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The Restitution Of All Things

Lazarus Short

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Not according to God.
"Has not My hand made all these things?’ 51You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did. 52Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One. And now you are His betrayers and murderers—…"

"You always resist the Holy Spirit..." But - Resistance is futile. The logical extension of extending "always resist" to "able to resist God forever" is the conclusion that God is NOT sovereign. But He is.
 
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renniks

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"You always resist the Holy Spirit..." But - Resistance is futile. The logical extension of extending "always resist" to "able to resist God forever" is the conclusion that God is NOT sovereign. But He is.
Depends on how he chooses to rule. And obviously he has not chosen to force anyone to obey.
 
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FineLinen

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iu
 
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Lazarus Short

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Depends on how he chooses to rule. And obviously he has not chosen to force anyone to obey.

Maybe not so obviously... But wait - there's more!

Here is one of many things I found in the KJV about God the Refiner:

Ezekiel 21:31 and 22:20 compare God’s wrath to fire. Verses 22:18-22 show God as a Refiner of men -

“...the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver...Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you. Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof. As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you.”

We see God here as a refiner, and His people as base metals – as only “the dross of silver.” But the end of the process is that they have become silver, or at least God seems to hint at it. We see here that God’s fury and wrath are only expressions of how He refines, not an attitude of cruelty or eternal hatred toward mankind.
 
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DennisTate

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If they rejected God why should they have that glory?

Howard Storm rejected God until his near death experience but since that profound event he has been very zealous to reach the lost with his testimony.

 
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renniks

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Maybe not so obviously... But wait - there's more!

Here is one of many things I found in the KJV about God the Refiner:

Ezekiel 21:31 and 22:20 compare God’s wrath to fire. Verses 22:18-22 show God as a Refiner of men -

“...the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver...Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you. Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof. As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you.”

We see God here as a refiner, and His people as base metals – as only “the dross of silver.” But the end of the process is that they have become silver, or at least God seems to hint at it. We see here that God’s fury and wrath are only expressions of how He refines, not an attitude of cruelty or eternal hatred toward mankind.
You are trying to stretch the passage into saying something way beyond what it implies. To be refined, one must submit to the refiner.
 
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FineLinen

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You are trying to stretch the passage into saying something way beyond what it implies. To be refined, one must submit to the refiner.

Superior Plan A=

"So will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you. Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof. As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you.”

Dismal Alternative=

We the fallen sons of Adam1 must submit to the Refiner of all refiners.
 
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Lazarus Short

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You are trying to stretch the passage into saying something way beyond what it implies. To be refined, one must submit to the refiner.

As Fine Linen finely points out, the passage I quoted said NOTHING about the consent of those melted...and then you state that I am "stretch[ing] the passage." Oi.
 
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renniks

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Superior Plan A=

"So will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you. Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof. As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you.”

Dismal Alternative=

We the fallen sons of Adam1 must submit to the Refiner of all refiners.
That worked out well for the 24,000 people God killed didn't it?
So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the LORD’s anger burned against them. 4 The LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.” 5 So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your people who have yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.”
 
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renniks

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That worked out well for the 24,000 people God killed didn't it?
So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the LORD’s anger burned against them. 4 The LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.” 5 So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your people who have yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.”
And you know what, there's more! God's anger cooled because of one man's actions. Maybe God isn't the unmoved mover after all.
"The LORDsaid to Moses, 11 “Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites. Since he was as zealous for my honor among them as I am, I did not put an end to them in my zeal. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites."
 
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renniks

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As Fine Linen finely points out, the passage I quoted said NOTHING about the consent of those melted...and then you state that I am "stretch[ing] the passage." Oi.
You must be a comedian! Those chapters are all about God reacting to men's evil actions.
"This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You city that brings on herself doom by shedding in her midst and defiles herself by making idols, 4 you have become guilty because of the blood you have and have become defiled by the idols you have made. You have brought your days to a close, and the end of your years has come. Therefore I will make you an object of scorn" to the nations and a laughingstock to all the countries."
Those who chose wrong got destruction. Those left over may have been refined. But it seems they had to learn this lesson over and over again, and really they hadn't even learned it by Jesus' time.
 
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FineLinen

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Facts:

1. God is the God of Ephphatha. If you are deaf and blind then you are a prime candidate for Him.

2. Our Heavenly Lord also kills and makes alive. Nothing is difficult for Him!

3. God not only kills and makes alive, He breaks to pieces. If our pieces stiill resemble our old shape, He is the Master Contriter: He grinds to powder.

He will complete His work in EVERY last one!
 
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FineLinen

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The Offer

Imagine this scenario. An automobile manufacturer builds a vehicle model which it hopes will become a great success. During testing, however, it becomes apparent that the car suffers from a severe design flaw and would pose an imminent danger to the public were it released for sale. Instead of correcting the flaw, the manufacturer decides it has a better idea; it mentions the flaw on page 122 of the owner’s manual and explains there how the owner can have the defect corrected at the nearest dealership “free of charge”.

Does it appear rather lopsided that the vehicle is sold to unsuspecting customers with little if any mention of the design defect? Does it appear rather absurd that the responsibility for discovering the dangerous defect and having it corrected falls upon the buyer, when the builder could have fixed the problem before taking the car to market?

Imagine this scenario.

Because of the sin of our forefather, Adam, we all inherit sin and mortality. None of us are tested as he was, in order to see if we will be a righteous person or a sinner; we are all given mortality. Our choices have nothing to do with our present condition as sinners; we are born that way.

As for salvation from sin and death, that will depend on finding the proper message and acting on it in an effective manner; otherwise the condition we inherit at birth will be our everlasting downfall.

Does it appear rather lopsided that the condemnation is universal and our choice has nothing to do with it, but our salvation from that condemnation requires our active participation? Does it appear rather absurd that the responsibility for obtaining salvation depends, in the final analysis, upon each individual, while we re in no way responsible for our needing that salvation in the first place? Doesn’t
it seem strange that perdition is an inherited condition, while salvation is only an “offer” made to those fortunate enough to stumble upon it?

Fact is, salvation is not an offer we happen upon; it’s a gift.

And a Savior is One Who saves. In 1 Timothy 4:9-11, we read, “Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome (for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.” God is the Savior of all mankind, for salvation is the destiny of all. 1 Cor. 15:20-28; 1 Tim. 4:10; Jn. 12:32; Col. 1:20; Eph. 1:10; Rom. 5:18, 19; Phil. 2:9-11.

God is the Savior of believers especially because He prefers some from the beginning for salvation now and during the eons of the eons (2 Thes. 2:13; Rev. 20:4, 5). Others are vessels of indignation, as indicated in Romans 9, and will not be saved until the consummation mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:24.

Salvation is not an “offer”; God enlightens all, at the time He chooses. John 1:9-13.

– Kenneth Larsen-
 
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FineLinen

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Dean Johnson >>>

Will All Be Saved?

Adam1= ALL "made sinners"

Last Adam, the Lord Lesous ALL "made righteous".

Provisionally=

In a way that is true for the present time but could change.

Reconcile= Katallasso =

Properly denotes to change or exchange, or to change from enmity to friendship.

Reconciliation is what God accomplishes in the extension of His love & grace to sinful mankind in Jesus Christ.

The enmity is alone on our part. It was we who need to be reconciled to God, not God to us, and it is propitiation, which His righteousness and mercy have provided, that makes the reconciliation possible…

Strong link to Apokatallasso

To reconcile completely/ to change from enmity to friendship .

It is the Divine purpose to reconcile the all of ta panta through Christ unto Himself.
 
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FineLinen

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If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again. What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena. -Robert Ingersoll-

Jesus Christ holds the keys of death and hell & knows how to turn the keys!

 
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FineLinen

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All Things Are Of God -A.P. Adams-

There is no statement in the Bible, that was made by an apostle, that is more remarkable and even startling than this statement. When you think of it seriously, it seems as though Paul was very unguarded and careless in his language. We are apt to think that he ought to have modified and limited it in some way, such as for instance, all good things are of God.

But no, Paul makes the sweeping, unqualified statement, "All things are of (literally, out of) God." Furthermore, so important did Paul consider this truth that he repeats it over and over again. The direct statement is made no less than six times in the writings of the apostle. See Rom. 11:36; 1 Cor. 8:6, and 11:12; 2 Cor. 5:18; Eph. 1:11, and Heb. 2:10. Now was the apostle careless and a little too bold in these utterances, or did he mean just what he said, and are they true, taken full strength? I say, without any hesitation, yes, to the two latter questions. The more we learn of God's works and ways the more we shall understand that in a sense absolutely "all things are of God;" or in other words, as it has been often expressed God is in everything. We will notice a few passages that will set forth the Bible teaching on this point.

Says Christ, "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered." (Matt. 10:29,30). In Luke 12:6, we read, "Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God." Do you realize friend reader, the stupendous character of this statement? How many millions of sparrows think you are there in the world? And of course it is not sparrows alone that God cares for, but all creatures, not one of them is forgotten, and even the very hairs of your head are numbered. The great men of the earth manifest their greatness by their close attention to so called great things; the affairs of state, national interests, business ventures involving the risk of millions, vast philanthropic schemes, and such like matters of world-wide importance. These men generally have very little care, and pay very little attention to the common every-day affairs of life: But God, between whom and the greatest of all earth's great ones there is an infinite disparity, displays His greatness by caring for what would seem to be the most trivial interests of his creatures, like the numbering of the hairs of their heads, and taking notice of apparently the most unimportant events, like the falling of a single sparrow. Well may we exclaim with Faber, in view of such greatness,

O, God? thy loving greatness ever lies
Outside us like a boundless sea;
We cannot lose ourselves where all is home,
Nor drift away from thee.

Thus doth thy grandeur make us grand ourselves,
Thy goodness quells our fear;
Thy greatness makes us brave as children are
When those they love are near.

Continued Below>>>>

The Spirit of the Word - All Things Are Of God
 
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FineLinen

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Friends: An old Hymn has just been refreshed in me. It speaks of what the Father most glorioua is moving us to in the Reconciliation. His Will & our will made one.

My stubborn will at last has yielded
I would be Thine and Thine alone
And this a prayer, my lips are bringing
Lord, let in me Thy will be done.

Sweet will of God, still fold me closer
'Til I am wholly lost in Thee
Sweet will of God, still fold me closer
'Til I am wholly lost in Thee

I am tired of sin, footsore and weary
The dark some path hath dreary grown
But now a light has risen to cheer me
I find in Thee my star, my sun.

 
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Shrewd Manager

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Perhaps the most sacred remedy in our modern secular civil law is the principle of Restitutio in integrum, or restoration to health.

Restitutio ad integrum or restitutio in integrum is a Latin term which means restoration to original condition. It is one of the primary guiding principles behind the awarding of damages in common law negligence claims. The general rule, as the principle implies, is that the amount of compensation awarded should put the successful plaintiff in the position he or she would have been had the tortious action not been committed. Thus the plaintiff should clearly be awarded damages for direct expenses such as medical bills and property repairs and the loss of future earnings attributable to the injury (which often involves difficult speculation about the future career and promotion prospects).

Although monetary compensation cannot be directly equated with physical deprivation it is generally accepted that compensation should also be awarded for loss of amenities, reflecting the decrease in expected standard of living due to any injury suffered and pain and suffering. Damages awards in these categories are justified by the restitutio principle as monetary compensation provides the most practicable way of redressing the deprivation caused by physical injury.

Restitutio ad integrum - Wikipedia

Unfortunately, the best remedy that man has is financial compensation. With it, the injured party can buy healthcare and therapy to hopefully enable them to recover fully, or to assist as best as possible with any permanent disability.

But God's justice is better than man's. He is the Great Physician, and able to cure any and all ills (even death!) and to go to the heart of the matter, to lay the ax to the root of the problem.

So when God restores all things, will He do a better or worse job of it than man?
 
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FineLinen

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Perhaps the most sacred remedy in our modern secular civil law is the principle of Restitutio in integrum, or restoration to health.

Restitutio ad integrum or restitutio in integrum is a Latin term which means restoration to original condition. It is one of the primary guiding principles behind the awarding of damages in common law negligence claims. The general rule, as the principle implies, is that the amount of compensation awarded should put the successful plaintiff in the position he or she would have been had the tortious action not been committed. Thus the plaintiff should clearly be awarded damages for direct expenses such as medical bills and property repairs and the loss of future earnings attributable to the injury (which often involves difficult speculation about the future career and promotion prospects).

Although monetary compensation cannot be directly equated with physical deprivation it is generally accepted that compensation should also be awarded for loss of amenities, reflecting the decrease in expected standard of living due to any injury suffered and pain and suffering. Damages awards in these categories are justified by the restitutio principle as monetary compensation provides the most practicable way of redressing the deprivation caused by physical injury.

Restitutio ad integrum - Wikipedia

Unfortunately, the best remedy that man has is financial compensation. With it, the injured party can buy healthcare and therapy to hopefully enable them to recover fully, or to assist as best as possible with any permanent disability.

But God's justice is better than man's. He is the Great Physician, and able to cure any and all ills (even death!) and to go to the heart of the matter, to lay the ax to the root of the problem.

So when God restores all things, will He do a better or worse job of it than man?

Dear Shrewd: The mighty man of Spirit and life, George MacDonald, wrote a remarkable unspoken sermon over 100 years ago regarding justice that continues to lift my vision.

Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice

The Great Physician goes far beyond healing our wounds to taking our wounds into Himself. He not only restores all things, He takes what He restores into fresh avenues of unparalled dimensions of newness.

I make ALL new
 
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