The replacement

[Frogster]

We are definitely a wild bunch ... no wonder God chose the Israelites to represent His people, faults and all, they were the best of the bunch of human families.. at least they were keepers of the oracles of God.. one thing they got right.. had some righteousness about them to even have a few who got excellent marks from God and are recorded in scripture for their righteousness.

Ummmmm..balance my dear sister, all who are in adam were pretty much the same creation.

2:24 For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”



9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

 

[visionary]

Ummmmm..balance my dear sister, all who are in adam were pretty much the same creation.

2:24 For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”



9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

 

[Frogster]

We agree.

Tell me if you agree with this?


In the sinful Adamic creation, who had sin come to full fruition, under law, went to the cross, rom 6:6, with sin, flesh, and the law all wrapped up in it, and then we were raised up out of that old sinful creation, as a new creation, 2 Cor 5:17, that God made, doesn't that show that the law was for the old dead creation, dead people, having served it's purpose, in the dead flesh?

Since the law was added to increase sin, in the flesh, in Adam, rom 5, why do we need law, in the new creation, that has no sin in it, since we are raised like Christ, who has no sin? Rom 6:10-11.

Isn't the law for dead people?

 

[visionary]

We agree.

Tell me if you agree with this?


In the sinful Adamic creation, who had sin come to full fruition, under law, went to the cross, rom 6:6, with sin, flesh, and the law all wrapped up in it, and then we were raised up out of that old sinful creation, as a new creation, 2 Cor 5:17, that God made, doesn't that show that the law was for the old dead creation, dead people, having served it's purpose, in the dead flesh?

Since the law was added to increase sin, in the flesh, in Adam, rom 5, why do we need law, in the new creation, that has no sin in it, since we are raised like Christ, who has no sin? Rom 6:10-11.

Isn't the law for dead people?

Draw a line in the sand, tell all dead people walking to stay on one side, while the others who have declared there is no line to stay on the other side.

 

[Frogster]

Draw a line in the sand, tell all dead people walking to stay on one side, while the others who have declared there is no line to stay on the other side.

A+ for creativity, d- for rebuttal power.

 

[RND]

Go to Romans 11, it explains everything in full HD (1080p).

"And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either." Romans 11:17-21

Some of the Jews who did not believe in Jesus Christ were broken off from the tree, and the gentiles (who believe in Jesus Christ) were grafted in.

Which is still the case today. Most Jews that I know do not accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah in spite of all the evidence He came on time exactly as prophesied.

How does a Jew get the Holy Spirit in there lives and are they saved without it?

 

[RND]

They experienced an atribute of God, grace, but no one was under the reign of grace until Christ.

If one were to experience an attribute of God would that indicate a consistent nature of God? The Torah and Tanakh are crammed full of stories of grace and mercy.

 

[Frogster]

If one were to experience an attribute of God would that indicate a consistent nature of God? The Torah and Tanakh are crammed full of stories of grace and mercy.

The reign of grace, did not come until Christ.

 

[Lion King]

Which is still the case today. Most Jews that I know do not accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah in spite of all the evidence He came on time exactly as prophesied.

How does a Jew get the Holy Spirit in there lives and are they saved without it?

The LORD has hardened Isreal's hearts because of their disobedience until the full number of gentiles comes to Jesus Christ. God's mercy will surely come upon Israel when the time comes....

 

[Lion King]

What does it mean the abide in Christ? It is the very partaking of The Holy Eucharist. Where else can we do that? Surely we know that Christ desired to draw us together...??? Some will say... what does The Holy Eucharist do? And I would turn and point to all those who are gathered.

Nonbelievers are cast into the fire. The only thing that counts is are those who became Christian and no longer Jew.

The Gentiles are grafted in, becoming Christian and no longer Gentile.

The only thing remaining is Christian.

The Church contains all of these. The Church is what Christ established. The Church becomes part of heaven when The Holy Eucharist is being prepared and served.

The Church... both Earthly and Heavenly are Israel.

Forgive me...

Be careful there OrthodoxyUSA, otherwise you are in for the suprise of your life once our LORD comes for His people....

 

[visionary]

The LORD has hardened Isreal's hearts because of their disobedience until the full number of gentiles comes to Jesus Christ. God's mercy will surely come upon Israel when the time comes....

I think the shift from gentiles back to Israel has happened.. and we will witness the breath of life brought back into those bones and flesh that the Lord is stitching together in the people of God.. His Chosen Ones.

 

[RND]

The reign of grace, did not come until Christ.

The reign of grace started in the Heavenly Courtyard. Grace and mercy are who God is. He can't help but be merciful and gracious.

 

[RND]

The LORD has hardened Isreal's hearts because of their disobedience until the full number of gentiles comes to Jesus Christ. God's mercy will surely come upon Israel when the time comes....

Um, an oven will melt a pound of butter and harden a pound of clay. The time of the gentiles came when the Gospel went out to them and since that time there have been plenty of Jews with hearts of butter and not clay.

Read Romans 1 for goodness sake. God gives people over to what they desire and want. If they don't want Him he doesn't get in the way but He always knocks at the door of their heart. Oy vey!

 

[Lion King]

.

 

[Lion King]

Um, an oven will melt a pound of butter and harden a pound of clay. The time of the gentiles came when the Gospel went out to them and since that time there have been plenty of Jews with hearts of butter and not clay.

Read Romans 1 for goodness sake. God gives people over to what they desire and want. If they don't want Him he doesn't get in the way but He always knocks at the door of their heart. Oy vey!

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27

Israel will be saved for the sake of the patriarches (the root is holy). God will never withdraw His promise that He made with Israel, even though most of Israel has turned away from God. The LORD is true and never goes baqck on His word.

 

[Lion King]

I think the shift from gentiles back to Israel has happened.. and we will witness the breath of life brought back into those bones and flesh that the Lord is stitching together in the people of God.. His Chosen Ones.

Unfortunately, Israel hasn't turned back to the LORD yet. They do not believe that The Messiah came and went already, why do you think they still place themselves "under the Torah"?

Although the Law was fulfilled by the LORD, and now we live by Spirit (the Law writtten on tablets in our hearts), they still haven't changed. This is why the LORD said this:

"Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:21-24

Isreal still lives by the covenant given to them at Mt Sinai, although it was only supposed to be temporary until the coming of the Messiah. What they fail to realise is that a New Covenant is already in place, and with a different covenant comes a change in the law:

“Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,says the LORD." Jeremiah 31:31-32

 

[RND]

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27

Israel will be saved for the sake of the patriarches (the root is holy).

Again, who is Israel? God can raise a whole generation children from stone 'amember?

God will never withdraw His promise that He made with Israel, even though most of Israel has turned away from God.

That's right! Those that turn away from God have hardened their hearts to Him. It's not God's doing its theirs.

The LORD is true and never goes baqck on His word.

More truth! Yet if someone wants to reject Him weather they be with Jewish blood coursing through their veins or gentile they will obviously then choose to reject Him. It's not a "God problem" its a "people problem". There will no one in heaven that doesn't want to be there.

 

[Lion King]

RND, just read Romans 11.

With the way you think Israel is Christ, you definitely need to read it.

 

[RND]

RND, just read Romans 11.

With the way you think Israel is Christ, you definitely need to read it.

I've read it many times. God doesn't save people based on blood He saves people based on their willingness to be saved, to obey, to listen and to follow.

Just because one is born Jewish and lives in Israel no more guarantees their salvation than Buddha can.

Romans says some native branches were "broken off". Have you found one verse that says those native branches were grafted back in? I haven't.

 

[RND]

RND, just read Romans 11.

With the way you think Israel is Christ, you definitely need to read it.

Who is Israel? If you accept Jesus you are an Israelite by adoption.


Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,



Eph 2:19 ¶ Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


By adoption. Everyone.