12-15! For futurists, this means Hades ("Sheol" in hebrew and "Purgatorio" in Latin) is still in existence exactly as the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The bible uses the term "resurrection" of national restorations (Isa 26:13-14,19-20/ Ez 37), personal salvation/baptism, the transfer of departed souls in the O.T. Hades/Sheol into God's heaven, and the final state of all things.

The bible never teaches "resurrection of flesh" anywhere. It teaches "resurrection of the dead" or "resurrection out from among the dead." The dead were in Hades.

God unites our spirits to heavenly, spiritual bodies fit for eternity in God's transcendent paradise. The experience is bodily, a "spiritual body." (1 Cor 15:44-50). Remember, even in this earthly realm, God created for us a soul and body in our mothers' wombs.

1 Corinthians 15:35--38
But some will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool! That which thou sowest is not made alive, UNLESS IT DIE:
And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be , but some bare grain... But God giveth it a body

This passage, along with 2 Cor 5:1-2, so clearly shows that our second body ("house", "tabernacle") is a building "FROM GOD and ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS. How the saints are raised is tied to the sowing of the natural body and receiving the heavenly spiritual body that God gives in Heaven. Remember, thou sowest not that body that shall be.

The seed dies. So also does Resurrection of the Dead come via physical death. The inner life contained in a seed AT DEATH is activated and it grows to become a NEW BODY, not the body that was sown (1 Cor 15:36-37). The natural body is the seed that dies. The spiritual body is the Apple Tree. The natural body is the seed that dies. The spiritual body is not another seed but is an apple tree -- a NEW BODY THAT GOD GIVES. A body that comes from Heaven (2 Cor 5:2). Hallelujah. It is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY (1 Cor 15:44). The body which you sow is NOT the body that shall be (1 Cor 15:37). But GOD GIVES IT A BODY (1 Cor 15:38). As we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also BEAR THE IMAGE OF THE HEAVENLY. (1 Cor 15:49). The image of the earthly and the image of the Heavenly are totally different -- they have an entirely different physics. "For the things that are seen are temporal, but the things that are not seen are eternal" (2 Cor 4:18).

Post Ascension, Christ appears to Paul as a LIGHT, but no man (Acts 9:3, 7-8). Therefore we understand that the NATURE of a heavenly spiritual body is NOT the same as our earthly bodies (1 Cor 15:44-50). Therefore we may boldly say with the apostle Paul that "though we have known Christ after the flesh, we know him in this way no longer" (2 Cor 5:16). We may boldly call Jesus the King Eternal Immortal INVISIBLE (1 Tim 1:17) and say that "he alone has immortality dwelling in light which no man has seen NOR CAN SEE (1 Tim 6:16). These are ALL proper understandings of Christ's post ascension body. Christ's spiritual body is simply not limited to his incarnational earthly body any more, and even WE here and now are mystically part of that Body of Christ. His body is a mystery (Eph 5:30-32).

THE TIMING OF RESURRECTION
Paul clearly sees the victory of resurrection coming at the end of the Old Testamental period, which is why he believed that his generation would live until that event (Paul says "WE who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord... -- 1 Thess 4:15) and proclaims it was ABOUT TO happen in Acts:

Acts 24:15
"there is ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous"

Acts 17:31
because He did set a day in which He is ABOUT TO judge the world in righteousness

2 Timothy 4:1
I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who IS ABOUT TO JUDGE the living and dead at his manifestation

Paul does NOT believe those events were thousands of years into the future, but rather were to transpire with the passing away of the Old Covenant universe in his own generation. Paul ties the institution of Resurrection to the removal of THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES. We can see in 1 Cor 15 how Paul ties the victory of resurrection to the end of the LAW AGE.

THE STING OF DEATH IS SIN AND THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW OF MOSES
Paul's famous and triumphant summary of his teaching on resurrection is indeed tied to the end of the LAW AGE and not the end of the New Covenant Age. Paul teaches that the sting and victory of death (which futurists teach have not yet been eradicated) exists due to SIN POWERED BY THE LAW OF MOSES! (1 Cor 15:56).
Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory [55] where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?'[56] And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW

Paul's teaching that the Law of Moses is the code that gives power to sin and therefore death can be found fully developed in Romans 7:5-14. Only by the removal of the Law and its earthly curses and Temple would the Temple in Heaven be opened up to receive the dead out of the hadean realm (Hebrews 9:8; 1 Cor 15:55-56). THIS Resurrection of the OT Dead out of Hades occured at the end of the Old Covenant Age.

SUMMARY:
Futurists should know there is no end of the New Covenant Age, yet they conjure one up based on the assumption that surely the New Covenant Age must precede the end of death via the institution of Resurrection. As Paul's own teaching in 1 Corinthians 15:55-56 shows, the end of death via the institution of RESURRECTION is actually tied to the removal of THE LAW OF MOSES which was the power of sin and death.

Resurrection of the O.T. dead out of Hades to enter into Heaven came, on time, as prophesied, at the end of the Old Covenant Age. Just as the salvation of the Chosen for all time past, present, and future occured at a fixed point in history (the 1st century), so also did the victory of Resurrection once the Law of Moses that empowered sin and death was fully removed from the face of the planet.

Finally, if one should deny that 1 Cor 15:54-56 is fulfilled then they MUST join the Roman Catholics on the doctrine of Purgatory, for the Hades of 1 Cor 15:55-56 does not become part of Hell until Revelation 20:12-15! For futurists, this means Hades ("Sheol" in hebrew and "Purgatorio" in Latin) is still in existence exactly as the Catholic Church teaches.

I have already debunked your argument earlier in this thread regarding soma and pheumatikos and how you have misused them above. Here it is in the " CONTEXT" of 1 Corinthians 15. Body is never used by Paul as immaterial as you have "claimed" in your response and spiritual does not mean non physical as well as I have provided the context from the passage refuting your position on the nature of spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.


These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees with me regarding the Resurrected BODY(SOMA).

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓma – the physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Cor 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44 (see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body

Thayers Greek Lexicon

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Cor 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Cor 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

A spiritual man is one who is controlled by the Spirit not the flesh.
A spiritual body is one that is controlled by the spirit , glorified and transformed from mortal to immortal, corruptible to incorruptible but is still a
real physical body(soma).

The same is true with the spiritual drink, spiritual rock and spiritual food ( manna). All were physical rocks, water and food but were supernaturally provided by God , hence they were SPIRITUAL just like the spiritual man who has a real physical body.

So in the Resurrection our spiritual bodies( soma) are still physical bodies controlled completely by the Spirit. Our heavenly bodies will be transformed from mortal to immortal, corruptible to incorruptible.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Post Ascension, Christ appears to Paul as a LIGHT, but no man (Acts 9:3, 7-8). Therefore we understand that the NATURE of a heavenly spiritual body is NOT the same as our earthly bodies (1 Cor 15:44-50). Therefore we may boldly say with the apostle Paul that "though we have known Christ after the flesh, we know him in this way no longer" (2 Cor 5:16). We may boldly call Jesus the King Eternal Immortal INVISIBLE (1 Tim 1:17) and say that "he alone has immortality dwelling in light which no man has seen NOR CAN SEE (1 Tim 6:16).

You have made another error above as Jesus said no man has seen the Father. Its the Father not the Son who is invisible and who is in unapproachable light. NEVER is the Son ever said to be invisible, unapproachable and the Son has been seen by many pre and post Resurrection.


John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

1 Timothy 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:13-16
I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

1 John 4:12
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

 

[Saint Steven]

Sometimes you will hear (or read) that the gospel is strictly the story about Jesus which is contained in the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Doctrines, on the other hand, are thought of as “other” important ideas in the Bible. One idea that seems to be particularly popular today is that doctrines are man-made ideas or religious traditions (and thus fallible), whereas only “gospel” comes from God. That is, the idea is that the gospel comes from the Bible, but doctrines have come from the church. Even in our own fellowship we sometimes hear similar things, suggesting that we should just preach the gospel and forget about doctrines.

Thanks for taking the time to detail out your position on this. I appreciate the effort.
I chose the second paragraph to respond to, but will respond in general to the whole thing.

Yes, I certainly see doctrines as man-made. An attempt to codify what we believe.
And the creeds were created to do this as well, but in a very concise manner.
The later creeds were created to include more doctrinal hairsplitting than the previous ones. A product of committees with a broader range of doctrinal beliefs to satisfy.

And this is where the problem comes in. If we claim that doctrines are the gospel, or that the gospel is doctrine, who's doctrine will we use? There is a broad range of doctrinal opinion. Do a search on the term "doctrinal disagreement", and see what comes up.

The point I have always insisted on here is that God approaches individuals in their complete ignorance of doctrine. Restoring a relationship with Him is all that matters. Doctrine has nothing to do with it. The individual has a spiritual void that only God's presence can fill. That is enough. Doctrine comes later, if at all. No one is saved by doctrine.