The Religious Method

[AV1611VET]

It's also an example of unspeakable cruelty.

What is?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What is?

Knowing but refusing to reveal to cure for the world's many debilitating diseases ("It means He doesn't tell you how to cure disease.").

 

[AV1611VET]

Knowing but refusing to reveal to cure for the world's many debilitating diseases ("It means He doesn't tell you how to cure disease.").

Please set the clipboard down and listen carefully.

Advanced scientific knowledge ... knowledge meant for a future dispensation ... given beforehand ... will only make things worse ... not better.

Consider the prophecies He did give.

The scientists took them with a grain of salt, and Israel ended up going into captivity; not once, but twice.

And besides, wouldn't giving the prevention/cure for a disease defeat the purpose of sending the disease in the first place?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Please set the clipboard down and listen carefully.

Advanced scientific knowledge ... knowledge meant for a future dispensation ... given beforehand ... will only make things worse ... not better.

So when we develop vaccines that save millions, cures that save billions, we're making things worse? You're old enough to remember people in iron lungs; do you really think it's better to inflict polio on people and confine them to those machines, than to eradicate the disease altogether?

Consider the prophecies He did give.

The scientists took them with a grain of salt, and Israel ended up going into captivity; not once, but twice.

And besides, wouldn't giving the prevention/cure for a disease defeat the purpose of sending the disease in the first place?

You're telling me that God sent disease? And you wonder why people are atheists. What possible purpose could justify this:

 

[AV1611VET]

So when we develop vaccines that save millions, cures that save billions, we're making things worse?

Did I say that?

Let's try this from another angle, scientist.

You expect God to have written anachronistic cures into His Word for diseases from the future?

When the proper time comes, the Holy Ghost (remember Ontological Subordination, scientist?) will equip a scientist (or scientists) with the proper path to knowledge to find a cure for whatever ails someone.

(Assuming a cure is even on His agenda.)

And for your information, this is going to get worse as we approach the end of the end times.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Did I say that?

"Advanced scientific knowledge ... knowledge meant for a future dispensation ... given beforehand ... will only make things worse ... not better."

If God hasn't given us the knowledge, but we develop it ourselves, then we've got knowledge meant for a 'future dispensation'.

Let's try this from another angle, scientist.

You expect God to have written anachronistic cures into His Word for diseases from the future?

Not at all. I would expect him to snap his fingers and make the diseases vanish.

When the proper time comes, the Holy Ghost (remember Ontological Subordination, scientist?) will equip a scientist (or scientists) with the proper path to knowledge to find a cure for whatever ails someone.

And in the meantime, millions of people must suffer and die because God is twiddling his thumbs. One wonders why an all-powerful being has to wait for anything.

(Assuming a cure is even on His agenda.)

And if it's not, what does that say about God? What does that say about human endeavours to cure disease?

And for your information, this is going to get worse as we approach the end of the end times.

So people have been saying every time there's a bump in the road, yet things have never been better. In the meantime, I'm going to spend my life helping develop new technology that actually helps people, which amusingly makes me more efficacious than God.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not at all. I would expect him to snap his fingers and make the diseases vanish.

Then your expectations are not God's expectations; and you can blaspheme Him all you want, but He is still going to have the final say in the end.

And in the meantime, millions of people must suffer and die because God is twiddling his thumbs.

No, millions of people must suffer and die because the one(s) chosen to find a cure for [whatever] was either aborted, or became an atheist beforehand and didn't get the proper help from the Holy Spirit in the fulfillment of his assigned task.

One wonders why an all-powerful being has to wait for anything.

Well, one can keep wondering, if one is bothered by it so much.

In the meantime, blaspheming and/or venting & ridiculing isn't going to get one anywhere.

In the meantime, I'm going to spend my life helping develop new technology that actually helps people, which amusingly makes me more efficacious than God.

You do that, and see how far you get without the Holy Spirit's assistance.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Then your expectations are not God's expectations; and you can blaspheme Him all you want, but He is still going to have the final say in the end.

He doesn't seem to have any say at all. Nowhere do we see any evidence that God even exists, let alone has any impact on the world. The rain falls on the just and the unjust, the atheist and the theist.

No, millions of people must suffer and die because the one(s) chosen to find a cure for [whatever] was either aborted, or became an atheist beforehand and didn't get the proper help from the Holy Spirit in the fulfillment of his assigned task.

So God only lets Christians make medical breakthroughs? Fortunately, this is demonstrably false - Wikipedia has a list of just atheist scientists (with more contributions from Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc), proving that non-Christians can make medical discoveries. Francis Crick discovered the DNA molecule, George Beadle discovered the role genetics plays in cellular biochemistry, Ian Wilmut cloned the first mammal, Hermann Muller discovered the biological effects of radiation.

But you're saying that cures would be found if so-and-so had been a Christian. Why? Is God so petty as to inflict suffering on millions to spite someone who doesn't even believe he exists? Or is he so powerless that he can't just reveal the cure to one of the many Christian scientists?

What kind of God is flummoxed by a person's atheism?

Well, one can keep wondering, if one is bothered by it so much.

In the meantime, blaspheming and/or venting & ridiculing isn't going to get one anywhere.

Not at all - by raising these issues, people are more inclined to question dogma and throw off superstitious nonsense like homoeopathy, crystal healing, and prayer, and actually work on real, demonstrably effective cures.

You do that, and see how far you get without the Holy Spirit's assistance.

Pretty far, as it turns out:

Science, not religion, cures diseases.

 

[AV1611VET]

The rain falls on the just and the unjust, the atheist and the theist.

... Reverse parallelism employed?

 

[tonybeer]

And for your information, this is going to get worse as we approach the end of the end times.

We always seem to be approaching end times according to believers of all sorts. Any specific date always comes and goes.

Do you have a timeframe in mind, 1/10/100/1000 years?

 

[tonybeer]

... Reverse parallelism employed?

Atheists and more secular countries are statistically shown to be more moral/peaceful.

 

[AV1611VET]

We always seem to be approaching end times according to believers of all sorts. Any specific date always comes and goes.

Do you have a timeframe in mind, 1/10/100/1000 years?

How do you think I am? Harold Camping?

 

[AV1611VET]

Atheists and more secular countries are statistically shown to be more moral/peaceful.

Depends on your definition of "moral."

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Depends on your definition of "moral."

Less inclined to murder and rape is a generally accepted metric. But then, God considers a rapist who turns to Christ to be better than an atheist who doesn't...

 

[Johnnz]

Atheists and more secular countries are statistically shown to be more moral/peaceful.

Like the Soviet Union and China under Mao?

Germany in WW2 was driven be secular philosophies.

John
NZ

 

[Tomk80]

Like the Soviet Union and China under Mao?

Actually, quite far from those.

Germany in WW2 was driven be secular philosophies.

Three words: Gott mit uns

 

[TheBear]

Germany in WW2 was driven be secular philosophies.

Hitler thought he was carrying out the will of God. Go figure....

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Atheists and more secular countries are statistically shown to be more moral/peaceful.

Aside from North Korea and pretty much every single other Communist country which has ever existed.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Like the Soviet Union and China under Mao?

Actually, quite far from those.

How exactly?

 

[Tomk80]

Aside from North Korea and pretty much every single other Communist country which has ever existed.

I'm not sure you could actually call North Korea a secular country, given the myths and cult of personality surrounding Kim Il-Sung and the fact that he is still referred to as the countries "eternal leader", even though he died in 1994.