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The Restitution Of All Things

Saint Steven

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Lots of people will be turned away because they believe with their minds but not thier hearts. Not everyone who says Jesus is Lord means he has made Jesus his Lord.
"On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’
But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws."
Well now. That's a curious thing.

How did you conclude that those who were prophesying in Jesus' name and casting out demons, believed only with their minds and not their hearts? It seems to me that it would require more than just an intellectual assent to the existence of God to cast out a demon and perform miracles. The text seems to indicate that a personal relationship was lacking.

Furthermore, the Apostle Paul says that "no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." Yet you claim they aren't saved?

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Saint Steven

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If he says "depart from me", how can you conclude they were saved?
I don't conclude that they were saved.
But it certainly required more than intellectual assent (shrug) to perform miracles.

So, what do we do to reconcile all these scriptures?
- One tells us that those who said, "Lord! Lord!", were sent away. (due to a lack of relationship) Therefore not "saved". (at least in the short-term)
- One tells us that no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.
- One tells us that those who acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord will be saved.
- One tells us that every tongue (on earth and in heaven and under the earth) will confess that Jesus is Lord.

How do we reconcile these scriptures?
 
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renniks

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I don't conclude that they were saved.
But it certainly required more than intellectual assent (shrug) to perform miracles.

So, what do we do to reconcile all these scriptures?
- One tells us that those who said, "Lord! Lord!", were sent away. (due to a lack of relationship) Therefore not "saved". (at least in the short-term)
- One tells us that no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.
- One tells us that those who acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord will be saved.
- One tells us that every tongue (on earth and in heaven and under the earth) will confess that Jesus is Lord.

How do we reconcile these scriptures?
I see no contradiction. Except it means a lot more than to acknowledge Jesus. Confess with mouth, believe in heart. Not believe it as a historical fact, but believe on it for the salvation of your own needy soul.
 
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Saint Steven

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I see no contradiction. Except it means a lot more than to acknowledge Jesus. Confess with mouth, believe in heart. Not believe it as a historical fact, but believe on it for the salvation of your own needy soul.
That does nothing to reconcile those scriptures. You have made the acknowledgment of Jesus Christ as Lord meaningless. (on earth and in heaven and under the earth) Meaningless. What's the point?

- One tells us that those who said, "Lord! Lord!", were sent away. (due to a lack of relationship) Therefore not "saved". (at least in the short-term)
- One tells us that no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.
- One tells us that those who acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord will be saved.
- One tells us that every tongue (on earth and in heaven and under the earth) will confess that Jesus is Lord.

How do we reconcile these scriptures?
 
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renniks

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That does nothing to reconcile those scriptures. You have made the acknowledgment of Jesus Christ as Lord meaningless. (on earth and in heaven and under the earth) Meaningless. What's the point?

- One tells us that those who said, "Lord! Lord!", were sent away. (due to a lack of relationship) Therefore not "saved". (at least in the short-term)
- One tells us that no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.
- One tells us that those who acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord will be saved.
- One tells us that every tongue (on earth and in heaven and under the earth) will confess that Jesus is Lord.

How do we reconcile these scriptures?
There is not one that tells us if we merely acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord we will be saved. Believing in Christ is far more than mere acknowledgement.
What contradiction do you see between the others?
The ones that were sent away obviously weren't true believers.
No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit...there have been heathens who preached under the Spirit's influence while they were not saved.
Yes, every tongue will confess to God's glory, but not to their own salvation.
 
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FineLinen

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There is not one that tells us if we merely acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord we will be saved. Believing in Christ is far more than mere acknowledgement.
What contradiction do you see between the others?
The ones that were sent away obviously weren't true believers.
No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit...there have been heathens who preached under the Spirit's influence while they were not saved.
Yes, every tongue will confess to God's glory, but not to their own salvation.
iu
 
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Saint Steven

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There is not one that tells us if we merely acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord we will be saved. Believing in Christ is far more than mere acknowledgement.
What contradiction do you see between the others?
The ones that were sent away obviously weren't true believers.
No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit...there have been heathens who preached under the Spirit's influence while they were not saved.
Yes, every tongue will confess to God's glory, but not to their own salvation.
We seem to be at an impasse.
I see obvious contradictions, and listed them. You see none.
There is nothing I could say at this point that hasn't already been said.
 
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SkyWriting

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FineLinen

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By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**** It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis
 
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FineLinen

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Yes, every tongue will confess to God's glory, but not to their own salvation.

Our two words for today are "perfunctory genuflections."

Every being, in every dimension of the heavens, the earth and the underworld bows IN the Name of Jesus. It is NOT "at" the sound of His Name but in union with the Name of all names!

Philippians%202-10%20At%20The%20Name%20of%20Jesus%20Every%20Knee%20Will%20Bow%20red.jpg


Universal homage=

Definition of UNIVERSAL

Definition of HOMAGE
 
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renniks

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the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis
Lewis wasn't a universalist.
"Some will not be redeemed. There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord’s own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason. If a game is played, it must be possible to lose it. If the happiness of a creature lies in self-surrender, no one can make that surrender but himself, though many can help him to make it, and he may refuse. I would pay any price to be able to say truthfully “All will be saved.” But my reason retorts, “Without their will, or with it?” If I say “Without their will” I at once perceive a contradiction; how can the supreme voluntary act of self-surrender be involuntary? If I say “With their will,” my reason replies “How if they will not give in?”. . .

Read more: C. S. Lewis was not a Universalist (hell, doctrine, believe) - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum
 
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FineLinen

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Some will not be redeemed.

The meaning of ta panta Take 2

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**** It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.
 
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FineLinen

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Irenaeus: (130 to about 200 A.D.) “Bishop of Lyons.” His nearness to the apostles makes his testimony most interesting. Irenaeus did not believe evil would last forever. In his treatise Against Heretics, he wrote in Book III, chap. 23, §6:”(1) Wherefore also He drove him (Adam) out of Paradise, and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some dare to assert, but because He pitied him and desired that he should not continue always a sinner, and that the sin which surrounded him should not be immortal, and the evil interminable and irremediable.—Irenaeus.

Theophilus, (160-181 A.D.) “Bishop of Antioch.” (3) And God showed great kindness to man in this, that He did not suffer him to continue being in sin forever; but, as it were by a kind of banishment, cast him out of Paradise, in order that, having by punishment expiated within an appointed time the sin, and having been disciplined, he should afterward be recalled.—Theophilus. To Autolycus, Book 2, chap. 26.

Clement of Alexandria, (190 A.D.) “Head of the catechetical school there. He speaks of having learned from a disciple of the Apostles.—Strom. lib. ii. His wide and various learning, and his sympathetic spirit combine to give special weight to his teaching.” (5) All men are Christ’s, some by knowing Him, the rest not yet. He is the Savior, not of some (only) and of the rest not (i.e., He is actually Savior of all) for how is He Lord and Savior if He is not Lord and Savior of all? But He is indeed Savior of those who believe…while of those who do not believe He is Lord, until having become able to confess Him, they obtain through Him the benefit appropriate and suitable (to their case). He by the Father’s will directs the salvation of all for all things have been ordered, both universally and in part, by the Lord of the universe; with a view to the salvation of the universe…But needful correction, by the goodness of the great overseeing Judge, through (by means of) the attendant angels, through various prior judgments, through the final (pantelous) judgment, compels even those who have become still more callous to repent.—Clement. Strom. lib. vii. pp. 702-6, Cologne, 1688.

Origen, (185-254 A.D.) “Pupil and successor of Clement of Alexandria, founded a school at Caesarea…the greatest theologian and exegete of the Eastern Church.” (7) But he that despises the purification of the word of God and the doctrine of the Gospel only keeps himself for dreadful and penal purifications afterward; that so the fire of hell may purge him in torments whom neither apostolical doctrine nor gospel preaching has cleansed, according to that which is written of being “purified by fire.” But how long this purification which is wrought out by penal fire shall endure, or for how many periods or ages it shall torment sinners, He only knows to whom all judgment is committed by the Father.—Origen. Commentary on Rom., Book 8, Chap. 11.

Eusebius of Caesarea, (265-340 A.D.) “Bishop of Caesarea in Palestine; friend of Constantine; the greatest of the early Church historians, wrote on Ps. 2:” (9) “The Son’s ‘breaking in pieces’ His enemies is for the sake of remolding them, as a potter his own work; as Jer. xviii. 6, says: i.e., to restore them once more to their former state.”–Eusebius. De eccles. theol. iii. 16.

Athanasius, (296-373 A.D.) “Called ‘the Great,’ ‘Father of Orthodoxy,’ ‘Pillar of Orthodoxy;’ Bishop of Alexandria and writer of many works; especially noted for defending the deity of our Lord.” (11) “While the devil thought to kill one he is deprived of all cast out of Hades, and sitting by the gates, sees all the fettered beings led forth by the courage of the Savior.”—Athanasius. De pass. et cruce Darn.

Gregory Nazianzen, (330-390 A.D.) “President of the second great Ecumenical Council, was considered the most learned bishop in one of the most learned ages of the Church.” (13) “Until He loosed by His blood all who groan under Tartarean chains.”—Carm. xxxv. (ed. Lyons, 1840.) “Today salvation has been brought to the universe to whatsoever is visible and whatsoever is invisible…(today) the gates of Hades are thrown open.”—Or. xlii. “Adam receives death as a gain, and (thereby) the cutting off of sin; that evil should not be immortal: and so the vengeance turns out a kindness, for thus I am of opinion it is that God punishes.”—Nazianzen. Orat. xli

Ambrose, (340-397 A.D.) “Bishop of Milan; converted Augustine by his preaching; the Father of Latin hymnology; reproduced many of the writings of the Greek Fathers.” (15) The mystery of the Incarnation is the salvation of the entire creation…as it is elsewhere said, “the whole creation shall be set free from the bondage of corruption”…So the Son of Man came to save that which was lost, i.e., all, for as in Adam all die, so, too, in Christ shall all be made alive. The subjection of Christ consists not in few, but in all (becoming obedient)…Christ will be subject to God in us by means of the obedience of all…(then) when vices having been cast away, and sin reduced to submission, one spirit of all people, in one sentiment, shall with one accord begin to cleave to God, then God will be All in All.—Ambrose. De fide lib. v. 7.

Didymus, (380 A.D.) “The last distinguished head of the school of Alexandria, Didymus, surpassed all of his day in knowledge of the Scriptures.” says S. Jerome. He argues, “divine correction (even vengeance), and promise, have the same object in view.”—Adv. Man. ch. xviii. (17) Also “God ‘destroys liars, so far as they are liars.’—In Ps. v. 6. [Christ] ‘descends to Hades and brings back the souls, there detained on account of their sins.’”—Didymus. In Ps. lxxi. 20. See, too, De Trin. lib. iii 21, &c.

Gregory of Nyssa, (332-398 A.D.) “A leading theologian of the Eastern Church and one of the most prominent figures in the second great Church Council which practically established the orthodoxy of the Nicene Creed.” (19) The Divine judgment does not as its chief object cause pain to those who have sinned, but works good alone by separating from evil, and drawing to a share in blessedness. But this severance of good from evil causes the pain (of the judgment). In other words, the penalty is the cure; it is merely the unavoidable pain attending the removal of the intruding element of sin.—Gregory. Dialogue of the Soul and Resurrection.

Jerome, (340-420 A.D.) “Devoted to Scripture study; revised the old Latin translations and translated the Old Testament from Hebrew into Latin of the New Testament. Allin stated he found nearly 100 passages in his works indicating Jerome sympathized with the ‘larger hope.’” (21) “When the Psalmist says, ‘Your enemies, O God, shall perish,’…every man who has been Your enemy shall hereafter be made Your friend; the man shall not perish, the enemy shall perish.”—Jerome. In Ps. xcii. 9.

Hillary, (354 A.D.) “Hillary, Bishop of Poictiers, is considered one of the champions of orthodoxy.” (23) “The whole human race, who are one, are the one lost sheep, which is destined to be found by the Good Shepherd.”—Hillary.

Titus, (364 A.D.) “Bishop of Bostra. Caillou, describes as ‘the most learned among the learned bishops of his age, and a most famous champion of the truth.’ S. Jerome reckons him as one of those, in whom you are at a loss whether to admire most, their learning or their knowledge of Holy Scripture.” (25) The very pit itself is a place of torments and of chastisement, but is not eternal. It was made that it might be a medicine and help to those who sin. Sacred are the stripes which are medicine to those who have sinned. “Therefore we do not complain of the pits (of hell)—abyssis—but rather know that they are places of torment, and chastisement, being for the correction (amendment of those who have sinned.”—Titus Adv. Man. lib. i. 32.

Diodorus, (378 A.D.)“Bishop of Tarsus…noted for untiring zeal in defense of the Nicene Faith.” (27) “For the wicked there are punishments not perpetual…according to the amount of malice in their works…The Resurrection, therefore, is regarded as a blessing not only to the good but also to the evil.”—Diodorus. ASSEM. Bibl. Or. iii. p. 324. (28) Theodore of Mopsuestia, (407 A.D.) “The crown and climax of the school of Antioch…called the ‘Master of the East’ from his theological eminence.” Dorner. ( Pers. of Christ, i. 50). (29) “Who is so great a fool as to think, that so great a blessing can be to those that arise, the occasion of endless torment?”—Frag. Ex. lib. cont. pecc. orig. “All have the hope of rising with Christ, so that the body having obtained immortality, thenceforward the proclivity to evil should be removed.” [God] “recapitulated all things in Christ…as though making a compendious renewal, and restoration of the whole creation, through Him…Now this will take place in a future age, when all mankind and all powers (virtues) possessed of reason, look up to Him, as is right, and obtain mutual concord and firm peace.”—Theodore. In Eph. i. 10

Cyril of Alexandria, (412 A.D.) “He (Cyril) describes Christ as having spoiled Hades, and ‘left the devil there solitary and deserted.’—Hom. Pasch. vii. And again, ‘Christ, wandering down even to Hades, has emptied the dark, hidden, unseen treasuries.’”—Glaphy in Gen. lib ii. (31) “For when death devoured Him who was the Lamb on behalf of all, it vomited forth all men in Him and with Him…Now when sin has been destroyed, how should it be but that death, too, should wholly perish?”—Cyril. In S. Jno. i. 29.

Maximus of Turin, (422 A.D.) “Christ carried off to heaven man whose cause He undertook, snatched from the jaws of Hades mankind.”—Maximus. In Pent. Horn. ii.

Theodoret, (423 A.D.) “Bishop of Cyrus…perhaps the most famous, and certainly the most learned teacher of his age; uniting to a noble intellect a character and accomplishments equally noble.” (34) “After His anger, God will bring to an end His judgment; for He will not be angry unto the end, nor keep His wrath to eternity.”—Theodoret. In Is. xiii. (35) “He shews here the reason for punishment, for the Lord, the lover of men, torments us only to cure us, that He may put a stop to the course of our iniquity.”—Theodoret. Hom in Ezech. cap. Vi. vers 6.

Peter Chrysologus, (433 A.D.) “Bishop of Ravenna.” (37) On the parable of the hundred sheep he said, “That the one lost sheep represents ‘the whole human race lost in Adam,’ and so the Good Shepherd ‘follows the one, seeks the one, in order that in the one He may find all, in the one He may restore all.’”—Chrysologus. Ser. clxviii.
 
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renniks

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The meaning of ta panta Take 2

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**** It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

Those that believe in Universal Salvation believe that while many are not saved in this life (ie they continue to live sinful lives rejecting Jesus' sacrifice), come the resurrection and the life to come EVERYONE will find that Jesus has reconciled them to God 'automatically' because of the cross and will thus find salvation. So, it matters not in terms of the final salvation whether a person was a life long Satanist, a Hitler, a child molester, a serial unrepentant murderer... It's all ok in the end - or so they say.


What Jesus said concerning the resurrection...

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

What Jesus said about the coming judgement of the nations...

Matthew 25:41-46 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; (42) for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; (43) I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' (44) "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' (45) "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' (46) "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



What the Apostle Paul said about the judgement when Jesus returns...

2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, (7) and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, (8) dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. (9) These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (10) when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (27) but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

What John recorded concerning the outcome of the judgement to come...

Revelation 20:11-15 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. (12) And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (14) Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (15) And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

What John recorded concerning some of Jesus' last words in Revelation...

Revelation 21:6-8 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. (7) "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. (8) "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
 
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FineLinen

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The five qualifications for "everlasting punishment/aionios kolasis" according to the Master of Reconciliation =

I was hungry and you gave me no meal,

I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

I was homeless and you gave me no bed,

I was shivering and you gave me no clothes,

Sick and in prison, and you never visited.

VastDopeyGermanpinscher-small.gif
 
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Lazarus Short

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Lewis wasn't a universalist.
"Some will not be redeemed. There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord’s own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason. If a game is played, it must be possible to lose it. If the happiness of a creature lies in self-surrender, no one can make that surrender but himself, though many can help him to make it, and he may refuse. I would pay any price to be able to say truthfully “All will be saved.” But my reason retorts, “Without their will, or with it?” If I say “Without their will” I at once perceive a contradiction; how can the supreme voluntary act of self-surrender be involuntary? If I say “With their will,” my reason replies “How if they will not give in?”. . .

Read more: C. S. Lewis was not a Universalist (hell, doctrine, believe) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

Lewis, like so many Christians, gives way too much weight to mere human will. Does God's Will not prevail? Of course it does!
 
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renniks

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Lewis, like so many Christians, gives way too much weight to mere human will. Does God's Will not prevail? Of course it does!
Not according to God.
"Has not My hand made all these things?’ 51You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did. 52Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One. And now you are His betrayers and murderers—…"
 
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Lazarus Short

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"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

Those that believe in Universal Salvation believe that while many are not saved in this life (ie they continue to live sinful lives rejecting Jesus' sacrifice), come the resurrection and the life to come EVERYONE will find that Jesus has reconciled them to God 'automatically' because of the cross and will thus find salvation. So, it matters not in terms of the final salvation whether a person was a life long Satanist, a Hitler, a child molester, a serial unrepentant murderer... It's all ok in the end - or so they say.


What Jesus said concerning the resurrection...

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

What Jesus said about the coming judthe lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." gement of the nations...

Matthew 25:41-46 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; (42) for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; (43) I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' (44) "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' (45) "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' (46) "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



What the Apostle Paul said about the judgement when Jesus returns...

2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, (7) and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, (8) dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. (9) These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (10) when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (27) but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

What John recorded concerning the outcome of the judgement to come...

Revelation 20:11-15 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. (12) And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (14) Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (15) And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

What John recorded concerning some of Jesus' last words in Revelation...

Revelation 21:6-8 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. (7) "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. (8) "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Key words in Scriptures you used:

God's wrath

resurrection of damnation

eternal fire

eternal punishment

eternal destruction

but have you looked at what words in the original languages these are translated from? I have, and I found bias, bad translation, and translation to more emotionally-loaded words. I find in particular, that the KJV and its related versions, are Bible versions of fear.

How about this one: "...the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Yes, the Lake of Fire is identified as "the second death," not as Hell. Do you know where the term "Hell" even comes from? Do you know that fire and brimstone (sulfur, btw) are cleansing agents? Yes, NOT punishing agents, as the baptism of fire, just like the baptism of water, is a cleansing from God. Sulfur/brimstone was a common fumigant back in those days, as anyone reading about it back then would know.

Yet, it is we Universalists who are constantly accused of twisting the Scriptures.
 
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